SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thanks, MR, for the advice. Can't do that, though. His phone is company-issued and I am sure his IT department would detect it. Can't jeopardise his job, just can't.

And yes, MR, his phone is practically an extension of his body. Keeps it on silent b/c his plant runs 24/7 and he doesn't want to bother me with constant plant updates, lol.

Shero

Post back and keep the thread alive. Too many do not act on what their gut tells them and wind up getting totally blindsided.

It sounds like something is going on that he does not want you to have total access to when all of this is combined.

Wow, BH, I read your story and i think ow is like your wife? We've all heard that "maneaters" exist, but for me, I put them in the loch ness category; mythical creatures, if you will. Good grief, human beings are so ridiculous and complex. Sorry, sorry for you. Hope you are doing okay. As an aside, I grapple daily with whether I should tell the ow's husband about how his wife conducts herself. Meh, he might already know, as he has been out to dinner and lunch, on my H's expense account. Maybe it turns him on.

Shero,

My wife had an emotional affair--discovered it when the OM sent an email to her hinting that it would be nice to sleep together, but sent it to our "family's" email.

I'm in business to business sales, but don't do super big client stuff, but know people who do. The drinks, dinners, etc. are part of the landscape. The male-female aspect is a challenge and it is tough to walk a fine line. I don't see red flags with the sales part too much.

BUT, what is very troubling for me is the secrecy of the phone and the credit card. A phone and credit card statement should be and need to be open between a husband and wife.

Now I get that there may be some things you don't want your spouse to see. If he buys you something for your birthday that would ruin the surprise or his emails to his guy buddies.

But if you show concern about him and a relationship with another woman, he should be willing to show you everything immediately with no deletions, no changes, etc. You should be able to see his credit card statements. He says their private... Bullshit! He gave up private discussions with women when he let you slide that ring on his finger and said, "I do". That's the deal.

Private discussions with men, yes. He should have some leeway regarding doing things where he is not held to account, like staying out late once in a while with guys, but not with women.

My wife and I went round and round for 8 fricking months with her password protected phone. She said it was so the children wouldn't mess with it. I said, "fine, tell me the password and I won't tell them!" Then blameshift and gaslighting -- he's just a friend, I need room to be myself, you did this to me and that to me years ago which put me in the state I am today.

The question is not that you deserve and need to have access to these records, but how to spring it so that info is not lost in the process and he goes deeper underground IF there is an affair. The goal is twofold in my mind:

1) Make an Emotional Affair very difficult to conceal and continue

2) Find out information about the affair in the past, if there is one.

For me, I was unable to capture the data. Perhaps you will not be able to as well. But the past is the past and I'm concerned about the now. If the "now" is taken care of, then the future will fall into place.

If your husband is a good salesperson, he would not have an affair with 80% of his revenue stream. That is a suicide pact for the both of them in their jobs. An EA however, now that I can see. It is much easier to fool oneself that it is nothing and that they are doing nothing wrong. I can see that they believe they can control it and have fun with it. But, can they when it's one am and both have had too much to drink? That is what you want to protect against.

I recommend "NOT Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. Read it. Consider having your husband read it. Didn't work in my case shaking her out of the fog, but it might have. I did help me get a handle on the EA thing and SI did too.

For me, it finally took a marriage councilor saying, "you can have him, or your husband, but not both. DELETE HIM, COMPLETELY.". She chose me (with great reluctance). But, you have your family's livelihood at stake with this OW. My thoughts and prayers are with you!

One more thing...

The purpose of a salesperson in big accounts is to sway the customer to do business with your company. Often it is expected that a good salesperson would be able to influence the buyer in a way that would be inappropriate based on the merits of the product. That's the relationship building, the rapport building, the $500 dinners, drinks, etc.

A good buyer will get a salesperson to reduce price, give benefits etc. beyond what is needed to acquire the product for the company they represent. The best companies out there--Fortune 500, etc., realize their buyers have a temptation to take personal benefits at the expense of the good of the company, and forbid close contacts, gifts, dinners, etc.

Why do I bring this up? Your husband's job is to push the envelope of what is inappropriate. To use a relationship and gifts to convince a buyer to make a judgment that is not in the best interest of her company. The OW's job is to try and get concessions beyond what is appropriate to get the business.

It's not right but that's big business.

Your husband needs to realize that this dynamic is going to drive a wedge in your marriage. You need to be on board with these tactics (and he needs to be very open with you), or your family needs to move to a different income source.

I haven't been able to read everyone's replies to see if this has been suggested or not...

Hopefully you have stopped questioning your husband, right? You need to be acting like everything is 100% fine, and should the subject come up, pretend like you made a huge misjudgement. Then start investigating. If he has something to hide, he will only hide it better if he knows you are suspicious. If not, then you will find nothing. If there is anything I have learned through SI, it is that the spouse having any kind if inappropriate relationship cannot be trusted to come clean with you. You might think he would just tell you for the sake of your marriage, that you can believe what he says. DO NOT make that mistake...

I have learned a ton about my husbands character with a VAR alone. If you have purchased one and getting ready to use it, PM me for some important tips...

Please... Don't approach him on anything yet! I completely understand where you are coming from...

Next day he changed his mind anyway. H: "where will it end if I give you my statement? Next will be my phone bill and texts, and me hiding in the bathroom while you go through them."

This is textbook cheater-ese. Have read it so many times on this site. The truth is, if a husband was faithful and truly cared/cherished his wife, and she suspected something, he would be more than willing to assuage her suspicions by simply showing her the phone bill. If the roles were reversed, and your husband asked to see your phone or the bill (if it was under your control), would you let him?

Does he spend time in the bathroom with his phone? THat comment is odd, and reminds me of the stories of WH spending so much time in bathrooms texting/emailing OW.

He also stated that it's based on "principle" that he won't give me the statements. "Which principle is that exactly?", I asked. No answer, other than "I am not having an affair"

Again, textbook excuses cheaters use. Who said anything about an affair? Oh, that right - he did! Unable to cite the "principle" that dictates you shouldn't see his phone bill or credit card statements (even tho you're MARRIED)

and "yes, I have stayed up too late, drank too much, and participated in foolishness, but I would never jeopardize my career or marriage for a passing interest".

Liar 101 -- Admit to a plausible, semi-benign half truth to appear "honest". What foolishness? What passing interest????

How do I cut and paste to create those efficient boxes in order to reply to specific parts of a post? I am currently on my IPad and it makes for slow going.

He still refuses to be fully transparent. This past February we had a huge blowout and he said he would give me his statements going forward (why would I care about those, since he was on notice now?!). Next day he changed his mind anyway. H: "where will it end if I give you my statement? Next will be my phone bill and texts, and me hiding in the bathroom while you go through them."

I'm sorry to say - that I have to agree with everyone else. THIS is the biggest red flag for me (along with the amex bill being pulled from the mail)

A guy with has nothing to hide -- yeah - he might get indignant at first and bluster - but you know what -- if they have nothing to hide, in the end they will show you, because once they get past the hurt pride - they want things to be right - and for their spouse to feel safe. period.

Hopefully the VAR will give some definite answers for you.

How do I cut and paste to create those efficient boxes in order to reply to specific parts of a post? I am currently on my IPad and it makes for slow going.

You highlight the part you want to quote, copy it with CTRL C and then paste with CTRL V in the reply box here. Then highlight it again in the reply box and click on the Quote button to the left.

You mentioned he wont show you the credit card statements. Is there any way you can see them? Are they in your name also?

Check anything you can related to personal finances.

[This message edited by craig2001 at 6:22 PM, July 16th (Wednesday)]

Thanks, C2001 (and another hug). Been hard to get to my computer lately, son home from college and sleeping in our library where my computer is located. And no, can't get to his cc statement, it's his personal one, used primarily for business. i've been asking, on and off, since February 2013, if you can believe that. The only other man I have confided in, my brother, could kind of understand my husband's reluctance since it's a "business" card and my husband has been such a solid man throughout our relationship. My brother was more dismayed by entertainment the week before my birthday and my husband's not getting me a gift for my birthday.

I am able to see, roughly, how much he spends b/c his personal bank account is linked to mine (don't know how that happened). Basically he went from spending 5-10 k a year to over 30k last year on business-related expenses.

Correct me if I'm wrong people, but could I possibly be over-reacting...perimenopause and all that?? I know you are only getting the facts that have alarmed me, but the reality of a marriage is so complex. For example, last night I brought it up again. Basically he called me a bully and I called him passive-aggressive. He said that he's going to cave (into giving me the statements) and then will resent it. BUT, he can't really articulate what exactly it is that he will resent; my not trusting his word? Asking (demanding) in the first place? Deciding after 25+ years that I should know a little more about his actions in "business"? My mind is on overdrive.

Basically he went from spending 5-10 k a year to over 30k last year on business-related expenses.

In other words, he may be defrauding him company to buy OW expensive gifts and dinners.

TT, I don't know about your fraud theory as all his expenses are reimbursed and then factored into an algorithm to determine his commission AND I don't know how MUCH of that 30k is, in fact, reimbursed as I can only see his payments to his credit cards, not the actual charges.

Are you really trying to stick another pin into my body??

Like most people here, I fear the worst. The unprofessional-sounding message is definitely a red flag. I'm sorry, Shero.

I agree with the earlier poster who suggested that you stop asking questions and go into detective mode. Because the more suspicious you appear, the more he'll cover his tracks and thus the more difficult it will be for you to discover the truth. It is extremely unlikely... (as in "You cannot be serious." Sorry) ....that he will confess to you that he's having an affair just because you've asked. Occasionally guilt prompts people to confess, but not usually a partner's questions. Affairs bring the roof down, even if the marriage survives, and few people are willing to do that unless they're forced to. I'm sure that if you want to know the truth, you're going to have to hide the fact that you're trying to find out what has been going on.

To start with, most credit cards now have online access. Does Amex? If so, I'd try to get online access to his personal Amex account. (I have this for my credit card, but also get paper statements.) If he was trying to hide the statement from you, I'm surprised that he hasn't done this already and stopped the paper statements. Apparently he hasn't, unless he is afraid that no paper statements will arouse more suspicion. But he may do so soon, anyway, in which case it will be more difficult, because you'll then need to work out his log-in details. So do it yourself very, very soon. You probably know enough of the security details to be able to set it up. I did, for my husband. (You can worry about him finding out and being angry AFTER you have seen the potential "evidence".) Once you have online access to a credit card, you can usually access past statements. Do that; print several copies; save them as files on a USB and hide tthe lot - preferably in at least one location other than your home. Just in case you need them at a later date. (I hope you won't, but better safe than sorry.)

I am also interested in the fact that the woman has been pulled off the relevant account. How do you know this? If your husband told you, and he is having an affair..... (Again, I hope he isn't, but you need to be prepared for it.)... he made have made it up, to reassure you. So you need to think of some way of checking on his story. If she has indeed been taken off the account, it could be because her company has realized that her relationship with your husband is more than merely a business one. Though it could also, of course, all be completely true and sheer coincidence.

I know we probably sound like a horribly suspicious lot - all thinking the worst. But sadly, the worst is so very often the case for people here. Until it happens to you, it is so very hard to believe it of the man you have long loved and trusted. So the tendency is to keep hoping you're imagining it and believing that what he says is true. We sympathize with your reaction and hopes, Shero, because we've almost all been there. I hope that in your case the worst is not true. But please be prepared and start taking the appropriate action now.

ETA Is his phone password protected? If so, do you know the password, or can you get it? Where does he put the phone at night? To charge? If it's by the bed and he's a heavy sleeper, could you possibly get hold of it and take it elsewhere to look through it? If he's having an affair, he'll probably be deleting the old text messages in either direction by now. But you might be able to look at the call and text log, at least.

[This message edited by Cally60 at 9:27 PM, July 16th (Wednesday)]

TS68, just realised I cannot pm you until I have posted 50 times. I will work on that. VAR on its way.

All, I have a lot of thoughtful posts to reply to and will attempt to do so later today, my IPad takes too long; waiting to get on my IMac. You all are incredible, thank you!

I'm sorry my post was so abrupt and came across as insensitive. I worry that any financial/legal implications of his A will harm you. Just please be careful and protect yourself.

Again, I'm sorry my post hurt you.

Hugs Shero! I'm dealing with suspicious activity of my partner, as well, and am in limbo at the moment. I know something isn't right and I have a little bit of proof, but nothing that I can feel strong enough to use. He's also a traveling business VP and constantly entertains - which has always been perfectly fine, until boundaries were crossed. Anyway, I'll hang around here and hope for updates from you as they come along.

Hang in there!

Shero, take a deep breath, we all know how you feel. Nobody is trying to stick pins in your body. We know this is painful. But you can't afford to not figure this out.

I was on the fence about whether it was an affair until I read the text "I want to see you". Then, his refusal to give up credit card statements etc. Also, the phrase he used in his denial of "passing interest". Cheaters will often, as someone else pointed out, say things on half truths, or accidentally use certain terms because it is hard to keep things straight, or admit to minor offenses in an attempt to appear honest.

Who says "I want to see you" to a business partner? I never would. There's been boundaries crossed if she has such a desire to see him and to speak to him this way, it's too familiar.

Who would use the phrase "passing interest" when attempting to assert they had not had an affair with a business partner? It's weird.

Ok, on to the actual catching of this. His cc is personal, get the statements. Take a picture of the front and back of the actual card, because not knowing one little thing (like whether his middle initial is on there) can be nerve racking when you trying to access something. Go online to the cc site. Figure out how to see the online statements.

Or, you know when the bill comes right? But he always grabs it first? Call the post office and put a temporary hold for your mail, like you are going on vacation, say you will pick it up from the post office on xx date. You should only need to do this for a few days, if you know almost exactly when his statement comes. He'll be watching, but oh well GASLIGHT, that's what they do to us. Play dumb. This is for your protection, quite literally. If there's nothing on there, oh well, you feel a little stupid. But I bet there is something, and I bet there's a lot. Then restart the mail again once you get the statement. Start putting aside some junk mail and stuff, that way you can still put it in your mailbox and when he's checking the mail it will look like the mail is still coming, but oh geez, not his statement!

His phone bill, if it's with the company forget about it. use the VAR (voice activated recorder) instead. In the car will tell you a lot. At home, wherever you think he may be talking on the phone. Even set it up that you will be gone at a movie or spin class or whatever on Tuesday nights or whatever time you think he may talk to her from home. Put VARs in the house.

[This message edited by OutoftheDeep at 3:05 PM, July 17th (Thursday)]