SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Cashflow, thanks again for the advice.

1. I have not moved out of the marital bedroom, she has. She now sleeps on the couch. It's a pity party because we have a nice guest room. She sent me an email today stating she was moving out in September.

2. I see what you are saying and I will work on that. I was able to communicate with her today about DD. She sent me an email wanting confirmation I would pick up DD at sitter after school tomorrow. I replied back "confirmed, I will be there". I will be really cautious here because I see her gears moving. Because she sent me several emails during the afternoon, nothing to do with DD, she was feeling me out. I only responded with short answers. She later asked how come I would not return emails. I said I have been, what emails have I not repaired to? She did not answer.

Thank you again for the heads up, I will be cautious as I navigate this minefield.

I suggest you buy a VAR and keep it on you at all times when interacting with your WW. It would not be the first time a WW files a false report of DV in order to get a better position in a D and / or custody or to get you out of the house. This happens more then you think. It happened to me and it was a nightmare trying to clear my name. Don't think the law is on your side either, they will go full steam ahead even if she is lying. Any man accused of DV, false or not is assumed guilty. That's just the way it is my man. While I understand your willingness for the 180 and may I say you seem to be doing really good for a guy with little time under your belt, you might want to give her the illusion that you are going to play nice in the sand box in regard to the D. It just makes things easier for you until you get your ducks lined up. It also makes the WS think they have the upper hand and are in control. That leads to them making mistakes that you can document and use in your case. Cheaters are all about control and when you take it away from them they freak the fuck out and throw hissy fits. Best to let them think they being slick and getting away with yet another one. It also makes things that much more satisfying when you drop the bomb on them. Hang in there brother !!!!

Ugh! Really struggling today! DD's first day of school. I stayed home until bus came, been seeing her off on her first day every year except the year we were 200 miles apart. It is crushing to me. She has no idea what's ahead and WW is just going about it like life is all wonderful.

WW texted me today and asked if she needed to get a babysitter for Saturday. I replied, "Why?" She said because I have my women's retreat this weekend and I thought you would do something. I simply replied no, I will plan to spend the day with DD. What I really wanted to say was WTF! Are you kidding me? You were never concerned before about the well being of DD and me! And she's going to some women's retreat for church? Really? Ugh, the hypocrisy.

She is also hounding me about filing for divorce. I do not reply to that. I believe she is getting free legal advice from one if her past OM. Because the emails and texts are almost set ups. I answer them, I am not rude I just answer the questions. The tone of the texts and emails are not from her, I can tell. So I am treading lightly. I don't know if she's retained an attorney. She may have, guess I will find out. My goal for tomorrow is getting the pile of paperwork I have back to my attorney to get the D filed. She still keeps talking about dissolution or separation. Both of which no grounds are needed.

Sorry for the rant, I just needed to unload a little.

Thank you all for the advice. I need all the help I can get. I am dealing with a professional here!

Needing some advice/help/thoughts!

Yesterday WW decided she is moving out next month, 'when she has the money to do so'. She made a point last night of telling me that she had to contact some mutual people for references for her apartment. I said, ok. She then later called me asking for one of our mutual acquaintances phone number. I gave it to her. Followed by another phone call, dropping the 'moving into an apartment when I have the money together' line on me. I saw where it was going. Because this morning I got a text from her at 4:30, from the sofa, "I'm scared, I feel like the devil has a hold if me and no amount of prayers is going to get him to let go". Later I got some inspirational pic from her about the hardest math we do is count blessings. No reply from me to either text. Later I went downstairs for a glass of water. She said "your done aren't you". I said nothing and retuned upstairs.

I don't want my family broken, especially for DD, because I have tolerated WW's BS for all if these years for that reason only. She is a precious child and at an age where the breakup of the family is going to be very traumatic, I know that no age would be any different, but it's my child and when I look at her and she is oblivious to what has happened and what is happening it rips my heart out. I have not cried in 12 years, that is when we lost our son, but this is bringing me to my knees. In DD's mind, our family is the equivalent to the perfect tv family. She knows no different. But I cannot live with a liar, manipulator and a cheater.

I think I know what has happened here, one of the following or all. 1). She is coming out of the alcohol induced fog. She has been on good behavior since Monday, which is a long stretch for her and she is realizing she may have really f'ed up this time. 2). Reality is setting in and she is realizing she had it made in the shade and she realizes that she cannot do it on her own. 3). She checked her bank account and realized, oh crap, She better be nice because shes going to be broke before her next payday, next Friday. 4). A possible reason, OM has decided that he didn't want her for the reasons she thought and because she has been unavailable to him this week, he kicked her to the curb. Unlikely, but possible.

I am planning to move forward with at least S, if anything put her on notice that I'm not tolerating her crap any longer. She has not retained an attorney because she cannot afford one. She sent me emails yesterday stating 50/50 custody and that is all she wants. She also said she is going to type something up for us both to sign (I was a work and I about fell out of my chair-are you kidding, I'm not signing crap) She is very confused and just messed up.

She got irritated at DD this morning because DD was being difficult and not listening to her. She got pissed at me and said "if your not going to help out around here let me know". I bit my tongue and talked to DD about getting ready for school and listening to both if us. DD has told me in the past, why should I listen to mommy, she's never around anyway. She proceeded to do as asked. WW was a little pissed because I called her on the after school babysitting arrangements that she set up. The mutual friend who is to watch DD was not home. DD and her friend had to stay with friends grandpa. I about flipped. I asked WW if she knew about that and she said yes. I asked why I was not informed. I also asked, are you aware there "may" be times when DD will be there alone with her friend? She said 'yes, but for only 5-10 minutes'. I told DD that if said babysitter is not present when she gets there I need to know. I said I will be there to get you. I live <15 minutes away. This kind of angered WW because she works >40 minutes from home, 60 with traffic.

I later got a text on my way to work asking if we can talk on Sunday after her church retreat. She said she is going to write everything down and try to make sense of it. Another text stating, 'if we do pull it together, I need to change my priorities'. YA THINK! I did not respond to her cries for help at this time. I only step in when DD is involved.

Any advice on what my next move should be would be appreciated. First priority is DD and her stability.

[This message edited by Hoosierbuckeye at 7:29 AM, August 21st (Thursday)]

You have been living this hell for far too long.

She needs serious mental help!

She should have been in IC a long time ago!

There is no other answer, she needs intensive IC right now. Because her actions are not going to stop.

She is not going to just one day stop needing to have affairs. She needs other guys for attention or whatever But she is never going to stop until she gets IC.

If I were you, I would not live this way one more day. You should get on the phone and call every therapist you can find. Find out their qualifications. Find out their opinions on women in affairs, and the need for outside validation, etc.

Has your wife ever mentioned childhood problems, abuse, etc. Because she has some serious issues and they have to be dealt with immediately. They should have been dealt with already.

What do her parents say about her actions?

I don't know how you have lasted this long with a wife who knowingly has affairs, has a drinking problem and continues to stay out all hours of the night.

This is a serious problem. You can either get her help immediately or divorce her and hope you never have problems with her again. Otherwise, your entire life is going to be filled with this misery.

Craig2001, thank you!

I am here for some guidance and support and I appreciate those words.

She has gone to counseling in the past but it was always a bust. She would become friends with the counselor. Hanging out with them, going to dinner, going "out". One time we went as a couple many years ago for some minor issues in the beginning, and I thought WTF is this? I felt ganged up on because I had done nothing wrong, but it was all about me and my issues. She is the queen of manipulation, to the point she even tricks trained professionals.

Her parents are both deceased. I am her only family. Her sisters and her fight all if the time, there's no moral compasses there. She has nothing to do with her brother (part if childhood issue that I did not learn about until about 4-5 years ago). My parents and family accepted her and made her a part of our family because she was parent less. My parents treated her as their own daughter. I have found out this week that she screwed them out of $4k about four years ago. My parents told me the entire sorted tale and I asked why I was not involved and they said because they trusted her. Like we all have.

She absolutely needs some sort of validation from men. Which I don't understand. I am no slouch and I treated her like a queen. I have a great job, I am personable, people love me and love to be in my presence. I get looks and hit on all of the time, but I could never, ever act on those impulses because no matter how much I am angry at her for what she has done to me, I know it's wrong while married and I think about DD and I would be doing that to DD's mother. The men she chooses are usually "step downs". Not as attractive, not as gainfully employed, so go figure. I'm sure there is a reason behind that.

How did I last this long? Simple. DD. I always new, but I chose to ignore it and focus on the child and protect her from the fallout. The child was not really affected, because she would carry on while I was at work and child was at school. Now it does affect the child, the child knows something is up and acts out against her routinely and she is ill equipped to handle the child one on one. The child is brilliant/boarder line genius and she pushes WWs buttons. I think the 11 yo may be smarter than the 44 yo.

Thanks again.

HoosierBuckeye

You have it right. She is only starting to act decent because she is broke, and her AP cannot support her the way you do.

I have been following your thread and do not know how you have been able to put up with it. I think it is time for that to end.

HB, your child as she gets older CANNOT function in the current environment as it has been. Is the example you want to have of her mother being watching her go out and fuck other men four nights a week what you want her to see in her puberty years. At 11, you have not much more time before she figures out exactly what is going on.

I know all about the need for validation from men. Been living with my wife;s problem for a long time. Check my profile, or take my word for it, it is not easy. but combining that with the drinking and substance abuse is a killer.

I believe you are Plan B, a nice safe home base to use in between escapades, and you have let it go on too long, which is why it continues.

Do not use child as reason anymore to not take action. You know what you need to do or it will not end.

Hope you do it.

BTW. I am an IU Hoosier

I have never heard of any therapist going out with a patient. I would have been livid and reported that therapist to whatever state board controls them.

That is why I suggested you call therapists first and discuss this with them. No more lying, no more blaming you.

This is all hers and IC needs to fix the childhood issues, whatever they are, her current issues and her drinking problem.

You might have a good job, but you do not make enough money to solve your wife's drinking problems if she gets in a wreck drunk and you are sued.

Her debts are your debts.

44 years old, that is getting rather old to continue this behavior. You cannot continue to live like this, it is unfair. And you will someday look back on your life wondering what the hell you wasted it for.

Your wife runs out of money, doing what with it?

She continually threatens to move out.

Once again, you cannot continue to live like this.

I am no slouch and I treated her like a queen.

That doesn't matter one bit. Don't even think about it anymore.

That is not what she wants and not what she is looking for. She is looking for someone HER equal.

Someone who validates HER.

And the only people who can do that are people that think like her. The whole world is against them. She needs to be with drinkers as well, sit there and drink all day and night complaining AND agreeing with each other.

You cannot give her those things, because you are not on her level.

Your wife most likely feels she is not good enough for you. So this constant low self esteem and pity party she has will just go on and on and on.

This is exactly why her OM are always less than you. And it is why many times the WS will "affair down".

She needs a well qualified and well versed in these matters therapist and right now. No more buddy buddy therapist.

Badhurt, you are correct in all of your points. Thanks.

Craig2001, yes I thought it was odd too about the therapists. But, looking back, that was a long time ago before this craziness and I didn't think much about it, I found it odd but I was unaware of the deep issues also. I thought she just like going to therapists because that's what the other suburban wives did. But looking back and connecting the dots, here is what I think it is. She always "friends upward" with females. They are usually always very attractive and usually younger. The therapists were younger and attractive. She would manipulate and get them to like her, then they became "friends" and the liked her, it would VALIDATE her. So she was being validated by a younger, attractive woman, so she's alright. In the recent history, I have set her up to contact therapists. Not exactly that profile, usually older and a mix of M and F. She would say, I didn't like them for this reason or that reason and usually ended by "I felt like I was being judged".

Also, the sooner I get her on her own, the sooner DD and I can move on. She is such a train wreck.

If you've read this entire thread, I believe I have mentioned how she takes little interest in DD's extra curricular activities. As I sit here and type this, she just emailed me and said that because the weather is nasty out she's not planning to take DD to an activity tonight they had planned, because the weather is bumming her out. So I plan to take DD to said event myself. I would bet if she knew there were 35 yo guys there with a case of beer and a slot machine she would find the motivation to get off her ass to get there!

Also, the sooner I get her on her own, the sooner DD and I can move on.

What do you mean get her on her own?

It does sound like she is not interested in any kind of help, all she wants is to play games. Felt like she was being judged, she doesn't want help at all. She likes playing games.

Wouldn't it be easier and safer to get a divorce. When you say get her on her own, if you and her are still married, you are still responsible for whatever damage and debts she racks up.

With such a train wreck running around, wouldn't it be much safer to be divorced instead of living apart.

Before you soften and start going gooey and letting your guard down, please please please get a VAR and keep it with you at all times.

Her behavior has gone on for too long except now she sees you are serious, hence the good behavior, but she's only playing nice because there's a realization that she had it good and starting over again might not be an option, especially with her extracurricular activities. Not a lot of men will settle for that.

Stay on course and stay on D. If she truly wants to change then she will do it, without prompting and pushing. True remorse can't be faked, hence you see her being nice for a couple of days and when it's not washing, all the anger comes out.

You have protected her for far too long to the point where she has endured zero consequences for her actions. She is so used to it that she is now starting to simmer under the pressure of being on her own.

Like your situation, each time there was an excuse, each time I was given the blame for her 'making a mistake'. If you don't know this already, it is NOT you. It is HER. Only she is responsible and accountable for the decisions she makes and the actions she takes. NOT YOU.

Much of what you've posted is like looking in my rear view mirror, the job relocation, etc. though nobody moved back from where we came from but my XWW started in with the neighbor 2 doors down within a year of moving to the new neighborhood. Like you, I protected my XWW from everyone and everything. For me it was not substance abuse of any kind but emotional abuse of me, the multiple EA's, the PA's, etc. over a long period of time. All because I didn't want to put the kids through a D. I finally couldn't take it any more and when DS was 13 and DD was 16(10 years too late IMO) I threw her ass out.

I think you're proceeding as you should. STAY STRONG. Do NOT fall into her pity party. IMO she's come to expect your protection, your providing for her and she is trying to manipulate you into continuing to do so. She is going to have to hit rock bottom to even begin to think of changing.

I fell for the manipulation, the crocodile tears, the false remorse, for a year and a half after I kicked XWW out and it was all a colossal waste of time, money, and emotions as I ended up going through with the D anyway. All that kicking her out served to was provide unfettered access to the crotch regions of any man that would give her the time of day all the while attending MC with me and lying to my face and the counselor.

Don't be me.

[This message edited by PNWDad at 3:31 PM, August 21st (Thursday)]

Craig2001, get her on her own = D and out if my life before she does anymore damage.

[This message edited by Hoosierbuckeye at 3:46 PM, August 21st (Thursday)]

PNWDad - Thank You!

I plan to stay the course!

D is inevitable here, there will be NO R!

I AM DONE!

I am just trying to navigate this minefield and make each move cautiously. I am dealing with a narcissist who believes she has done nothing wrong.

I did not start this war, but I have every intention of winning it!

Helmet on-safety off!!!!

[This message edited by Hoosierbuckeye at 8:58 AM, August 22nd (Friday)]

Starting to get REAL for WW now.

WW emailed me this morning concerning DD and a situation at school. I told her "I would handle it". Just like any response I have given her in the past when it relates to DD. With the assumption that when it comes to DD, I will handle it, no concerns. Then she snaps back "what does that mean? I need clarification." All of this grave concern for DD after lying to her continuously and missing events for the past 6 months. I work 10 mins from school, she works 45 mins+. Over the past year I have spent numerous days in the school either picking up DD as a surprise so she didn't have to go to after school sitter or I have taken lunch to school and had lunch with DD and her friends. Been in the building so much so that the front office personnel know me and when I walk into the cafeteria many of the kids are are waving at me and trying to get my attention "coach, coach, coach".

Then I handle the situation, copy her in the emails and she sends me an email, "I miss your hugs". Better get used to missing a lot of stuff sister! I just ignore those emails, as stated previously. DONE!

Just needed to vent.

Good job staying strong! Being 'DONE' is huge. Once you can say it, feel it, live it, you are going to be much better off. That is what finally allowed me to keep my eyes on the prize of the D and not care about anything she said. It will be rough for a while but 4 years out I can say it was the best decision I ever made.

You are showing remarkable resolve for so soon after DDay though it has been a long time coming much like my situation was. If you are like I was, there would be a flicker of hope, days where your resolve may weaken, but you sound like you're handling that well and are not letting it cloud your vision.

You are performing 180 101 to the letter. Good job. Keep your responses to the point, nothing else and only when they pertain to the children. If she missed your hugs that much, she wouldn't be in this situation.

Keep us posted and good luck!

I came here a week ago because I had no where else to turn. I was very confused because of words and actions by WW. She insisted nothing was happening outside of our marriage, she showed me affection and she insisted I was the only one for her. Less than 12 hours after my initial post, she informed me she wanted a divorce. She was moving out and blah, blah, blah. I simply said, "ok" and began preparing myself. Because there were some replies to my initial thread and I had done some reading of other threads, I quickly learned I am not alone. Although at the time, I felt like it. I have had the range of emotions over the past week. Hurt, anger, sadness and at times relief. Hurt, of course, this goes without saying, who can trust, forgive, trust, forgive and on and on and on? Anger, of course I was angry. I thought how dare you! You selfish, self centered pos. I have put up with your crap for how long, provided for you and forgave you over and over and over, worked on me for this marriage each time there was an excuse, then you drop a bomb on me you want to simply walk away because "your not happy"? Sadness for DD, who if you've read this thread is the only reason I stayed in this hell for as long as I did. I can tolerate almost anything for my DD and I would go to the end of the earth for her. Much like I was willing to do for WW because they are/were my family. Many times over the past week I have had the vision of life without WW in it. Even she has noticed because she commented the other day that I seemed happier. I don't know that I am or will be, but I have already had a look into the future and I am hopeful that it is DD and me and she would just go away. That is a horrible thing to say about DD's mother, but I know once the fireworks start it will be all my fault that DD is without her family together.

Went to dinner with WW over the weekend to talk. I am not sure what she was expecting but I'm sure she didn't get out of it what she wanted. She felt me out on and off all weekend with text messages , all going unanswered. At dinner, I did not tip my hand about the infidelity. I simply told her I was getting off the damn roller coaster. I don't know if she knows she is wrong and is simply playing a game or if she in genuinely that stupid.

Emails at work today again feeling me out, again testing the water by asking me a professional question and asking for some guidance. I did take the opportunity to answer those. Basically telling her I am moving on. Her and her stuff are no longer a priority or concern of mine. DD and myself are my priority. She said she was sorry I was hurting. I replied, what makes you think I am hurting. I don't have time to hurt, besides that, the hurt tank is drained, I have to have strength for DD because the road ahead for her is going to be difficult. She snapped back, that's how it's always been. Never our marriage. I fell out of my chair and thought, WHAT? I replied back to that one line with many examples of me trying to be present for her. I reminded her that she is the one who chooses to "go out with friends" instead of spending time with her husband and leave me with DD. I said what do you think would happen? DD and I bonded even more because we had common ground, we were left at home wondering when she would be home. "Going out with friends" = screwing around with guys she met on the dating website. She said, it's obvious I have work to do.

I guess she wants to hear me begging to "fix" our marriage again. Because that's what happened in the past. Because the affairs were always my fault. Because I would devote too much time to my job, so I changed jobs twice in the past five years. A hobby, well I gave up any hobbies 7!years ago and I don't even play golf anymore. Now it's DD, I guess being a devoted father and catering to your only child is wrong. It's always something. And believe it or not there were countless times of me over the past several years trying to engage her as my wife and make our marriage as important as being parents. Like date nights that never happened, nothing like being turned down for a date by your own wife.

I still check the dating website and her profile is still there. I guess I look to see if there is even a glimmer of hope to save this and I want to know if she is really serious. Each day I look it just reinforces what I am going to do, BE DONE! I know it's active because she still gets emails and reads them from the website of guys who have sent her messages, added her as a friend and even "made a connection as a march". Ugh, sickening even typing it.

I just popped on here to vent. There won't be a confrontation over the dating website or her going out or anything going forward. I am keeping all of those tidbits for my attorney. She's playing nice because she has no where to go. She was all hell bent last week on getting an apartment and moving out. I guess she likes sleeping on my sofa, using my shower, eating my food and living in a nice house too much. Well I am playing nice too, just not acknowledging her. "Good night, sleep well", "ok". "I hope you have a great day", "I will". "You are looking good today", "thanks". It's an ugly, ugly game being played and I have had to stoop to her level of deception. I feel dirty and just plane gross but it is a game she started and I intend to finish.