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What initially attracted me to my husband 20 years ago was the passion and dedication he had for his work. I still love to watch him work from across the room...when he's not aware I'm watching. He's very good at what he does. I've always admired how he never gives up until he finds a solution to the problem. I can remember I use to say to him how I wish I knew what it felt like to be so passionate about something. Little did I know that it wasn't passion, it was addiction. He is equal partners with his family in business that he built and runs. In his dysfunctional family, equal partners mean my husband does all the work while the rest of the family reap the benefits and take the credit for the success of the business. The "passion" that I saw is really a child like need/desire to please his parents. For them to say good job, we're proud of you and I love you. This will never ,ever happen. It's how they control him and keep him doing all the work.

DixieD, it's like reading my own story! Isn't that amazing? And in some way it makes me feel not so threatened by the A or the OW - I mean, yes that was bad and the repercussions are far reaching, but there's something bigger at play. I'm so glad your H has woken up to the truth of his addiction.

And scubachick, I'm the same way. I've always been drawn to my H's work ethic (?) and intelligence. But like you, I now see the little boy inside him who is working feverishly to redeem the failings of his father and dysfunctional family. Deep down, my H believed that "doing" rather than just "being" was necessary for the confirmation of his life. Such a sad and lost way of thinking. I wonder if your H feels somewhat trapped in his work situation. Can you imagine how freeing it would be for him to be somewhere else?

So much redemption has happened in these last 2 years of R. My choosing to stay with him because I love him, regardless of what he's done or is doing has been a surprise of grace. He gets it now - he doesn't have to accomplish anything to be OK. The only thing he has to do is be authentic, to be honest with himself, with me and with others. He is indeed a changed man - truly humbled by it all and determined to overcome these demons. There's an element of joy in watching him connect with his inner self, watching him find satisfaction from within rather than seeking it out there somewhere.

100%.

We were fine for 10+ years until he started a new, high powered, high stress job.

He managed to live this dual life for 15 months, but it took a toll on his health and our M was showing signs of suffering (I didn't have a clue why - I just thought he was obsessed with work.) He had turned into a royal a$$, lacked compassion, was distracted and irritable. Looking back, the period before and during the A, my fWH's personality changed. Not only did I not recognize him, I didn't like him.

^^ THIS!

I didn't like who he was at that job at all. But I thought he needed time to adjust. I got an offer for a job out of state that would only last a few months and I took it to give him time and space to acclimate to the new pressures he was under without me and our dog getting in the way (he always made me feel like I was vaguely pestering him).

After I left, the job really started not going well. COW stepped in and became his "yes" person and defender. The rest is history.

We even agreed on DDay if he had never taken that job, and if I never left, none of this would have happened.

Unfortunately it was too broken by the time I found out. And he was never good at admitting defeat or taking criticism. He wasn't able to admit he had screwed up his job and he wasn't willing to quit (my condition for R). He sacrificed me for the job and, shortly after that, I found out he was demoted anyway.

What a waste.

PhantomLimb, I'm so sorry it turned out that way for you. Dr. Barbara Killinger says that it's really difficult for workaholics to find their way out of their demise on their own. Because they lose so much of themselves over the course of their breakdown, it becomes next to impossible to change course. They go through such profound personality changes that are mostly subconscious and lose the ability for any insight. She says that without awareness, transformation and recovery from the cruel addiction can't begin. Often it takes a major health crisis or personal failure to rattle them enough to seek help. But even then, as in your case, that's still not enough. Your H couldn't take criticism or admit defeat because he was in such deep denial and had developed an unhealthy level of narcissism. His demotion is not surprising either. Many workaholics end up becoming inferior employees. Ambitious thinking ends up dominating all feelings and as a result, the ability to feel compassion and empathy for others atrophies.

Workaholism is truly a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde story. As you can attest, the workaholic ends up sacrificing everything, including themselves.

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm so sorry you had to experience it. It's incredibly tragic.

I was alone all the time.

Yep. My parents would visit each week (2 hours round trip) to help with cleaning the house, mowing our lawn, and other household task because WH worked so much that they felt like they needed to help me. I would be at a neighborhood park with the kids and the typically opening line to me was "Hi Ilinia, is WH working or traveling tonight?"

I do have to say that I wasn't a willing enabler. I fought it tooth and nail. I wanted him to be home, so we could be a family. I suggested we move to a smaller house, so he could take a less paying job. At the peak of our discussions, I would say that I wouldn't have had kids if this is what our life was going to look like. I hated it. I wanted to have a life WITH him and no matter how many times I would say we are out of balance or something has to give, he never recognized or saw that he was trapped in this cycle. He didn't see anything wrong with it.

the narcissistic workaholic spins a web that entangles and snares whoever and whatever he/she attaches to for self aggrandizement and security.

So true! WH has said the COW was only a "prop" in his fantasy-land. It is hard to understand how the man I married became/transformed into this man.

Maybe we need our own "I Can Relate" thread!

Thanks for starting this thread Kyrie, it has really help me to process more of the A reading about others who were in similar situations.

eta:

Another thing unique to the workaholic A: His identity was so tied to and associated with his work BUT he did the very thing that would blow up everything he had worked for. He risked his career, reputation, and his team's faith in him. These are things he prided himself on prior, but after the A he lost integrity with his team and leadership. It is such a strange dynamic.

[This message edited by ILINIA at 7:20 PM, January 25th (Saturday)]

ILINIA, thanks for your contributions! Some of our biggest fights, esp. during the A, was over his lack of help and involvement. He would get so bent out of shape and would say things like, you're too dependent on me! It was awful. My self esteem took a hit and I slipped into some serious depression. I felt the same way about the choice to have kids. So much grief during DD is realizing that all of those times were caused by his skewed perspective, his obsession and narcissism. And it makes me hate the OW all the more because she enabled it and claimed to be his friend. What kind of friend encourages those qualities? Just makes me sick.

I approached SI mods about opening this thread on the I Can Relate forum and they felt there would not be enough interest to carry it. If you and others find this discussion helpful, maybe it can eventually be moved there.

(((ILINIA))) Thank you for commiserating with me. It's helped me a bunch, too.

And it makes me hate the OW all the more because she enabled it and claimed to be his friend. What kind of friend encourages those qualities? Just makes me sick.

And encourages them to lie to us and also jeopardize the security and stability of the kids? Yeah, they are no prize either. I won't say more than that, but believe me I could go on and on about this topic!

Started reading Dr. Killinger and her opening paragraph spoke to me:

Workaholism is a soul-destroying addiction that changes people's personality and the values they live by. It distorts the reality of each family member, threatens family security and often leads to family break-up. Tragically, workaholics eventually suffer the loss of personal and professional integrity.

It is similar to what I had added above:

Another thing unique to the workaholic A: His identity was so tied to and associated with his work BUT he did the very thing that would blow up everything he had worked for. He risked his career, reputation, and his team's faith in him. These are things he prided himself on prior, but after the A he lost integrity with his team and leadership. It is such a strange dynamic.

I think I found what I am going to be reading tonight!

ETA: Kyrie - I think SBB was right that work was the first mistress. It is sad how we internalized being second on their list. As if that wasn't bad enough, then came the A and we became third and it went to a whole other level of being disregarded, disrespected, and misunderstood. Ahh, such a mess.

[This message edited by ILINIA at 8:04 PM, January 25th (Saturday)]

My WH was under intense pressure at work and I was resentful about the long hours, my WH coming home miserable. I wasn't the slightest bit interested in what was going on at the office. Unfortunately for me there was someone at work who was interested..

Very true ILINIA.

Because we were talking about this thread, my husband picked the Workaholic book off the shelf and started reading it. He's not comfortable posting on this thread himself, as a WS and risk triggering any BS, but he thinks this is a good/valid thread.

There is a quiz at the beginning of the book and he answered it as he would have answered it before and then as he feels now. He was 26/30 (if you are over 20 you are likely a workaholic) and now his ranking is a 9/30. Big difference. Even though he's recognized and changed his behavior it surprised him to see the numbers in black and white.

I see this author has other interesting books, Integrity: Doing the right thing for the right reasons and The Balancing Art: Rediscovering Feelings. Just curious, has anyone read her other books?

Kudos to the author for diving into this subject which doesn't get enough recognition.

DixieD, so glad you've added to the thread. That's just great news about your H's transformation. That's a big, big thing! He has certainly come a long way.

I discovered Dr. Killinger through Psychology Today. She wrote a monthly on-line blog for them about workaholism. I read her Workaholics book and my H read her Integrity book. We have the Balancing Act book, but haven't gotten to it, yet.

I so identified with Dr. K that I called her and corresponded with her. I felt like I was talking to my guru who was giving voice to my and my H's experience. Sadly, Dr. Killinger died this summer. She battled lymphoma for several years. I'm so glad that I reached out to her as she has been integral to our R.

ILINIA, I distinctly remember one blow up with my H during his A days - I said to him, You have a mistress! Your job is your mistress! Looking back, I remember he had such a look of shock on his face when I said that. In that instant, I'm sure he thought I had found out about the A and was confronting him. Obviously, his work had taken priority in his life. I just had no idea that it included another woman.

Girlietoo - ditto. That hurts, doesn't it?

By the way, Everybody, I'm in bed fighting the last days of the flu. That's why I'm writing so much - thanks for responding to my thread.

Another thing unique to the workaholic A: His identity was so tied to and associated with his work BUT he did the very thing that would blow up everything he had worked for. He risked his career, reputation, and his team's faith in him. These are things he prided himself on prior, but after the A he lost integrity with his team and leadership. It is such a strange dynamic.

Exactly! My husband defines himself through his business and how much money he makes. He thinks the only way to show someone you love them is to buy them nice things. I've told him a million times that nice things, fancy cars, yachts are nice and all and appreciate what a good provider he is but what good is all of that if your alone? He hasn't made it to a single football game in 3 years and our son is the starting quarterbook. The principal at my son's school thought I was a single mom and offered to spend time with my son! Our counselor thinks that when my husband finally gets it, that he is going to have a really hard time dealing with the fact that he missed out on our son's childhood. He only has one more year of high school left . Has anyone read the book, The man his mistook his wife for a hat? It's about workaholics.

Part of the reason I never worried about him working with women is because he had such rigid boundaries with employee's..especially female employee's. He wanted employee's to see him as perfect. He never showed any weakness or shared personal info. He use to get mad at me if I said he was sleeping when someone from work would call. like who doesn't sleep? So it shocked me that he would put himself in that position and jeopardize his business. He's convinced himself that no one knows about his EA and that she would never tell anyone. I told him he's kidding himself. People aren't blind.

This is a great thread. I was in a long term marriage and my XH had a very demanding and high powered job. I supported him for years by making his home life perfect, raising the kids, etc. so he could advance and he did, right o the top of his profession. He was also a very high functioning alcoholic. After Dday, he quit drinking. He would not however decrease his work load which was one of my conditions for R. As other posters have noted, these workaholics get respect , praise and admiration because of their hard earned success and it was no different in my case.My XH divorced me a few years ago, and now has even more success, more money than he ever needs, and for what? He will never be able to fill that hole by seeking something outside. He is getting ready to retire this year and my DD says he is really worried about it. I am happy to read that many of your H's have woken up and have changed their priorities in life. I so wish that would have been my story. FR

Me, too, faded. It's too bad that he's created his whole identity out of something that is getting ready to stop. It will be interesting to see what he does to cope or if he hits rock bottom. Some people develop serious health problems as they spiral out of control. So much adrenaline pumping through my husband did permanent damage to one of his vocal cords. Every time he speaks, he is reminded of what he sacrificed -- all for a biz that later went bankrupt. Such a sad waste.

It's the respectable addiction. In China they have a special name for it and the literal translation is death by work.

Just a thought: after our S/D, I blocked him from all social media to maintain NC. But I knew his photos of us were still on FB because they were still tagged on my profile (I got rid of 95% of his... Just kept the ones where I look cute! )

Anyway , friends eventually told me that those photos were still up and even his PROFILE photos up to 10 months after the D.

When they finally went down as his profile pics, guess what replaced them?

You guessed it-- aerial photos of the place where he works.

This idea that the job was the true mistress makes SO MUCH SENSE. That is the best way to describe how he treated his jobs around me for years. They always came first. Always. And I always got in the way because I made him take a step back.

He NCed OW easy. What I couldn't get him to do was NC the job. When we set up a MC and I asked him to take a leave to focus on us, the first thing he said? "Okay, but I'll have to bring work with me." (!?!?!) I told him leave the work at work and save our M or don't bother at all.

He stayed at work.

And you know, the biggest TT I got after DDay wasn't about OW. It was about the job. At one point as we were false R I warned him that he was shitting where he was eating with the A, it was already clear his other coworkers hated him and it was probably the case that the job was kind of doomed. I suggested he get out now, apart from me. He was less than a year in, so he could still claim it was just a bad fit if he applied elsewhere. I got a whole song and dance about how much he loved the job, how amazing he is at it, that he was about to get a huge promotion, etc etc.

Found out from a former coworker of his just this week that he got pushed out of his office shortly after that. Into a position he told me he never wanted.

And he hired OW as his assistant. What a genius.

And finally, when he went into IC, his number one compliant about me was that I kept him away from work by insisting he take breaks.

I think you hit on something so key here.

I'm going to jump in here. My H's A was also strictly "work" related. Started with an employee who needed mentoring and treated him like a God, as her marriage was failing. She was very needy but apparently that fed something in him. He has even said that is wasn't about the sex, and suspects that both of them were using the sex to get the validation. He tried, and mostly succeeded, to keep all contact during work hours and dalliances around work emergencies (medicine).

I had talked to him for years about how work was his top priority and he always denied it. He works long hours, with lots of call and is (was) on his phone at all hours (not typically with OW, though). He now admits that I was right all along and has readjusted his priorities. He even puts the phone down whenever possible!

The thing is, work was where he felt competent, powerful, in control. He was the boss, the MAN. He felt the opposite around intimacy and connection. It makes sense that he would want to do what made him feel good and avoid what made him feel inferior.

The OW was an extension of that, until she wasn't. Until she became demanding and wanted something like intimacy, which was not at all in the game plan.

Now he realizes that all that work really did not give him what he was seeking (and that the A just made it worse). Now that he is starting to be able to connect emotionally and feel attachment he is feeling more content and happy and has less to prove at work. Now he gets annoyed when work interferes with our time!

[This message edited by catlover50 at 5:39 AM, January 26th (Sunday)]

Another thing unique to the workaholic A: His identity was so tied to and associated with his work BUT he did the very thing that would blow up everything he had worked for. He risked his career, reputation, and his team's faith in him. These are things he prided himself on prior, but after the A he lost integrity with his team and leadership. It is such a strange dynamic

.

I have to quote this as well as it hits so close to home for me and our sitch. It so applied to everything going on with us. The more he spent at work the more his work became his "family". All his stories would be about the people around his work and if we went to dinner all he can talk about are stories about other people. Basically strangers to me and his children. His whole identity became about work. So why not have a "work wife" as well? Thats what I called her at the time....his work wife.

I can also relate to the above post because he would put everything into his work but then ALWAYS implode it some how. I even said one day after the A "why do you always seem to implode your whole life every 5-7 years?"

I can also relate to feeling alone ALL THE TIME.

It is true that I as the BS should have been the one to have the A as I was negleted and ignored and was left alone all the time. And I would complain and tell him I wanted him home and he wasn't around the kids enough and there was no support, etc....

When they finally went down as his profile pics, guess what replaced them?

You guessed it-- aerial photos of the place where he works.

I have to laugh about this because I can really relate and it's something me and my son still joke about. My husband's business involves boats. We stopped going on vacations years ago but when my son was between the ages of 4-7 we went on a cruise every summer. My husband would do all the video taping and record all the memories. All of our vacations videos show different boats. Boats at dock, boats at every port, boats we passed along the way and occasionally he'd turn the camera on our son. he's a sick man!

The thing is, work was where he felt competent, powerful, in control. He was the boss, the MAN. He felt the opposite around intimacy and connection. It makes sense that he would want to do what made him feel good and avoid what made him feel inferior.

The OW was an extension of that, until she wasn't. Until she became demanding and wanted something like intimacy, which was not at all in the game plan.

Yes, same here, Catlover. He had insecurities he could cover better through work and it was easier than life/emotions/relationships. He had no signs of withdrawal or pining over AP. He ended it and wanted it over.

During his affair, I thought he was still working all the time, but really he was spending time with AP. She was very demanding. Yet work still came first. He talked and thought about it constantly, because that's all he had, and she worshipped his God-like presence. That was her job.

At one point I said -- he was just like my alcoholic father and I was not going to be like my mother, so get your shit together. He broke down crying, saying he didn't want to be like my father. I also gave him the signs of burn-out and said -- you have all of them. He argued with me and pointed to some he disagreed with. Ok, whatever. The funny thing was, after dday he opened his wallet and showed me that he'd kept that piece of paper I gave him. So he didn't dismiss it completely. But he still kept his affair going for few months after that. He was a floundering addict who hadn't hit rock bottom yet.

He confessed when he realized our marriage was ending and he didn't want that. Right after he told me he'd had an affair he offered to quit his job, because even he knew that's where a major problem came from and he'd promised to cut back on work years earlier only to take on more. I didn't want him to quit his job for me. I wasn't sure we were going to stay married, so why quit his job. AP was not at workplace. His job became a distance 2nd and within 6 months of dday, he quit. Never missed it and was relieved to be away from it.

Kyrie, I'm sorry to hear Dr. Killinger passed away, but it's great that you got to correspond with her and get her help. I'll have to see if I can find her articles and other books. Thanks. ....and sorry you have the flu!

[This message edited by DixieD at 9:14 AM, January 26th (Sunday)]

Oh my, all I want to say is "me too, me too"! The story about changing the pictures on Facebook and only taking pictures of boats, I get it. I always assumed if WH got a tattoo it would be of his companies logo! How sad is that?!?! Or TTing with work! That hit home as well. Like many of you, I became the enemy because I was trying to get him to invest in his life verses his work. Silly me.

Kyrie - I hope you are feeling better! The flu isn't fun, but glad you decided to post, as it has been so helpful! I am sorry to hear about Dr. Killinger. I am relating to everything she says. It must have been a great experience to have her as a resource. She would be proud that you are sharing her work and helping others.

Last night WH and I read some of the articles from her blog and we found the 30 quiz questions on another site. I feel so validated and not like I was crazy. Things I have said for years or I have typed here on SI are almost verbatim on her blog!

Since the A I have been researching everything from sexual addiction, NPD, emotionally unavailable men, etc. I could see some of WH actions in each one of those, but none were a fit. It wasn't that I needed a diagnosis, but I just wanted more of an understanding. Reading this thread and reading her blog, I felt like all of you and Dr. Killinger knew my WH!

DixieD - WH took the quiz with the mindset he was in about a year ago. He scored a 26/30. We will give it a few months and see how his mindset has changed. Love that your WH has made a huge change. How far out are you from DDay?

Realitybites - After the A, I said something similar to WH like "If anyone should have had an A it should have been me. I was lonely and alone. Whenever I would reach out, you would shut me down or ignore me. I tried. You never tried."

The thing is, work was where he felt competent, powerful, in control. He was the boss, the MAN. He felt the opposite around intimacy and connection.

Catlover ^^^^After reading some of the articles last night, WH said that he is hoping that once he has been successful at managing his work life that it will open the door for compassion and empathy. This is big for me, because after the A and even now, I felt like he couldn't show/feel empathy or compassion. It seemed like he was trying, but he just couldn't. I would be so jealous of the men who cried with their BS, I felt like my WH was a robot. Since he could not show me this, I was mad and sad, but also saw it as a detriment to R.

Yes, yes, and yes! TEXT BOOK, y'all!!

And thanks for the laughs - the aerial photos on FB in place of family picts - cracks me up! Videos of boats from family vacations - I can so see it!

And I laughed out loud about the tattoo of the company logo! Oh my gosh, that is hysterical and so ACCURATE!

I mean, you have to laugh because the alternative is so much despair over these sadly addicted people.

The Breakdown Killinger outlines is amazingly accurate. I was able to go through each stage and note actual experiences with each one. I remember being really emotionally upset once and my H just looking at me with this perplexed look on his face. It just made me cry more! Zero compassion/empathy. Killinger helped me so much to understand how and why that happened. And I have to say, watching that compassion and empathy grow back has been like witnessing a miracle. Can't believe it's happening some days.

Oh, and one more thing - and I hope this doesn't trigger any of you. When I would push for details about the A and the times they were intimate, like, what did you talk about after you had sex? Did you share feelings or talk about some sort of future with each other? My H thought for a second and said, no, we mostly just talked about . . . work.

(That must have been so romantic for them )