SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Badchoice, I hesitate to add anything here because SBB is laying it all out so well, and I posted the last time you posted about this situation. I don't want to continue to beat you over the head. But…..

BW telling your son that you don't like Joe is not cool. Not.cool.at.all.

There is a lot of wayward thinking and wayward behavior being talked about in this post and it's not yours. I hope there comes a time when you can stop minimizing you BW's behavior.

It's good you are reading that book. Another one you might want to look at is Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward. It talks about how people get lost in a FOG. Interesting word given this site, and it stands for behaving out of Fear, Obligation and Guilt.

It good you are venting too. I suspect that's a sign of progress and coming out of the FOG (of fear, obligation and guilt) and starting to see things differently. Even if it doesn't feel like progress.

I really hope you find strength and peace.

SBB - thanks for all the advice and help. I do appreciate it.

I know that even considering this is overwhelming.

yes, it is. I have a lot of thinking and work to do.

thanks

Dixie,

The venting is hard. I don't like to admit some of this stuff, and at one point I thought BW would read my post, but she hasn't been on SI for months, and even if she did read it, I am fine with it.

Even though NC has only been a few hours, I feel a little more stable, not as upset as I was after the call today. I won't see her until wednesday at exchange, and I have a busy schedule between now and then, plans with friends, work stuff, besides tonight I won't have time to dwell and be lonely.

Thanks.

badchoice,

What SBB and dixie have said is both dead on. Please read what they have said a couple of times and consider doing what she said. It is time to move this forward. The people down in S/D are really great people. Not that you can't still come here, but I think it is time to think about the next phase of your life.

I read in D/S a lot, but haven't posted down there.

As a WS, it feels a little like it's more of a BS club down there. I know it my issues with that, and I am sure the folks down there are great.

Maybe I will take the dive down there this weekend.

I can understand that. But they can probably give you way more advice on how to navigate the waters on how to start initiating this thing. How to dip your toes in the water so to speak. Your W is taking advantage of the situation at this point. If she has no job and has not started school then what is she doing with her time?

what is she doing with her time?

Cant tell you that. She has major depression and just this past week told me she struggles to get out of bed and get dressed. Those things are like daggers in my heart cause I feel responsible.

Heres another mini rant!

So since we separated two years ago, and BW kept the new car, she has had two accidents, and was run into twice.

First accident, we paid out of pocket $800 to get it fixed. Then she got hit while parked in front of the house twice by two separate drivers, and the last accident she side swiped a car.

The two cars that hit her will cover repairs, and mind you, this is a car we still pay $500 a month on for another year until it's paid off. So today I noticed that the damage on the back bumper was more than I had noticed, and asked if she was planning on getting it fixed.

Her reply was she had to figure out when she can go without a car for a few days, then I reminded her that our insurance will cover a rental car.

I am sure she felt like I was attacking her, but I am looking at the fact that one day we are going to own that car, and you cannot go after someone to pay for repairs 3 years after an accident. I hope she gets it fixed.

So what is she doing about the depression? She is on your ins, why isn't she seeing a dr? How old are the kids?

She is in IC, has been for 5 - 6 years, and has a second IC for Rx (AD). She has a long history of IC over the last 14 years (after our MH bouts early in the M)

She is getting the professional help she needs, and has been for a while.

Kids are 6 and 11

Then this is not about you but about her fixing her. So stop taking it on which then in turn is keeping you in this M. Take the next step and move forward. Which will allow you both to move on.

she struggles to get out of bed and get dressed.

Except for when Joe is there, correct?

I'm sorry, but your BS is using you my dear and I highly doubt Joe is just a friend. Regardless of your past, your BS doesn't get a free pass to use you for however long she wants.

It's time for you to put the brakes on the money tree for her and move forward with your life.

I hear what everyone is telling me and I think it is finally sinking in.

My first instinct is to jump in here and defend her, tell y'all that you have it all wrong, but then I feel like she is an adult, and this is about me, not her.

I will say this, I don't think that her and joe are anything but friends, but again, I don't need to defend her here. That being said, I really don't have a say in it, and it should matter to me.

I called my IC and left her a message. I want to see her friday morning so I can start working up to talking to BW about next steps towards D.

I think what I need to do is;

1) come up with a timeline for BW to find a job. Maybe not her dream job, but a job

2) we wanted to do mediation, to save money, and we wanted to do this together, so maybe meet with a lawyer to figure out options

3) discuss separation of finances during S

4) be really depressed most likely.

Maybe it should be more a timeline to start D. Not her getting a job. That should be on her plate, not yours. You just need to let her know that it is time to start D proceedings. You have given her two years and it is time.

Let her know you are still open to mediation as long as it works. This is where the people in S/D can really help you.

No need to get really depressed. If this is what your self talk is, then it will happen. You have known it was coming. I do believe you have been willing to continue to pay like this in hopes that she would change her mind, she has been willing to take it because she felt you owed it to her. It is keeping you both hostage. This will set you both free. I believe you will feel better.

thanks TG.

I think last night was a turning point for me. I think I can say that it is over. I can let go.

BTW

I just dipped my toe into D/S forum. It was scary since I always looked at it as a BS forum, and I am a foreigner in that space, but then I remember that I never really allowed myself to heal from my mad hatter/BS stuff. I never bring up my hurt to my BW because I feel so guilty of what I did. I buried all that hurt and pain deep so long ago.

I hope my IC can see me next week.

Are you telling me that after two years she has not been able to find a single job?

Yes

.

I feel torn, because I gave her my word on this, and even the last time I brought this subject up on SI, she read that post and got upset.

I feel like I need to start talking timelines, end games, etc…But it does not feel like a safe conversation for me.

Badchoice -

you are getting some really good advice here. The only thing I want to add is that this was my situation exactly. I offered xWW one year of spousal support even though in my state she is not entitled to any spousal support since she was guilty of adultery (and I can prove it). I originally suggested paying her support until she found a job but my L told me to give her a 1 year time limit.

I'm glad I did. She never looked for a job until the year was almost up. She turned down at least one job and OM would not let her even look for a job when she was with him. When the year was up she stopped being friendly and showed her true colors making threats and being downright nasty.

Your BW is doing the same thing and it is wrong. If she doesn't want to R then she needs to move on on her own. She doesn't want you around but she wants your money. She will be nice as long as you are paying. Once you stop paying things will likely be very different. You need to see an L now and get things moving if you are not going to R.

And if "joe" is moving in I really question the basis of their friendship. JMHO.

Good luck to you, buddy.

I remember that I never really allowed myself to heal from my mad hatter/BS stuff. I never bring up my hurt to my BW because I feel so guilty of what I did. I buried all that hurt and pain deep so long ago.

Have you had a look at the Madhatter thread? Again, I assume most of the posters are in R but I think you'll find it helpful.

I didn't realise until this thread that you are a MH. Did you change your tag line or am I just not very observant?

I agree with Gahurts and that is kind of what I was alluding to in my nice-ing post. I know you don't want an acrimonious anything but I have to say I think you've only staved that off in blood money. Your actual money and the blood you've bled for 2 years.

It's time. Do try to work with her but don't lay blame on yourself if it doesn't work out that way. You each choose how reasonable you want to be here. There is nothing you can do to make her reasonable if she simply won't.

I strongly suggest you read and re-read the Hoovering thread. I have a feeling you'll be facing quite a bit of guilting, blameshifting and hoovering once this ball is rolling.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=480828

Just as when you're working through your BS stuff you need to set your guilt aside for this. More often than not a BS doesn't divorce an unremorseful WS because they don't love them or want their M to work you too are not divorcing her because you don't feel guilty, don't want your M to work, don't want R or don't love her. You are divorcing her because R is not an option and this arrangement / limbo is not viable long term. For you or for her.

Simply. Painfully. Agonisingly. Because it is time.

She doesn't want R. That is not in dispute. Her argument that you 'owe' it to her to maintain the status quo is blown out of the water with the fact that it has been 2 years, her MH status and, frankly, with Joe. There is no better or worse cheating - there is just cheating.

I don't think she is cheating with Joe even if they are in an emotional and/or physical relationship. But she is taking the piss in allowing you to keep paying the blood money knowing full well that the only reason you're doing it is because you are desperate for R. Not because she deserves it or because you owe it to her but because you are desperate for R, because you feel guilt and because you feel responsible for her depression which existed long before you cheated.

Her blaming you for her depression and coping mechanisms doesn't make it your fault. I think we all learn this the hard way. You especially so.

I don't envy her because looking at the 'me' in this (MH aside) was a most bitter and difficult pill to swallow. She is 2 years out and not even anywhere near that. That is not good. Not good at all. That's her limbo - still blaming you for everything bad she is feeling AND how she has chosen to cope with it (or not as is the case here).

Before you are overwhelmed with guilt I ask you to step back and take a good look at her. Would you really want to R with her in the state she is in 2 years out, living how she is living and doing what she is doing? Really? For R to work doesn't just require her willingness - it requires her participation too. She isn't even participating in S!! This limbo 'works' for her as much as compartmentalising or leaving for the AP 'works' for any WS. ie: it doesn't. The problems are still there, bubbling away.

Your guilt has allowed her to manipulate you into an untenable situation. Your guilt has forced you to deny and stuff down the anger you have about said manipulation.

I'm guessing you're not guilting her for not wanting R by telling her about how you struggle to get out of bed sometimes, struggle to look in the mirror sometimes, about how sometimes your guilt overwhelms you so much you can't breathe? About how your guilt has led you to stay in limbo and barely object to the unfair financial arrangement or the Joe situation? About how you can't even allow yourself to feel angry at her? The fucker was wearing your hat, FFS!!

No. I too kept my feelings largely to myself during False R because he told me how much my pain hurt him - Rugsweeping/Blameshifting 101. It is not uncommon for both parties to do it.

THAT is how guilty/terrified you are of calling time on this. You are keeping/making yourself unhealthy just for a chance of R.

[This message edited by SBB at 9:17 PM, July 13th (Sunday)]

SBB -

my status has been in my signature for a while now.

Yes, her argument is that I owe it to her for turing her life upside down, and I see her point.

To the rest of it, I am anxious just reading your post. It is hard to read, and I appreciate your point of view.

ETA: when I did tell her about how the Joe situation made me feel, she turned that back on me, and made e feel guilty for expressing myself. She said I was trying to control her.

[This message edited by badchoice at 9:24 PM, July 13th (Sunday)]

Ga hurts - thanks.

SBB - about the hat - I don't know why, but i think that was my turing point. Something so simple, yet it cut me to the core.

She knew I didn't like the fact that he was around, and I get that I showed up early, but ask him to take the fucking hat off.

I just feel like that was a big FU to me. I know in my brain he was just wearing the hat, but it got to me.

Another example. One time she was dropping the kids off at my apt, and she looked upset. I asked her what was wrong and she said that I didn't have any pictures of her up anymore. Mind you this was at least a year after moving out, and i had taken the one picture of us down when it made me sad to see it everyday.

Also keep in mind that BW gave me every picture of me/us/me and kids when i moved out, so she has no pictures of me even in the house much less on the walls.

ok - my heart rate is up again. I have to stop ranting for a little bit. sorry for T/j my own post.

Sigh. You've been given a lot of good advice. I can empathize from both sides. This is a really sad situation. I don't have anything more to add than that. Good luck to you, BadChoice.