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Everyone makes excellent points. I will respond more in depth tomorrow (this has been a crazy day) but if my BH no longer wants me to be friends with "D" I will 100% respect his decision. My marriage is my #1 priority!

That's good, pizzalover

Look, this isn't Dawson's Creek. I used to think that as long as I had no sexual attraction to a man, I could hang out and be "just friends" despite my single or married status.

A few problems with that.

1. this guy whether you recognize or not, may like YOU and may just decide to put the moves on. You just don't know what's in his head.

2. Discussing your M issues with another man should be strictly OFF LIMITS no matter what your intention

3. The BH will never fully trust you and you are pushing that envelope. Why are you pushing his anxiety up? It is honestly quite selfish.

You want this guy as a friend then see him as a couple. I am in the camp of not needing opposite sex friends. Maybe you should think about why it is so important to you to have opposite sex friends.

Since there is no stop sign, I'll put in my 2 cents worth.

Google the term "beta orbiter" which is a new (to me, anyway) pop psychology term.

Is your male friend a beta orbiter? Does your husband see him as such? If so, he could also be concerned on that front--not trusting the motives of some guy he doesn't know who appears to be waiting in the wings for his opportunity.

pizzalover, Seems like your H was testing you with that, "do I have anything to worry about question?". He has likely been bothered by you and D for some time now. I honestly could not imagine my H spending solo time with a gal friend after the A. No way. He said he felt weird just by being in the car with his assistant.

If my BH no longer wants me to be friends with "D" I will 100% respect his decision.

I am guessing your H isn't going to come out and say this. It would be a demonstration of your commitment if you pulled the plug on the relationship. And with D being such a great friend, he would understand.

Yes, no "stop sign" so I will chime in, too. In the movie "Harry Met Sally," Harry tells Sally, "Men and women can't be friends." While I know many, many people would disagree with this, I personally subscribe to this theory. Eventually, one or the other develops some sort of "feelings" for the other party. Now, it may never be mentioned or acknowledged but it's there. Or maybe just in the end something stupid happens between the two. Too risky!!!

Your husband is not comfortable with your friendship with D - at least in the context it is now. The fact that he questioned you about it says he isn't. If you love him, want to save your marriage, and prove to him that you will do anything to save it, sever the relationship with D immediately. Or if D can be a friend of the marriage where you husband is included in any activities that might be a different story. But, if that's not going to happen, to save your marriage you have to end the friendship. You owe it to your husband.

Would you be okay if your BH would spend some time alone in a pool with a female friend in her bikini? I know my FWW wouldn't be okay with it.

I would definitely not be ok with my FWW in a similar situation.

Maybe your friend is just waiting for the right time? I have seen some people waiting for decades.

There is also the problem of perception.

This seems wrong in so many levels...

BS here, just piling on my thoughts. I don't know you or your husband. I do know as the BS there are times I make decisions I wish I hadn't because I feel insecure about keeping WH's love. Crazy, I know. I'm a fairly strong person too who is quite opinionated and not afraid to say what I think to those I love. But this affair has knocked me for six and sometimes I make poor decisions out of desperation to be loved like I love him. I'm just wonder if your h perhaps agreed to this arrangement in the first place out of wanting to keep you happy, afraid what you would choose if he asked you too. I can't tell you how to live your life or how to prioritise your relationships but I would ask the same questions that others have- why is this friendship worth even giving bh a moments pause on if anything is happening? Why do you need to have male friends outside of work? Why would you put yourself into a position where anything could happen, even if it's D who wants it to happen? How do you explain to bh one day that D tried to kiss you but you didn't give any signs to allow him to do so... You think bh isn't going to ask what the hell you were doing around there to begin with? Anyway, I wish you guys luck.

What did you get out of swimming in this guy's pool and going out with him?

Wouldn't a public pool satisfy your needs to do a few laps?

Pre-A, I saw no problem with men and women being friends. Under the right circumstances I think it can work, so I say this coming from that mindset, and not the "men and women can't be friends period" camp.

But I can understand why your BH would be upset with your answer. The right answer to that question should always be that he has nothing to worry about because you would never do that to him. Unfortunately, we've proved that concept wrong. So what is the true answer now. I'm not really sure in the OP if you really were able to express why your BH shouldn't worry about anything happening. Especially since yours was an EA, AND your BH knew him.

I'm closer to DDay than you are, but I can't really imagine spending any one on one time with another man at all at this point. It would make me uncomfortable thinking about about the possibility of BHs anxiety over the situation. But then again, I'm having trouble even spending time with female friends so I'm not the best example.

Isn't survivor over now anyway, lol. Maybe you should just take a break for a bit and plan some date nights out as couples for a while.

I hope your IC session went well!

I apologize in advance for not recognizing posters by name. I am trying to respond to everything before I need to start working.

If giving up the relationship with D isn't possible then that is a data point as to how important you feel your relationship to your BH is.

My relationship with my BH is my #1 priority. I would give up the relationship in a second if BH wanted me to.

I don't know what your story is but I'm thinking your A might have started with just a friend.

If you are interested in my story, the link is posted in my profile. We started out as casual acquaintances. A one night stand led in to the shit storm of my 3 1/2 year affair.

Would your BH rather you not hang out with D? I would say unless he is fully supportive of your relationship with D, you should volunteer to not go unless your BH goes with you. Although you may feel there is nothing there, your BH has no confidence in this because of your past. Your really need to have new boundaries now.

I think my BH is going to weigh in on this thread, but he said that he had no problem with me still hanging out with D. We did, however, discuss that it is probably not a good idea for me to hang out with him alone. The majority of the time that we have hung out has included a female colleague/friend as well. I am assuming (and BH can comment on this if he would like) that it is okay for me to still hang out with him if there are other people present. However, if he is not okay with this, I have absolutely no problem terminating the friendship and just be professional colleagues. I understand that it will take my BH a long time to have confidence in me again due to my past. I am working hard so that he does have confidence in me and can trust me.

I want to be comfortable to have male relationships.

Outside of the work environment, why?

I don't want to live my life no longer have male relationships. I understand, however, that my BH may be suspect of any relationship. If the male is a friend of the marriage, then I believe it is okay to have a relationship, with appropriate boundaries established. I do realize and respect my BH enough to cut off any and all relationships that would make him uncomfortable.

I apologized to my BH this morning for responding in the way that I did, but I hope that he understands now why I said what I said

As a BH, the word but (to me anyway) would invalidate the entire apology and come across as justification.

It was not my intention to invalidate the apology. I should have used the word "and". Poor choice of words.

There may be absolutely no concerns about an A with "D". I *get* that. Obviously, right now, your BH, doesn't. What will you do?

As stated before, I have absolutely no problem with cutting off the relationship.

What he wanted to hear was that you choose him over everyone else - or at least that is what I would want to hear. I would have not reacted well either. He probably thinks the fact that he feels comfortable with you going is a sign that your marriage is recovering. He may even be proud of the fact that you can go and he is not bothered by it. He was looking for re-assurance that he was right in thinking that way when he asked.

Thank you for your point of view.

AND

The toughest part of R is that we say things that are misinterpreted, and then the original point gets lost. I can see where you are coming from, but he was really asking for you to tell him you loved him above everyone else.

Thank you for your point of view. I never thought of me being allowed to go over to D's house as a sign of recovery, but I agree that it is. I do feel sometimes what I am saying gets misinterpreted, but I will continue to work hard on being very clear about what I am saying. I do love him above anything else.

Are you and "D" alone in his pool?

I believe it has only been 1 time. Every other time my female friend/colleague has been there.

My BH has only met “D” one time.

Why?

I am not quite sure. I will think about this. I do agree that my BH needs to get to know D.

My personal opinion is you should not be alone with any man outside of the family for a while until you have fully sorted out the why's of your affair.

Agreed 100%.

I am continuing my responses here.

I want to be comfortable to have male relationships

K. What does BH want?

I will speak to him about this and whatever he wants I will abide by.

I assure you that no one needs to worry about the relationship that I have with “D”

What we worry about is irrelevant. Perhaps my interpretation was wrong, but I believe BH was telling you, indirectly that he is worried about it. Do you get why he might feel that way?

I absolutely know why he would feel that way. My past actions have led him to question what I do, whereas before he trusted me 100%. I am working hard to rebuild the trust that we once had.

I agree with the question "why hasn't H met D or been around him more?" If this person is really important to you, H should be comfortable with it.

Maybe sit down and talk to him about the underlying issue. Try and see if you both can assess his comfort level with the current boundaries.

I agree that he needs to be comfortable. I will talk to him in depth about this.

Sorry, but I am not sure if you should have been going to another mans house that BH only met once for an evening without telling him first. If you did tell him you were going, i apologize.

I did tell him that I was going. In fact, I asked permission before going since I want him to be comfortable.

My question for you is, why are you doing this? Who cares if your husband "approves" and take out the whole previous affair. You are a married woman. Do you really think it's cool for you to go hang out with a male friend, watch tv, go swimming? Really?

I never once thought that it "wasn't cool" because my friendship is as platonic as platonic can be (I do realize this point may be irrelevant, because I realize that platonic relationships may turn into something else. As I said before, I am 100% willing to cut off the friendship. Nothing is more important then my BH.

Your marriage seems to have a few problems.

Don't all relationships recovering from an affair have problems? However, we had problems before the affair even started that we are working to resolve in therapy - both marital and personal.

Why are male relationships such a huge deal for you to have? (Asking as a former "I'm only friends with men cause women are all drama and make me uncomfortable" person.)

Is this guy worth losing your marriage over? Is his friendship more important than your husband's healing and comfort?

They are not a huge deal, but I do realize in my past, I have desperately needed approval from both men and women. "D" is not worth losing my marriage. "D" is absolutely not more important then my relationship with BH.

How would you feel if your BH had a female friend and wanted to hang out alone with her and watch a movie, swim, etc, etc, etc. I don't think you would be comfortable with it.

I would not be comfortable with it, so I understand why he would not be comfortable with it either.

1. this guy whether you recognize or not, may like YOU and may just decide to put the moves on. You just don't know what's in his head.

2. Discussing your M issues with another man should be strictly OFF LIMITS no matter what your intention

3. The BH will never fully trust you and you are pushing that envelope. Why are you pushing his anxiety up? It is honestly quite selfish.

You are right - I don't know what is in his head. I will no longer discuss my marriage and our recovery with "D". I am not trying to push his anxiety up and I do realize I am being selfish wanting to have a friendship. As stated numerous times, I am absolutely willing to give up this relationship.

Seems like your H was testing you with that, "do I have anything to worry about question?". He has likely been bothered by you and D for some time now.

Hopefully my BH will weigh in on this.

The fact that he questioned you about it says he isn't. If you love him, want to save your marriage, and prove to him that you will do anything to save it, sever the relationship with D immediately. Or if D can be a friend of the marriage where you husband is included in any activities that might be a different story. But, if that's not going to happen, to save your marriage you have to end the friendship. You owe it to your husband.

Agreed 100%.

As a BS, I didn't want to always have to ask for the changes, I wanted my husband to recognize the problem and make the changes on his own. To me, that meant he was really focused on me and our recovery.

You keep saying if he asks you to not see "D" anymore, you will abide by it. What a way to make your husband the bad guy. "We can't be friends anymore because my husband won't let me."

I wish your husband well and I wish for you continued growth.

I agree with confused girl.

You don't see anything wrong or slippery about male friendships. You are doing what your husband wants because *he* wants it. Not because you feel checked about your behavior. You don't see a problem with male companionship so therefore this scenario could, and probably will, repeat.

Not saying avoid men. Lord knows we cant. And we shouldn't. But check your boundaries. Check your motives.

This:

You don't see a problem with male companionship so therefore this scenario could, and probably will, repeat.

Also, you're still in the early phases of your M. 10, 15 years in, these "friends" are much more likely to become problematic once you've been dealing with the mundane reality of real life with BH for a decade+.

Add in shift the focus to kids & carpool (if you go that route), feeling stressed/neglected/complacent, and you've got "D" & however many other potential APs lined up & ready to go. He'll "get you," understand, play around, whatever. It'll be fun. And then it can easily shift.

Here is my thought on this:

“There is nothing that I need to worry about with “D” is there?” to which I replied no. He asked me why to which I replied, “He’s my friend and there is nothing there.” This enraged my BH. He said, “So if there was something there you would cheat on me” to which I replied no. He was saying that my answer should have been that I won’t cheat because it’s wrong. I said I agreed with that and I told him that I never wanted to hurt him again and that I would never cheat on him again. My BH said that I needed to talk in therapy why I answered the way that I did.

Probably the proactive thing to do here is validate your husband fear rather than dismiss it. I would go so far as to say "You know what, I understand what you are saying. I'm going to make the decision to stop going to D's to swim in his pool and stop talking to him about our marraige issues. I want to spend more time with you and talk to you about our issues."

I know that there will be people here who will say cut off the relationship now, but I assure you that no one needs to worry about the relationship that I have with “D”.

That there sounds like rationilizing what you want is more important than the M. Also, it asks the audience for a certain measure of trust when in fact you have already shown in the past that your last "assurance" about a platonic male friendship failed. You have much credibility to build with your BH before asking him to "trust" you again or "assure" him of any friendship with any more males.

I will respond more in depth tomorrow (this has been a crazy day) but if my BH no longer wants me to be friends with "D" I will 100% respect his decision. My marriage is my #1 priority!

I think you need to own this situation completely. Don't pass the decision to him.

This is an interesting thread.

Just to be clear I am not a W, and have been divorced, so single now but like to read these threads to see different people's mindsets.

PL,

Why do you keep passing the decision back to your husband? You know full well he doesn't like it, it's clear he doesn't feel comfortable to come out and say it, so why not be proactive and step up and take control and just end the friendship yourself? This is your marriage too. Ultimately, if your marriage is strong and your husband is happy you are the one who benefits from that.

You have stated numerous times in this thread that IF your husband doesn't like it... can you honestly believe he does? It seems to me you are trying to get him to agree to things he doesn't want to, and then he obviously feels he has to, and then explodes because he feels he's been coerced into something he doesn't want.

I ended things with a boyfriend of 2 months over this kind of thing. He wanted to go do something with another girl, I said no. He said there were going to be lots of other people there, I still said no. That this was something she had bought tickets to before we met, I said no. She's not even pretty, I still said no. But that whole very heated conversation lingered in my mind. It was so important for him to hang out with another girl, he couldn't even tell her no himself, I had to be the bad guy. It made me lose my enthusiasm for the relationship. It made me lose my respect for him. It put it in my mind that he would likely cheat on me in the right situation, so I just never felt that safety and security to really be free around him. And really, I thought there was a very juvenile mentality to him needing to be buddy-buddy with another woman when he had the chance to establish a real relationship.

I would not be comfortable with it, so I understand why he would not be comfortable with it either.

This is your answer. Be your own enforcer. Be proactive and empathetic. You absolutely already know what to do.

but I assure you that no one needs to worry about the relationship that I have with “D”.

Gently - Your BH asked about it. That's really all there is to it. He asked, which means on some level he's uncomfortable with it. Whether or not there is 'anything' there is no longer relevant, imo. What is relevant is your BH doesn't feel safe.

LOL - a bit late I see.

OK - so on the 'asking'. As a BS, I don't want to micro manage my H. I don't want to play babysitter. I do expect him to think about what he's doing, and how it will affect me.

pizzalover, you've already said you wouldn't be comfortable. If you wouldn't be comfortable, why put your BH in the situation?

I'm with everyone else - I think the right thing here is to just stop the behavior without waiting to be 'told'.

[This message edited by painfulpast at 1:54 PM, May 23rd (Friday)]

First, the decision to be close friends with men is YOUR decision. Putting the decision to leave this friendship, or any friendship, on your BH is wrong. It puts him in the control mode. You need to control yourself.

I don't want to live my life no longer have male relationships. I understand, however, that my BH may be suspect of any relationship. If the male is a friend of the marriage, then I believe it is okay to have a relationship, with appropriate boundaries established. I do realize and respect my BH enough to cut off any and all relationships that would make him uncomfortable.

Boundaries? What are your boundaries with this male friend? You spend time alone with him, watch TV alone with him and swim alone with him? These are not the boundaries of a WS that would give a BS any comfort or reassurance. These are boundaries of someone who does not get it.

Panda...spot on. Dawson's Creek was a fictional place, not real life. You cannot keep crawling into this guy's window and repair your M.