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I don't know. I think my husband loved me but he never thought about it. He knew he was unhappy with where we were at and loved the attention he was getting from OW.

The part I have a hard time with is the lying to my face about it and telling me he was happy. How he could do that and still "love" me and not feel bad about it?? I'll never understand.

Love is a relative term as many have already mentioned. No doubt that there have been time over the last 37 years there have been many highs and many lows in my love meter. The thing for me is that when we married, we pledged to love, honor and keep ourselves only for each other. It's all about commitment and I feel like the meaning of that word has become very watered down over the years.

I didn't necessarily feel a lot of love for him when he was neglecting me or treating me like a parasite but, I was committed and that drove my actions. I got my share of hits over the years but, I never once considered giving myself to another man even when I longed for intimacy and closeness.

Regardless what the feelings of *love* are at whatever season of life we are in, the commitment that was made when we entered into this contract called marriage should dictate honorable behavior. That is the polar opposite of what drives someone to cheat.

[This message edited by outtanowhere at 6:37 PM, August 1st (Friday)]

I loved my husband through it all. I really truly believed that what he didn't know wouldn't hurt him and that it was just exciting new sex. But I ached from it. Like an addiction where you need another fix and then hit a low. I was broken and so my love was broken but it wasn't gone.

And yes I compartmentalized until it all leaked together. My affair was not very long and so that is possibly why I never stopped loving my husband.

People do all sorts of horrible things...including cheating on their spouses--while loving them and being in love with them.

I am not rationalizing my behavior. It was wrong-hurtful-unloving-selfish. But if I stopped loving my husband, just because of stupid behavior---then he stopped loving me too long before.

An affair is what happens when a broken person chooses the wrong way to "feel better". Some people choose drugs, some people are workaholics, some people find a healthy hobby.

Some people are even smart enough to get proactive counseling and figure it out BEFORE they make destructive decisions.

I loved, love and am still in love with my husband. But we've both hurt each other. A lot.

Maybe he didn't use a relationship to feel better, but there are other ways to break someone's trust. And to cause immeasurable pain.

I'm happy to raise my hand. I am remorseful.

And I also know that TRUE love can endure.

[This message edited by sadmadsad at 7:44 PM, August 1st (Friday)]

I don't feel you fully understand compartmentalization, painfulpast.

Again, I disagree. It's not a challenging concept. When a WS looks right at a BS and lies, the compartmentalization cracks. It has to, because they're choosing to lie to go to A. Therefore, the worlds, even for a moment, collide, and the WS in that moment, choose the A.

Sorry my opinion isn't popular, but it's my opinion.

Bionic - I spend lots of time in WS. I see the 'I always loved my spouse", and I don't believe it. I think they mean it now, but I think that's thinking back to just how broken they were, and guilt, and realizing that they changed, not the BS, and the love returns, and feels like it never left.

And no, at no point did I say they loved AP, so to whomever made that comment, I don't think they ever loved AP. It's not a choice - that they have to love one or the other.

To all- all the rewriting that can happen - the WS believes that when they say it. That's not love, at all. They twist the truth and resent the hell out of the BS just for existing. That isn't love. And it is absolutely what they believe, wrong as it may be.

I don't have to agree with everyone else, and everyone else doesn't have to agree with me. I have my opinion, as everyone does. But, as stated, the lies, the disrespect, the rewriting - none of it are love, no matter what the WS realizes in hindsight. At that moment, during the A, when the WS will say anything to get to the A, (note I'm saying A and not AP), and rewrites everything, and twists the truth to blame the BS in the early days - none of that is love.

One thing is certain - we all agree that when actively cheating, the WS is broken, and often doesn't like or love themselves. And we all know that if you don't love yourself, you can't really love anyone else. So why is it so hard to believe that maybe, just maybe, our WSs did not love us when actively involved in the A?

If you forget you love someone, then you don't love them. Why is it that the BS walking away, and saying 'I'm done with this' is what often wakes the WS up? Because the thought of losing them makes them realize that they actually do care, or love, the BS. Until then, it's all about the WS, and no one else matters.

I don't have much to add, so I'll end my posting on this topic. I know others disagree, as this is a touchy subject. Love may mean different things to different people, but no one is going to say that love means lying, cheating, being disrespectful, blaming someone else for wrong actions, or anything else remotely tied to an A. And yet, somehow, I should believe I was loved when I was being lied to, talked about, my own history being rewritten, etc. No - that isn't love by anyone's definition. If they claim it is, they're a liar (shock - a cheater lying????). They want to appear to be the nice husband, but, when actively cheating, they are anything but. If love is an action, then there is no way in hell there is any love during an affair. If it's a feeling, then there's no way in hell there are wonderful loving feelings for BS during an A. Any way you look at it, it's not love. Not to me.

That's all.

You are wrong for others and right for yourself. Plain and simple. No human has perfect love. And many many people do things that aren't loving at times. Because they aren't perfect. Not all WS love their spouse. And it is so convenient to just say "they must be rewritting history" if you disagree. It is a stubborn cop out really. You can believe your WS didn't love you but you cannot tell someone else how they did or did not feel. That is arrogence.

I never told my husband a single lie during my affair. Or after. Loving my husband makesy betrayal worse in my eyes because I betrayed myself and that love for a cheap thrill.

People who make blanket statments always baffle me. You just can't know something like that about all people and all situations.

I have no doubt now that xWSO loved me through his many affairs and still does to this day, 4 years exactly to the day that his 2nd to last A started.

Is it compartmentalizing? Does he have a personality disorder or other major mental health issue? Or just an ass? Honestly don't know and try not to care.

Two things that may or may not be relevant, but they simultaneously popped into my head reading the post and responses:

1. xWSO said several times over 10 years "at least i come home to you". Thinking now this was him expressing his version of love. Like the As were no more significant to him than getting gas or groceries.

2. Year ago, when he wanted to try R, convo came up about dating and sex. Told him had dated and sex w 3 men (all half my age & totally hot ) since he mived out may 2011. His response: how could you have sex with someone you don't love? My response "yes,how do you do that?" (Turns out he was still with AP at the time.)

My honest answer was and still is it was only sex. We (the 3 young uns) and i agreed on that before anything physical happened. And we were all single, consenting adults with no other attachments (sig others).

Guess my point is it depends in how a person defines lovein the first place. What they believe love obligates them to do and allows them to do. Without knowing how a person defines love, this is impossible question to answer.

[This message edited by GetEvenInAZ at 3:03 AM, August 2nd (Saturday)]

When you are in love with someone all you think is her. You couldn't perform a sexual act with another one even if you were forced to.

Of course in long term relationships/marriages this "in love" feeling start to fade and be replaced by real love and other feelings.

Yes, you can love someone and cheat when you love yourself and your needs more, or if you have sexual issues you can't control. In both cases you have a problem.

Just wanted to say I agree with painfulPast. After talking things through with my sawh he came to agree with me. Many ws take some pleasure in the control their secrets give them, the power they've taken from their spouse. That feeling, playing secret squirrel, is totally incompatible with love. Obviously not every cheater feels the same way.

Love being defined differently by each person in a relationship is expected since we all have different baggage and upbringings.

But trying to say that you can still have that same feeling of love towards your spouse while you are excited or aroused by another person doesn't add up. Maybe a familiar sense of just being there, but a love of intimacy shared just between two people, no. That is why intimacy suffers, the bond has been broken and has been given to another. But what do I know, that was my version of what I thought love was/is.

I tend to agree with painfulpast. My definition of love implies fidelity. I like to use a sports analogy. If you really love your team you would never root for its rival. Now you can say some people can root for both. I would say you don't really love any one of those teams if you can do that

Excitement and arousal do not equal love.

Part of the confusion I think rests in thinking that affairs are about love. My H's affair was not about love...not a real relationship in my eyes. It was a fix... an escape. Can one be an alcoholic and still love someone? Yes. It is imperfect, but it is still love.

What I reject here is this idea that love can be shut on and off like a faucet, and that it is transferable, and that it has much, if anything to do with affairs. I don't know anyone that would say an affair is loving behavior towards a spouse, but to try to claim that they can't still love their spouse is too big a generalization to make in my opinion.

@ painful reminder - not telling something is also a lie, a lie by omission. Do you really believe it required a direct question and a deliberately false answer to be a lie? Lying via omission means they never even get enough info to even know they should ask a direct question and is just as insidious.

EDIT: changed my mind on posting my comment. Not that important.

[This message edited by painfulpast at 10:58 AM, August 3rd (Sunday)]

In short....NO! My WGF was honest enough to tell me as much. But now she says me loves me. I can't tell you how hard that is to reconcile in my mind. "I didn't love you then, but now I do. Trust me." Any wayward that has insight on that, it would be greatly appreciate.

painfulpast,

Thank you.

This a link to an interesting article in PsychCentral. http://psychcentral.com/lib/15-common-defense-mechanisms/0001251

This article speaks of 15 Primitive Defense Mechanisms. Compartmentalization being # 5.

Most defense mechanisms are fairly unconscious – that means most of us don’t realize we’re using them in the moment. Some types of psychotherapy can help a person become aware of what defense mechanisms they are using, how effective they are, and how to use less primitive and more effective mechanisms in the future.

5. Compartmentalization

Compartmentalization is a lesser form of dissociation, wherein parts of oneself are separated from awareness of other parts and behaving as if one had separate sets of values. An example might be an honest person who cheats on their income tax return and keeps their two value systems distinct and un-integrated while remaining unconscious of the cognitive dissonance.

Looking someone in the eye and lying doesn't crack the compartmentalization. One does not effect the other. They are totally separate in the waywards (or anyone using compartmentalization) mind.

In my personal situation, FWH has said he always loved me. He told OW upfront he wasn't ever going to leave me, that the arrangement was strictly FWB's, NSA.

To me, it is a moot point. He loved me, he screwed OW. He didn't love me, he screwed OW. How is one better than the other? The intent, the screwing of OW, is and was the same.

That being said, I believe my FWH loved me. We are reconciling. I don't feel it is my place to tell him that his feelings don't line up with the way I believe I would feel in the same situation. His feelings are his. It is not my place to tell him his feelings are right or wrong, or that they are a lie. He loved me the best he could love me, or himself, at the time. It wasn't a healthy, mature love. It was selfish and self serving.

My definition of love is: Putting someone else's happiness, safety, comfort, and needs above my own. Now, both FWH and I try to live everyday putting each other as our #1 priority. To truly have each others back. I don't have to worry about my needs, because he does that for me. He now knows, and realizes that I did before, that I will take care of his, so he doesn't have to selfishly seek them out somewhere else.

We wouldn't be able to do this if we told each other that our feelings were a lie. We have to trust and respect each other, and that includes our feelings.

To me, it is a moot point. He loved me, he screwed OW. He didn't love me, he screwed OW. How is one better than the other? The intent, the screwing of OW, is and was the same.

Best comment yet, imo of course

In the end, does it matter? Does it help or hurt that someone could love their spouse and still cheat? I have no clue on that one, not even a guess. Great point SM.

Authenticnow (and other mods) - I apologize. It will never happen again, promise. Thanks for the heads up - always appreciated

OP's question was, can you cheat on someone you love? We could answer every question in Wayward, "Does it really fucking matter? You cheated! Your head was up your ass!" and while technically true, it's not particularly edifying.

Yes, of course, I will always maintain that I loved BH during my A's. Did I have a funny way of showing it? Well, yeah, clearly. It reminds me of the joke about the Midwestern guy who loved his wife so much, he almost told her.

If you ask me *how* I was able to cheat on the husband I claimed to love, my one-word answer is "dissociation." See Sister's article and quotes, above. I had never heard of it, but Shrink One says dissociation was my go-to maladaptive coping mechanism.

Or maybe I was just a selfish, entitled bitch.

Yes, in the end, it matters. OP's question deserves as much serious consideration and reflection as any other.

We wouldn't be able to do this if we told each other that our feelings were a lie. We have to trust and respect each other, and that includes our feelings.

Amen, Sister.

I am sorry I was unclear about the point being moot for me, as a BS, 20Wrongs.

I do believe that it is important for the WS to figure out their feelings before, during and after the affair about their BS.

But as far as for a BS, I personally don't feel it matters to me if my FWH loved me during the affair or not. To others it may matter. I probably would have preferred for him to hate me and not screw the OW as opposed to loving me and screwing the OW! *shrug*