SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So today 7 April (Sydney time) was my birthday. I agreed to go to dinner with WH. Why? I guess I was hoping for some real communication over a nice dinner. What I got was more confusion and anger from him...because he thinks I have drawn conclusions about why he engaged in the cybersex. He says he doesn't understand why...but he is angry at me for thinking that it's his "bit on the side". One moment he is admitting and agreeing that he cheated on me for over a year, and the next he is saying that he did it all with the intention of improving his own performance with me. Hmmm...in my mind you can't have it both ways. If you admit to cheating, then how can you also try to say you were doing it to improve your marriage????? Is it me, or is that a warped sense of logic?

True remorse for him would be accepting that his actions hurt you and taking steps to ensure it doesn't happen again. He is masking the real problems behind his anger. My first DD in 2008 I got similar reactions. He would stop but before too long go right back. Only in the past month has he admitted to being SA and is taking the necessary steps to heal himself. Good luck, only you can decide how much you can take.

As long as he is angry with you, because of his behaviors, then he's not showing remorse. Because it's still all about him and his ability to rugsweep and search for words that will placate you. He's actually not doing any actions that demonstrate that he's progressing in his understanding of what his actions, his decisions, have cost you.

I agree, he is not remorseful, he is just figuring out a way to get you to accept his behavior and keep him in your life.He acts like he wants the comforts of marriage without doing the work it takes to make a good marriage..

You were fortunate in that you were able to kick your WH out..It helps to have the space in your day to day life/mind to figure things out..

My WH hasn't stopped his behavior, blames me for why he cheats..

Refuses/refused to be kicked out of the house, I have tried to multiple times...

So now I am biding my time so I can have a better outcome in divorce..Our marriage also 38 years..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 3:15 PM, April 10th (Thursday)]

I also encountered denial when suggesting reasons that my WH had a secretive, solitary, sexual life that I did not know about (internet porn escalating to sex w/ a prostitute). Same as you, minus the anger. But WH has never displayed any anger- ever. He's just not volatile in nature. I have explained over and over to him, that for me, it's important that HE try to dig into himself to get to his real reasons. "I don't know....it was stupid" is not enough for me. So naturally, I read and read, and formulate my own hypothesis.

It's scary that he "doesn't know". How do you combat those unacceptable impulses if you don't know where they are coming from ? My WH also minimizes the facts about prostitution and pornography. He was so wrapped up in the fantasy that the illegality did not register with him. The likelihood of exposure to diseases did not register to him (and I brought up the reality if that cesspool that he went wading in over and over). That his sexual stimulation from the combination of pictures and fantasy, to the exclusion of me, was excused by him as 'pretty normal' behavior. I reiterated over and over that it isn't normal for me. His behavior should not be making me feel discarded, unattractive and not valuable.

It took a long, long time to break down his walls of justifying things that bring me so much pain. Keep hammering at it. Know that you know what is right for YOU.

Still very confused and upset.

April 16. I decided to be willing to be forgiving....told him I wanted a future together, but that forgiveness may take some time. He moved back in, and we have been going to counselling, and have been in what can only be described as a "honeymoon" phase...interspersed with my "reality checks" or "triggered interrogations".

He genuinely acts remorseful and has done everything I have asked of him so far. He has cried more in the past few months than ever in his life. He had confided some disturbing abuse that happened to him as a young boy, and the effects of feeling inadequate that followed it. I know he loves me. I can feel it. I can see it in his eyes. I really want to be able to move on...but questions keep coming up for me, and my own feelings of hurt, betrayal and not being good enough re-surface.

The problem I have is that the answers he gives to my questions are never quite the same. I do understand that the truth is a concept that has many sides to it. His truth today maybe slightly different to his truth tomorrow...(assuming he is being honest). I don't think he is trying to be difficult. Sometimes I even accept that he struggles to know or understand things himself. But when a new or different twist or turn comes up, I find myself asking more questions and finding it difficult to know what to believe and what to accept.

For example, he says that he began looking at the porn to get an idea of what other men were doing, and what they "had" (size) more than to look at the women. This he said, was because of the abuse he suffered as a child by a male family friend who was "well endowed", which caused him to question his own body and its value. He now admits that "it got out of hand" - referring to the profile on the dating site and the cybersex. My questions then were - "So what did you tell yourself as you were putting up a profile on an x-rated dating site?" "What were you looking for?" "What were you hoping to gain?" "Did you feel there was a need or desire that wasn't being fulfilled?"

But his answers only confuse me. "I wasn't looking for anything in particular...only at them." "I don't know what I wanted to gain...I was just filling in time." "No, I don't think it had anything to do with us, or that anything was missing from us."

I guess my fear is that perhaps as we have only ever had each other as partners, does he have a feeling of "missing out on variety"?

I still find it amazing that he can say "I didn't think what I was doing was hurtful." I cannot accept that. Why hide it? Why lie about it? If not for a sense of shame? Previously he has said he knew it was wrong...but kept doing it for over a year. What does that mean?

The latest question from me "You love me. You tell me I'm the only one for you - always have been, always will be the only one you ever want to touch and love and be with...so can you tell me what prompted the porn in the first place or what was the reason or why the need to look at it?"

The answer nearly made me sick. "I don't know. Isn't it something all men do?" My reply to that was "If porn is something all men do, and it leads to cybersex and/or physical sexual encounters with others, then what hope do women have for a lasting monogamous relationship with a man?...We'd better tell our daugthers and granddaughters never to trust any man, because no man deserves their trust!"...all I get from that is "no, no, no"

Previously he has used the word "curious" a lot. My question to that is "Why do you think you are curious?" I get no answer.

My gut feeling is that he does truly love me, but he lost his sense of "being a man" along the way. Not to make an excuses - (because there are none)...only me trying to get some level of understanding.. that somehow the loss of his business, the resulting bankruptcy, loss of jobs, loss of our house, living with the "secret" of childhood sexual abuse etc....built up in his mind but instead of coming to me, (the woman who has loved him throughout these life experiences, been there for him, never doubted him) he used the cheapest, most convenient way possible to stroke his own ego. He says he felt he had let me down, and needed to "make himself feel good". He says this was all about him, not me.

The result is that although I remain willing to forgive, I'm not sure it's really possible. I do love him but I see him differently and worry that he is damaged goods, and in his attempt to feel better about himself, he has damaged me and us. How can I ever trust him again? There is always a doubt, a feeling about whether he feels like he missed out on "sowing his wild oats". I feel so old, ugly and unattractive. I cannot possibly compete with all those perfect body images which are now in both our heads. Is there enough love and counselling in the world to fix my broken heart?

Sorry very long post...

My wife did the same thing. She claimed it was out of boredom - and I had multiple D-Days. However, it ultimately escalated to a full blown PA.

The extent of it was shocking. There was clearly a lot of fantasy - the lies she told men were outrageous. But make no mistake, it was infidelity and after a time she came accept it as such.

IMHO, you have got to have separate living arrangements with a WS who is into antonymous encounters(cybersex) if they are at all cooperative or if it is humanly possible for you to leave given your financial situation..

Either you force the WS out or leave yourself..Stay physically separated until he has proven that he has worked thru his issues to your satisfaction...He relapses, you kick him out again...

When my WS and I met with counselors, or even when we spoke alone about his why's for A, anonymous encounters, my WH was hostile, angry and blamed me for his behavior.

My WH has never found his way out of the fog, he denies that anything is wrong with his behavior and states that he did it to survive living with me..

The problem is , if we decide to live with our WH's we have to worry about their behavior escalating to something that destroys life as we know it and in a way that makes it difficult to recover..

I have made multiple attempts to kick my WH out but he refuses to leave..I can't afford to leave for the moment, I am a retiree who isn't healthy enough to work full time...I retired after 30 years of service at work so I live off of my pension..Bare bones budget....I am determined to find a careful way to leave this marriage, hopefully without destroying my livelihood in the process..My WH has NO pension..

But I feel like I am working against the clock..

Anonymous encounters, especially those that stem from porn and cyber sex usage can result in a bad very evil outcome for anybody who indulges, especially those who indulge frequently... I hope this doesn't happen with our WH's especially before we have had the chance to dodge the line of fire..

An arrest for contact with a minor, or an arrest for contact with the anonymous person who claims that the WH forcefully touched her, raped her etc... are a couple of the worries that come to my mind..

Please be careful if you have taken him back into your home/life

[This message edited by doggiediva at 3:22 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday)]

38years...

My H has the same issue, it's all been "virtual" and never a hookup (that I know of). The problem is that even if it's only virtual, how do I know it will not one day be physical? Not to mention, it's still VERY demeaning and humiliating! It's still breaking a vow! I've focused a lot on that, the vow. His vow was to keep himself only unto me...that doesn't say keep your PHYSICAL self, itself yourself. A virtual betrayal is still a betrayal of that vow.

After 4 times being caught, I'm done. My WS also know that it is wrong, and the only answer I get is "I don't know why I did it..." in 10 years that is the only answer I've ever got.

I can tell you through conversations with male friends over the years that this is NOT something all men do. I had a male friend drop his jaw when I told him about this, because he genuinely viewed it as cheating...even before I did. "All guys do it" is a cop out.

Ultimately, there is a trust issue for me. I can't trust him. And if I can't trust him online, what makes me think I can trust him in real life. That has been my deciding factor. Oh, that and he doesn't see anything wrong with it!

ugh.

((((HUGS))))

Hi there. I'm finding forgiveness is not an easy thing to do. I find it so difficult to switch off the questions that come up every day. I think for a WS to say "I don't know why I did it" he is either unable or unwilling to get real. My WS said he would do anything...and I asked for complete honesty about absolutely everything. To me, as I already know what I know and I already feel so hurt betrayed and unattractive, the only way for real forgiveness and love to grow again is for us to both be on the same page about what happened, why it happened and how it happened...all the dirt...otherwise how do I really know what it is I am trying to forgive?

As you said Gotmegood April 10 How do you combat those unacceptable impulses if you don't know where they are coming from ?

It seems that a WS can use all sorts of dismissive comments like "I don't know why" and "All men want to look at women"...and even "I didn't realise it was so hurtful" and then "I knew it was wrong". Also the "I was so thoughtless". So what really goes on in their brains? Can they really believe what they are saying? Thoughtless? Really? I would say thoughtless is not offering any help around the home or forgetting a special occasion. This

is waaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy more than thoughtless.

This is infidelity, betrayal, deceit, demeaning, disrespectful and hurtful behaviour. It reveals a weak-minded, lazy, sneaky, self-centred "all about me" attitude. My experience of my darling husband was the total opposite for 38 years. The person I lived with and loved was kind, caring, loving, giving, strong, smart, sexy....my rock, my hero...(that's what I told him). We had no falling out, no sudden marital problems that I knew of, and that makes me feel like a fool for not seeing anything.

So the real pain is the stranger that I have discovered and the loss of the future I thought I would have with the man I thought I knew. I still love the original version of him but I am terrified of this other one. He tells me that one has gone for good. But where did he come from and how did he allow him to nearly destroy the only person he says he has ever or could love????

Do we ever really know our significant other? Or is there always a stranger looming?

Be kind to yourself, you are still early in this process..Only time will tell how things unfold..

If you have the means, prepare yourself to be okay , like yesterday, whether or not R happens..Protect yourself legally ..

With time you will be able to tell if your WH is putting in the work to deserve another chance with you..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:04 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday)]

Until an addict has 3-5 years of solid sobriety, you are still dealing with an addict, so says my counselor.

With 26 years of sobriety from alcohol and drugs, I tend to agree.

Addicts lie, compartmentalize, deny, fabricate, and live in a fantasy land...for a variety of reasons.

SOBER= Son

Of a

Bitch

Everything's

Real

And reality is a hard pill to swallow for most addicts.

Sorry double post

[This message edited by bent44 at 11:21 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday)]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

I understand there's truth in what you say that it's not about me, it's about him. But I find myself feeling ugly, fat, old, and just not good enough. I can't compete with these gorgeous young bodies he interacted with and I shouldn't have to. I feel so ashamed that I was unable to hold his interest.

I'm furious that when the going got tough, he took care of No 1. I'm so hurt that he turned away from me to "fix his problems" (he said).

He tells me every day how much he loves me and wants a future with me. This is not a bad thing to say, it's a good thing, and yet I find I get annoyed at it. Throughout the 2 year period of porn and cybersex deceit and betrayal he told me how much he loved me. He told me how beautiful I was. So what that tells me is that he compartmentalised me in his "love" box and gave himself permission to play around with his fantasy girls having "harmless fun". So I kind of feel like a puppet on a string - when he wants me I'm supposed to be there for him. But when he wants to go off and do play, I'm supposed to be forgiving.

I find it so hard to understand how he could believe that playing around with fantasy girls on the internet was going to solve the problems in his head. He tells me he knew it was wrong, and felt ashamed of it, but obviously not enough to stop.

It is my belief that although he always told me he loved me, the love had faded somehow and he convinced himself that although it was wrong, it wasn't TOO wrong. He told me that he thought I would never find out. Does that mean it would have gone on and on? We will never know. He says it became a habit. But this is more than just a bad habit.

If he truly loved me and respected me as the love of his life, then how could he continue to do this when he knew it was wrong? The sting in this story for me was when he told me that he got nothing out of it. Really? Then why continue? Denial!!! He must have got something out of it to keep the activity and the secret going.

I've never known him to be a deceitful person. I've only ever known him to be a gentle loving caring family man. So this side of him is truly shocking.

I have been trying to be forgiving, but 4 months later and I'm feeling so sad and stuck every day. He doesn't have the answers that make sense for me and I don't know if he ever will. This is the hardest thing I have ever done. I wonder if I am strong enough to continue. I love him, but at times I look at him and feel such hurt and shame. He did a shameful thing. It hurt me terribly. It can't be undone. How do I ever get over the bitter disappointment of seeing this "stranger" in the only man I have ever loved? I feel like my faith and innocence in a happily ever after has been completely smashed. It's like I just found out Santa Claus doesn't exist and life will never be the same again.

[This message edited by 38yearstogether at 3:38 AM, July 28th (Monday)]

Hey honey. My H is the same. I found out a month after we were married about his online cyber sex addiction. With men and women. He said the same thing. He thought it was harmless fun. He loves me that it was all just ego boosts online. Mine uses to tell me the very same thing that I was beautiful and was so caring and loving. I couldn't understand why he had done this. Currently We are trying to work on it. He would of carried on had I not have found out. I too feel the same way as you. But its him that's broken. I know its hard but please please don't blame yourself. There's nothing wrong with you. Please take care of yourself. Sending you hugs.

I'm so sorry, what a shock! My original WS was doing the same things and that is what led me to this site. The internet became a trigger for me. I felt I had to monitor his phone. It was horrible. And the lies, deceit, blaming, projecting, minimizing, gaslighting; it all made me crazy.

Unfortunately, mine never came clean. I found more and more, and he never did get 100% honest with me. He didn't admit to anything I didn't find, and even then, he lied. "Curiosity, I don't know, harmless fun, just looking at the pictures" those are not the reasons why. Those are surface admissions. They don't come anywhere near the real reason for his brokenness. Mine said the same things and he expected me to be satisfied with those for answers.

I don't think he has been 100% honest with you. I think there is more digging to do. With the type of behavior your guy has been showing, there are some really deep underlying issues going on, and they will be very difficult to get to without counseling. He has shown entitlement, self-interest, the ability to lie and deceive, a lack of compassion.....and you need to know why. Why did he feel entitled to this behavior, knowing it would hurt you (and if he says he thought it was harmless and it wouldn't hurt you, he is STILL heavy into his lies because he hid it, didn't he?)

he is saying that he did it all with the intention of improving his own performance with me

Oh for crying out loud. Even his lies aren't good. I hope you were rolling your eyes at that one.....he did it because he wanted to. He did it because he enjoyed it. He did it because he was only concerned about himself and his own needs. If he wanted to improve his performance with you, then he would have discussed it with you or got a copy of the Kama Sutra or something informative. Everyone is different, you can't watch a porn video and then all of a sudden become a good lover. Porn tends to make people bad lovers, because porn isn't real and it isn't what women need. And chatting with other women doesn't tell him what YOU need. Every woman is different. He is just saying whatever he thinks you want to hear.

You will know if he has real remorse or not, because you will FEEL it. There is a huge difference between fake remorse and real remorse. I left my original WS because he wouldn't do counseling and wouldn't stop lying. Years later, I am with a new guy who had an EA. He has real remorse. He is digging deep into his issues and getting counseling. He is PATIENTLY ANSWERING EVERY SINGLE QUESTION I HAVE, OVER AND OVER AND OVER, AS MANY TIMES AS I NEED TO ASK.

He has not once tried to put the blame anywhere than where it belongs. He has reassured me that it had nothing to do with me or my attractiveness. He is working hard on his FOO issues and his self-esteem and his need for ego kibbles. He has put boundaries in place, without me even asking, in order to help me feel safe in this relationship again.

HUGE difference, between a remorseful WS and one that is trying to just do the minimum in order to rug-sweep and cake-eat.

I do feel his real remorse. I have asked so many questions and he is trying to answer, but the answers don't make sense....not even to him. I am starting to get a glimpse of understanding that this whole sordid thing had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH ME or my attractiveness or my worth as a person. The truth of his weakness and his lack of self-esteem and his stupidity are starting to reveal themselves to me. THIS IS NOT AND NEVER WILL EXCUSE HIS BEHAVIOUR OR HIS BETRAYAL. But I am only now after 5 months beginning to see that this was all his stuff and nothing to do with me. I want to learn to forgive because we both want a future together. It will always be there...sometimes like the elephant in the room. I want so much to be able to go back to how things were before all this...but he can't undo what he did or the hurt that it caused. I want to let go of the hurt and the injustice of it all. I want to be happy. I am striving for that now and I am determined to look after myself and make myself a priority in my own life. Hopefully with some time and counselling I can learn how to be happy. Thank you to everyone who has posted and shared their comments. I am grateful beyond words. I guess no one ever thinks that they will be betrayed, and when it happens it is so traumatising and life is never quite the same. I wish you all the very best and remind everyone who ever reads this that you are OK just the way you are and to trust yourself and your own judgement in all things. There is hope and to take care of yourself first and foremost.

[This message edited by 38yearstogether at 5:38 AM, August 8th (Friday)]

There are a lot of men who do this to get cheap thrills, and they're not 'sex addicts.'

Sometimes when things are plentiful and right there in their laps (like the entire internet with all kinds of sites like these), the temptation is too great and they seek out whatever pitiful thrills they can get with anyone who'll give them some attention.

You see this a lot especially with those men who feel so 'deprived' because their wives can't change into a different woman every day of the week and they're 'bored' with the same body year after year.

That just makes these guys assholes, not 'sex addicts.'

I can't believe how every single guy that's caught cheating is now claiming to be a sex addict in order to shove the blame for their sleazy behavior on something else. Sheesh.

Hi 38. Hugs to you.

I've been in your position before and I'm glad you are standing your ground. I made the mistake of not taking into account that cybersex and a lot of it could be a problem that leads to worse sexual transgressions like prostitues, casual encounters etc.

Unfortunately for me, my H eventually moved on from porn to web cam girls and the same things in your OP/cybersex to prostitues and strippers.

I really don't think any excuse for having cybersex is a good excuse when you have a significant other.

Stay strong