SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

i have to agree with Alex 100%

"Love is dirty dishes, cranky kids, quickies when the kids are out, wonderful holidays, struggling with money, family weddings and funerals, creating a lifetime of traditions together and finding the sweet spots that keep your love going above all the chaos in life. An affair is a selfish attempt to fill a hole inside a person, using people to get what they want, including the AP. An affair is all about one person's wants......love is about two people, wanting the best for each other."

this comment is right on point.

in addition to what was written by alex...i have to ask why the wh isnt with the ap if he loved her so much? i mean.....i think that alone says a lot. if it was so special...and so much all the risks involved to be together during the a...well...if they loved each other so much, why not just make arragements to be together full time. why lie about anything?

in my husband's case...he too dealt with other women while he was cheating with his ap. i remember the ap telling me how much of an emotinal connection she had with my h....how he said all of this and that to her. well, in my research...i found that he had been talking to other women as well....even an old ap. when he was cheating, he was cheating. do i think he cared about them...maybe...on some level...he was able to talk to her about personal things. but that is what happens in affairs. and in addition to that...the cheaters lie and manipulate the ap as well....and still want to stay married. i dont think that is love at all.

I will echo something that sri624 said. On Dday my H made the point that if he really wanted the OW she had made it clear that he could have her. (she left her husband early on; something that she threw in my H's face but he adamantly refused to accept responsibility for that). At that point the A had been over for 18 months, cold turkey (after I found phone records, but he had lied about it being a PA). That didn't comfort me at all at the time, but it is true. He was a selfish enough person at the time that if he felt that he was happier with her he would have tossed me and the kids aside in a heartbeat. He didn't give it a moment's consideration.

In fact, although at times I would give anything for the A to have been only months long, I also know that as it went on it become worse and worse and he realized how much he really didn't like her, and she had started screaming obscenities at him. He had learned his own lesson about cheating long before I learned the truth. If it had ended when the appeal wore off but before it became toxic (at several months duration according to my H) I fear that on some level he would have had positive memories of it, and her, and could have gone down that path again, either with her or with someone else. And I may never have found out, either.

Lark, Still livin and callmesteph, thanks for the kind words. Eight years is a lot to take in, i am crushed and it has changed my outlook on pretty much everything. DDay was actually May 1 and it has been a bumpy couple of months, with more turbulence to follow I am sure. (sorry in advance that this rambles...)

As far as A's go, each is unique in its own right, but most follow a similar pattern. I do believe it is possible to have an LTA and not feel or express love for the other person. I think it takes an emotionally broken person/people for this to happen. Just so happens that my H and OW are both broken.

Now that the A is in the open, my H is very remorseful (he says he is relieved it is over - he wanted to stop, but had trouble controlling the compulsion...he is learning through IC and SAA that those feelings pass). He is trying to make amends and clean up the mess he has created.

When we started talking about the A in earnest, month/year it started, details of encounters etc,..he was actually horrified to realize it had gone on for so long. The look on his face was priceless when I started ticking the years off on my fingers. Unfortunately, I was too enraged at the time to find humor in the situation. He explained that he compartmentalized the whole thing and never stopped to examine the affair globally. They would have a hookup, he would go back to his day amd try to forget what he had just done. He felt guilty about his behavior, but not enough to stop.

I think the other thing that surprised him was the number of times they were together.....even when contact is not consistent over the years, you hit double digits pretty early on and the numbers escalate from there.

There is a bit of back story, I had suspicions two years ago, confronted H and he swore they had only kissed one time (liar, liar pants on fire). H was very defensive when I would ask questions and finally agreed to take a polygraph. He has admitted he studied Internet articles about how to beat the test prior to the exam. Lo and Behold, he passed the poly and we wasted two years. He lied to cover his lies.

My gut kept telling me something wasn't right and I confronted him again in May, (also contacted the OW's BH), and that is when the truth started tumbling out. Because it went on for so long, H does not remember every single detail of their encounters, but has been able to provide a pretty good overview and enough ugly, gritty details to give me a good idea of what went on. In the last few weeks, he obtained work telephone records, we have gone over bank statements and personal phone records. The documentation supports the details he has provided. H is not defensive, he answers all of my questions and provides information freely.

Do I believe everything (or even part of what) my H tells me? Absolutely not. I believe actions speak louder than words and his actions now are of a very remorseful spouse. Only time will tell. We both realize healing will be a slow process and many changes need to take place in our marriage.

I am sad that all of us are on this crazy train of infidelity due to the incredibly immature and selfish actions of our spouses. Hugs to all!!

Catlover50 - our H's have some similarities. I am hopeful my H will successfully address his FOO issues and turn out as well as your husband has!

Thanks for sharing.

The relief for it being over, horror over realizing the extent of it, and seeming to be truly remorseful is true of my husband as well. I think in some affairs, it truly is compulsive-guilt-compulsive. And the guilt actually feeds into doing it more to relieve or fuel that guilt. That doesn't justify it, but it helps understand it.

The seeming to be genuinely relieved that it's over is definitely a relief to me. Some of hte stories on here, I just can't imagine having to deal with on top of the A

Lark, I am with you 100%!!

Interesting responses to a question that has been asked countless times before.

On dday, my WH admitted that he "cared about" his MOW, but not as much as he "cared about " me. Since then he has told me that he never felt that he loved her, and that he had always loved me.

The more things I remember being said in the early days after dday, the more I realize that he did indeed speak the truth. "Caring about" either of us was probably an apt description of his feelings. During the 15 year "relationship" ( his words) he loved neither her or me. He told us both that he loved us. He would say those words to me frequently, every day and he would tell her that "in the heat of passion".

He would call me moments before leaving the office with her and would end the conversation with those words. He would tell her the same thing before feeling that he had to get home.

The truth is that he did not love either of us. I will never believe that you can love someone while methodically deceiving them and having no interest in considering that you are destroying them bit by bit everyday as you withdraw your love.

I also do not believe that you can love the person you are using for sex, affirming the relationship by using those words and allowing them to believe them yet constantly undermining the solidity and security of their family unit.

Neither is love. Love is wanting only the best for someone else. It is a desire to see that person healthy and happy and safe. It is compassion, respect and loyalty. It is putting their needs before yours.

So no, my WH did not love his AP, or me, or himself. And his worse betrayal was to himself and the man he could have been.

He has changed so very much in the last 2 1/2 years. The love I feel from him now is the love I was missing for so long.

We are both learning how to love again. It is still bittersweet, but I'll take it!

Love is dirty dishes, cranky kids, quickies when the kids are out, wonderful holidays, struggling with money, family weddings and funerals, creating a lifetime of traditions together and finding the sweet spots that keep your love going above all the chaos in life. An affair is a selfish attempt to fill a hole inside a person, using people to get what they want, including the AP. An affair is all about one person's wants......love is about two people, wanting the best for each other.

This is so needing to be made into a poster sized reminder on your bathroom mirror or something

Love is an Action not a feeling

My WH's reasoning for his A was all about as he quoted "filling a hole" . But since I feel to me that having a "hole" is an illusion = it's just your crap-human-sinfulness covering up the amazing from the IS that IS spirit reality = there was never gonna be a way to fill a non-existent "hole". So an affair, as inherently selfish and focused on desire, can never be about actual l-o-v-e. Our English language is so limiting that way. At least in Greek there is eros, filios and agape if that makes sense how I am defining marital LOVE.

LOVE is about staying in the light - love loves the light that is the present boundless moment of true mindfulness. An affair bases its entire existence on destruction of all that is pure and good - it's all just a delusional drug / hormonal high, a lie, a fantasy... it ain't the Alex quote

'nuff said

[This message edited by Merida at 5:05 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]

Catlover and fighting back said it all!

He said ILY first....before the A went physical...

She divorced her H 9 months later....

she started planning their 'life' he went along but never had any real intention of following through...sounds like real love to me!

kind of like Ali McGraw in love story....'love means never having to say you're sorry'

Yea right....

Bottom line he did NOT love himself....

if he had loved her soo much why didn't she see that bus on dday?

We BOTH know now what REAL love is.....

my H had no emotions towards the OW in the least. He was embarrassed by them, and only used them to feed whatever broken pieces of himself he was trying to fill from the outside world. He very openly told them he loved me, would never leave me and that he was having plenty of sex at home still as well. He used them, bottom line. He found people he felt were below him and he would never want to be with, that made it easier for him to do this and I don't question for one second that he felt nothing for them. I know the types of women H dated before me, these people were not even close to being dating material. It's sad that they allowed themselves so willingly to be used, but they were all married as well and liked that a younger guy who was out of their league paid any attention to them, even if it was all fake.

Sorry I did not get a chance to respond yesterday as I was recovering from surgery and my 9 yo son had an appendix pain/rupture scare.

Seethelight.....

So, yes, our spouses likely loved the OW in some way.

I do believe that they don't in most cases love them enough to want them as spouse material.

They are just a diversion that fills a gap.

I agree and believe that's why he told APs he would never leave his family.

Stillstanding1......

My H also mentioned "no strings attached" with his single, younger APs as well.

It sounds like your WH is remorseful. That is key.

Lark.....that is a good point that women(APs) tend to be more emotionally invested while the men mostly enjoy the physical aspect of the A.

Catlover50.....

My WH had an almost four year LTA and I'm convinced there was no love there.

So no, the length of the A does not necessarily equal the emotional involvement.

Thethreeyearfool.....it sounds so pathetic of your WH 's fCOW to beg and plead for your H's love and affection! But it made me smile to know that those broken APs were so desperate for attention and got what they deserve :).

Sri624.....

..i have to ask why the wh isnt with the ap if he loved her so much?...cheaters lie and manipulate the ap as well....and still want to stay married. i dont think that is love at all..

Yes, our WHs would have left us if there was real love involved! Just wanted fun, fantasy and cake-eating :( Like Catover50 said if he felt that he was happier with her he would have tossed me and the kids aside in a heartbeat. He didn't give it a moment's consideration.

Sunnydaysahead.....thx you for sharing more details of your story.

Now that the A is in the open, my H is very remorseful (he says he is relieved it is over - he wanted to stop, but had trouble controlling the compulsion.......He felt guilty about his behavior but not enough to stop.

This compulsion and guilt trips cycle seem very common among our WHs.

Sunnydaysahead....,so glad to know that your H is remorseful and doing the hard work so both of you can heal.

Fightingback.....

Love is wanting only the best for someone else. It is a desire to see that person healthy and happy and safe. It is compassion, respect and loyalty. It is putting their needs before yours.

So no, my WH did not love his AP, or me, or himself. And his worse betrayal was to himself and the man he could have been.

Merida....I agree, the hole is nonexistent and if it does exists in some, it could be so infinite that it can never be filled/fulfilled. Love your take on love as well:

Love is an action not a feeling....LOVE is about staying in the light - love loves the light that is the present boundless moment of true mindfulness. An affair bases its entire existence on destruction of all that is pure and good - it's all just a delusional drug / hormonal high, a lie, a fantasy...

Sunvalley.....

He used them, bottom line. He found people he felt were below him and he would never want to be with, that made it easier for him to do this and I don't question for one second that he felt nothing for them.

My WH felt that he was in control of the situation and used these women who weren't marriage material for his own selfish needs as well.

I wanted to thank you everyone for taking time out to reply to this as another poster stated "repeatedly asked question."

Although all of us BSes have these LTAs in common, we also share WSes that are now truly remorseful and loving us honestly in ways that we could never felt possible before or imagine. They are becoming better husbands/fathers/soul mates that we could have never dreamed of and for that my optimism for life and living is being restored.

Hugs to all...😘😘😘😘...for a better,brighter future & stronger marriage!!!