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Marbou 888 Your point is well taken and I will seriously have to consider that. May I ask if you speak from experience?

I have already had some daggers in my heart and I realize that full disclosure could bring back the trauma I had in the beginning. She said a few things that I believe were some kind of release from her troubled mind that causes me heartache. I stated in my original post that I would explain how I think she has mental problems concerning this affair. So here goes.

In the beginning as this was unfolding we were in the backyard and I told her how there are men who will tell women that they are unhappy with their wife and that you are the one for them and will divorce their current wife to be with you. I said the whole time they are just leading you on taking advantage of you sexually. As I was talking she muttered under her breath " Yea I finally figured out he was only interested in the sex". I was stunned and froze up not knowing what to say and it caused further trauma to my psyche. Later when I mentioned what she said she said she did not remember saying that.

One day I remarked to her despite all her denials that I wondered who ended it and what she had told him about me. She responded " The reason I fell in love with you is because you are so kind and loving. I had no idea why she responded like that and told her I loved her and went to the den. About 15 minutes later she was standing in the dining room which is on one end of the house some some 40 ft from the den on the other end where I am sitting in front of the TV. She says " I never told anyone anything about you". Again I am stunned and frozen and do not respond. A couple of days later we are going down the stairs and out of the blue while behind me says " I never told any man or woman anything about you". Once again I am stunned and just said "OK". I knew by these strange statements that indeed she did talk about me and is felling guilt about it.

From the beginning of when we found out about our Son's WS and before I had suspicions about my wife she said things concerning his wife that I think she was comparing to her own affair. She remarked how our Son's wife was flattered that a younger man was interested in her. Our Son told us he found out that the guy our daughter in law was involved with went back to his wife. My wife commented "yea he told her to back to her husband and it was off to the next one". I know it did not happen that way because my Son busted them and it broke up that way with his wife finding out since he lost his job because of the affair. I believe my wife was dumped by her partner and I have found out he has a reputation as a philanderer. I believe her comment about going back to your husband happened to her. How can she ever admit that to me acknowledging that I am second choice. Hard pill to swallow.

Back in November the counselor I was seeing then said I really needed to connect with her and I was trying to do that even though I felt we were fine except for the discovery of her affair. I have had a problem with her for years not looking me in the eyes when she said she loves me and commented many times that it bothers me and she would look at me then with big bug eyes saying she has a problem looking so closely like that. One afternoon I grabbed both her hands and told her she was the love of my life and told her to look me in the eyes because I wanted to feel that back. She could not look me in the eyes and stared at my forehead and big tears formed in her eyes and rolled down her face. I took it like she did not really love me but when I recounted the event to my counselor she said that was her guilt coming thru and it made sense to me. That event tells me why she has a problem looking me in the eye when we are intimate. But since all this has occurred she can sometimes actually look me in the eyes and say she loves me and I know she means it.

Our sex life is good and feel fortunate that I can still perform although admit that I sometimes take a Cialis to enhance the process. Making love seems to help me a lot in trying to overcome all the bad feelings this infidelity has caused.

[This message edited by apom at 7:00 AM, April 20th (Monday)]

Great post apom. It is tough sledding.

Yes it is hard to compete against a fantasy. It is also hard for a WW to accept that the 'emotional reality' was just a cognitive distortion. And thus only in her head. With the fantasy feeling so real, like a drug, I can imagine that it is very difficult to cease trying to search for it. Or to create further false expectations for the marriage.

Casting yourself as Plan B presumes there is a Plan A. Most always there isn't one. Just emotional chaos..

Apom,

Have you started to think about what you are going to do to get to the bottom of this ?

Apom, I also found out (for sure) years later. I am morbidly amazed at the similarities of the nightmare expressed here by different people.

I am 63 and married almost 38 years. I took early retirement at age 55 just as our life plan and dreams were laid out. We had established a cow herd and were going to retire from salaried positions and be ranchers.

In December, 2002 I knew something was terribly wrong. I confronted then and many times since because the explanations didn't make sense. Gaslighting, blameshifting. Never a confession. The adultery was with a COW who was married and when he and my WW were getting started his wife and he were still living together. His wife left him in the fall of 2002 because she found evidence of him committing adultery with a different woman. All of the contact between them was through work avenues to which I had no access. He was caught by his BW on the other adultery by cell phone records so my WW told him to never call her and he didn't very much.

My WW had advanced quite rapidly and was in charge of a very major project that was stressful. She managed her staff (he was one of them) very well and carried out an extremely successful campaign. I was so proud of her and she fucked her AP in hotels all over the province while they were travelling together.

The adultery lasted about 4 years. She went on anxiety medication in the fall of 2003 which I thought was because of the major project. It was but, IMO, also because she was very active in adultery. The meds allowed her to continue in adultery with little stress. They were in contact from time to time since 2006 (the 4 years). She says there was nothing physical since then.

I finally put together all of my circumstantial evidence, gave it to her and she confessed on Sept. 1, 2013. The lies by fact and omission lasted all of that time. I was pretty sure there had been adultery but we were pretty good together so I was probably wrong. But my gut said there was something terribly wrong.

Like your story,apom, there is much more to mine. I just wanted to relate this to you so you know you are not the only one. Others hare have posted their circumstances and too many of them are so similar.

When my WW confessed I was sure that there had been adultery and I just needed the confirmation because there was something missing, something special, in our marriage. I was totally unprepared for the effect it had on me. Initially I felt releif - I wasn't paranoid, I wasn't hyper-jealous, I wasn't over reacting, I wasn't demented, etc., etc. That lasted only a few minutes until reality hit me. I attempted suicide the next day. I had suicidal thoughts for some time. I was not eating (couldn't swallow solids), not sleeping (on the internet throughout the night grasping at anything). Not functioning. I don't remember hadly anything - just little chunks here and there.

You are 6 months past DDay. That 6 months, for me, was horrendous. Why didn't I do more, why didn't I trust my instincts, why didn't I hire a PI, why didn't I, why didn't I, why didn't I....? In that 6 months 3 more DDays, tons of TT, gaslighting, blameshifting, minimizing.

I need to know details. I am a detail person. I am very analytical (while a valuable characteristic in my professional life probably a detriment here). I don't get details. A lot of IDK, ICR. And little or no effort to fill in the massive gaps. No timeline yet.

My WW took a polygraph. She passed with "flying colours" on the 4 questions I had. See Craig2001 for more info on polygraphs and elsewhere on SI.

I just wanted to warn you that it gets worse. After the numbness and anguish in the first 6 months comes anger. I had rage during the first 6 months followed by curled up in a fetal position wretching, sobbing anguish. The anger is different. It is coming. The adultery was a long time ago. The lies continued though and, as said above, it was yesterday for you. Until you get remorse and true reconciliation beginning be prepared for many "start overs".

Your dillema and mine and others who have posted here is what do we do at our age. When I was 52 I had a lot of options. I have few now. I are pretty set financially together but not apart. I carried on making our dreams and goals happen and she fucked her NSA FWB. I loved her so deeply and feel like I have been used for 38 years. I do believe she loves me as much as she is capable of loving anyone. I don't have any other dreams or goals in life and I can't imagine starting over now. But the status quo is not an option either. Trying to pick the best choice out of two very lousy options.

Sorry I am so long winded, apom. I am always apologyzing for that. You are not alone (I was somewhat relieved when I found out I wasn't). It is a shitty situation for which you are not to blame. The adultery is entirely on your WW as it is on mine. If she truly loves you and is interested in your health she will do what she needs to do for you.

I am sorry for your need to be here. You will find, I am sure, that given your circumstances it is the place you needed to find. I wish I had found it in 2002 instead of the internet sites that provided such wrong and hurtful advice that I took.

God be with you and all of us as we try to navigate through this.

Bottom line is you knew and now you know. The fact she could not look you in the eyes is huge and proves she felt guilty. BUT, if she is so guilty, why will she not answer all of your questions.

There is real guilt and remorse and there is false guilt or the poor me I did wrong attitude.

She needs to learn and understand the total hell she is now putting you through. Lying is never good, and secrets do nothing but create a wall.

As long as the wall of secrets and lies remains in place, you are just thinking things are getting better, until the next time you ask her and she denies you all of the answers to all of your questions.

Lying and secrets is really the height of selfishness. And that is not guilt, it is CYA.

SteadyChevy,

Great, insightful post. Very on target about the anger issues that come out later, and the horrible dilemma faced when you find out at this period in your life.

Sadly, I know because we have a similar story. Mine just had a longer gap between the affair and the unraveling of the web of lies.

Apom, I'm really trying to put myself in your shoes and I have to admit it is difficult. You are living one of the nightmare scenarios I wanted to avoid in my own situation. It is one of the reasons I chose divorce.

However, reading that you and your wife are in your 60s and your choices, as you said, are limited I can only imagine were I in your shoes I could only move forward dealing with the truth, up front and center.

I would write a letter to her explaining why you KNOW, not think, that she had an affair. Write everything down that pointed you to this conclusion.

Then I would print off Joseph's letter below and let her read that after your letter.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/joseph.asp

I would sit with her the entire time she reads those two letters because I would want gauge hee body language, her reaction, her emotions. She is either going to choose to let the truth set herself free from the weight of her guilt or dig her her grave early with it.

Depending on what she does after reading those two letters I would think your choice on how to move forward would become clearer. This takes a lot of courage to do, but I think between you both you are the one strong enough to lead the way forward in facing that truth.

Apom, what I meant is a lot of it is personal. I don't know how you would react. I can only feel your hurt and give advice through my own experience.

My wife had 2 affairs that I know of and I think that is probably the extent of it. My wife is a creature of habit and of the two OM's, one was her first boyfriend and the other was a fuck friend she had before we were married.

The first DDay was Nov 92. I caught on fairly fast and they met only 3 or 4 times before I put an end to it. OM's wife was told and that was quite a story that I will put on here soon. I told my wife that I would tell her mother (Attila the Hun - but MIL loves me as her son-in-law) of the affair. My wife was terrified. That was the end. It took 2 or 3 years for me to get over this. OM was quite a lowlife so I didn't feel threatened. I did not want to hear the details and I never did.

Affair #2:DDay Jan 98 My eldest son was going to university in Sept 96 and I figured I would save money if I bought a condo instead of renting an apartment. As we leave the lawyer's building after completing the purchase, my wife and I notice the building across the street is for sale, and the real estate agent is fuckfriend. The way my wife looked at that for sale sign, I knew her little cheating wheels were spinning 100 mph. Of course, I asked her if she was thinking about bedding him. She acted all insulted and told me he was just a POS. (Actually, I now know that when my wife belittles a man in front of me, it is only a smoke sceen). During the school year, my wife makes excuses to go to the condo to help my son clean up. I suspect her intentions and warn her I might drop in, but she goes once or twice a month anyway (My son would sometimes call and say he hadn't eaten a good meal in days and good mummy would drive 60 miles to prepare meals for the week). I became suspicious and asked her if she was having an affair, something she quickly denied.

October 97, my son had to have an operation and put his studies on hold for medical reasons. I noticed a strange phone number on his caller ID and I tracked this number to the business next door to fuckfriend's real estate office. Nov 97, after putting some of the pieces together, I ripped into my wife and accused her of having an affair with fuckfriend. She was speechless. She later told me she was so terrified of the way I reacted that she promised herself she would never cheat on me again. From October 97 to January 98, our son was back at our house to recuperate. After my son returned to the condo in Jan 98, he called my wife and told her fuckfriend had called. My VAR was on the line and I heard my wife say "I'll have to call him and tell him never to call again". That affair was over and, to my knowledge, she never saw him again. I wasn't interested in the details. After a year or two, I got over it.

Now apom, here is the part that hurt. September 2013,15 years later, I'm having a discussion with my wife about allergies. Then, out of the blues, she says:"Oh yes, do you remember that time you used condoms with powder on them, I was allergic to that powder and it itched like crazy". My answer:"Dear, I have never used condoms with powder on them, I think you are confusing me with your fuck friend". She turned as white as a ghost and was speechless for the rest of the evening. I was stunned because I had an instant recall of the night before my son was to be operated. My wife had spent the day supposedly to support my son and I was to drive after work and meet them for supper and I was taking the next day off. During the evening, my wife started complaining of vaginal itching and burning. It was very severe, she was in tears. She asked me to look at her pussy and vagina to see what was wrong. The only strange thing I noticed was a white powder all over her pussy. At the time, I had no idea condoms with powder existed and when I asked her about the powder, she just screamed and cried about how much her pussy hurt.

I now knew where the powder came from and that hurt me probably more than it did her. I now had the evidence that the day before my son was to have an operation, wify was not there for him, she was screwing fuckfriend. That is certainly a detail I could have gone without. I had all but put behind that affair, but it suddenly returned to the forefront and was a big dagger to my heart.

Apom, I realize that your case is different since you only learned of your wife's affair 6 months ago. Take the time necessary to heal. Let your wife know how much she hurt you and how much you are disappointed in her. Express anger, hurt, the whole works and after that, let it heal and try to enjoy the time you have remaining on this earth.

[This message edited by marbou888 at 2:33 AM, April 21st (Tuesday)]

Steadychevy[bold] Thanks for your post and I really feel for you. Every thing you said is pretty much what I have been going thru. It makes you wonder how much our wives really love us to put us thru this crap. I think they do not think it is any big deal and that you can get over it like you had a spat or something. My emotions and thoughts change from day to day. Today I am thinking of moving out and divorce and wonder if I could actually do it. Maybe my wife would come around or maybe she would just say bye. I am getting to the point where I do not really give a damn. Maybe I am detaching from her and maybe she deserves it. I wish you well my friend.I thought I would be the only one who had a situation like this but it seems quite common.

[This message edited by apom at 8:48 AM, April 21st (Tuesday)]

Apom I am sorry that you are experiencing this unimaginable horror, but I am glad you found this site. The people here are wonderful and supportive. I found out just shy of 6 months ago. We had just celebrated our 20 year anniversary and I found out about 3 weeks later. I had seen red flags but in a million years never thought it would be affairs. I stumbled across some emails and confronted him about those and I asked if there was had been sex and he said no. I told him something that really resonated with him that allowed him to feel confident to trust that I would stay if he would come clean. I told him "I don't care how bad it is, all I ask is that you tell me everything." I am the type of person who needs to know everything I am dealing with so I can wrap my head around it. His adulterous lifestyle was something he wanted out of but he didn't know how to tell me in fear that I would leave.

When he heard me say that, he knew he was able to tell me. I thought I would die that night. I was in such shock. I didn't eat or sleep for the first 24 hours at all. I lost my appetite for weeks as I dealt with it. As hard as it has been, and it is still hell, I am glad he came clean. I can see a difference in him. I asked him last night how he feels now and he says he is so much happier now not living a secret double life and just being an open book, except when he see's me grieving because he knows he caused that grief and that hurts him deeply.

I am out of the rage stage, I was in that from about month 2 1/2 - 5 1/2 but I am still angry. I feel more sadness now. I guess that is good, it seems to follow the stages of grief although I am in and out of every stage regularly but I feel relief to be out of complete and utter rage.

Perhaps if you sat your wife down and gave her that "umbrella" as I call it to know you will still stay with her and love her but you need to know everything in order for YOU to heal, that she might feel a little safer in confiding in you about the affair. My husband told me from the beginning that he would answer any question I had no matter how hard it was for me to hear or for him to say. At first I didn't think I would be able to handle knowing all the info so it took about a month before I asked all the questions that I wanted to know. I would ask only questions that I was ready to know the answers to one any particular day. He was an open book and gave me complete access to anything and everything.

Long story short, we are happier now. Which is crazy because I was always happy and in love with my husband, but I am happier now because I see a weight has been lifted from him and he is finally leading the quality of life he should have been living and that just makes you happier. I personally a sadder because I am dealing with the crap but we are both in counseling and I see a positive happy marriage for us. The gift of reconciliation I gave him was priceless to him and he thanks me regularly for saving him.

I wish you all the best.

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:10 PM, July 2nd (Saturday)]

Damn not to not sound offensive but I honestly saw a glimpse of the possible future of myself if I had never caught my now Ex WW in the act, It sucked for me and I really think it's even worse for you, the only real advice I have to give you is to find yourself, find out who you were before you were married and be that guy again, improve yourself both mentally and physically, do hobbies, meet new people (not romantically) and read and inform yourself, I really wish I could meet you in person and tell you and relate to your story, you sound like you at least need a heartwarming hug regarding your WW make it clear that you will not stand for this, and that if she truly is remourseful she must MUST tell you everything and confess, and if she doesn't then you will have to make the choice for the both of you.

(((apom))

This must be so confusing and painful, I can't imagine. There is a great op ed piece in the New York Times which gets reprinted on here from time to time. I can't post the link but it's called "Great Betrayals" and it talks about the impact on the betrayed of living a lie and how that is so hard to unpick. I know that I still, 2.5 years out from Dday, rewrite the narrative in my head when I'm reminded of events that happened before, during or after my H's affair. If I had the kind of time to re-write that you do, I think it would be extremely hard.

Only you can know what you can live with. Me, I'm the kind of person that needs to know everything --I think it somehow makes me feel more in control. It's my nature. When I was pregnant with my first child, I bought 20 books on pregnancy and fatal development. I think my STBXH would have rugged swept something like this if the situation was in reverse. But I strongly suggest that you get into therapy for yourself to determine what you can live with and why.

And I just want to say that I think you're so brave and strong for facing up to what's happened. It must be so painful to discover that your wife wasn't who you thought she was and that there is a big black stain on your marital history.

Honestly in your situation I think the best way to get a response is to see a divorce lawyer, have papers drawn up, drop them in front of her and simply tell her you're done.

Your wife has already shown she's not going to be forthcoming with you, let alone do anything to help you heal. Why should she? What incentive does she have? Because you feel bad?? She's had decades to get over what she's done. She doesn't care if this is brand new for you. What consequences has she faced or been forced to face? Doesn't really sound like any.

But you drop some divorce papers in her lap or tell her you're divorcing over what she did and her behavior since you found out, that will most likely motivate her to change moreso than any letters, begging for facts, or moping on your part will.

Sorry you're going through this.

JS84 is correct - drop the D papers in her lap. Force her to deal with this, force her to recognize you as a human.

Apom is long gone, but you might check back - You can move on at 62 or 63 now, How can you live with this person that you do not know, just for convenience? Splitting doesn't delete all the 'good years', it just ensures better years ahead instead of living in misery.

Ideally filing forces her to the discussion table and you can work something out, or, failing R, you are free to experience live in a much more unique and unencumbered way - enjoy your retirement, do not let her infidelity, her betrayal take that from you. She has done enough damage for one lifetime.

Whenever I see these situations where somebody has discovered infidelity from ten or twenty years ago what the WS needs to understand is the although it seemed like it was decades ago for them, and that you should not worry about it, it's brand new to you and your marriage.

Infidelity, like murder, has no statute of limitations in a marriage for a free pass.

Whenever I see these situations where somebody has discovered infidelity from ten or twenty years ago what the WS needs to understand is the although it seemed like it was decades ago for them, and that you should not worry about it, it's brand new to you and your marriage.

Infidelity, like murder, has no statute of limitations in a marriage for a free pass.

:::::::::::::::standing ovation:::::::::::::::

Your story reminds me of someone...

[This message edited by ivehadit01 at 11:12 AM, September 4th (Sunday)]

Apom, sorry to have you here.

You have only just found out (kind off) so the pain is fresh for you.

Also you do not have the whole picture which is worse - its like looking at a jigsaw puzzle with many key pieces missing and whats making it worse is your wife continuing to lie after all this time.

Whatever the situation was with your marriage, there is never any justification to cheat - that is all on her! This will bring her true character into question - one that she has kept from you for all these years. You might be in love with someone that is not real.

Also this may be the tip of the iceberg. Not only might it get worse when you do get the details but this may not have been her only rodeo and you know how adept she is at lying and deceiving.

IMHO, you need to be ready to let her go. If you do not get the truth you do not have any more happy years ahead as some are suggesting, It will eat away at you and destroy your very soul and you (slowly from the inside). This would be a horrible life ahead. Anything would be better.

You may have been her Plan B all along since the boyfriend didn't work out - firstly because he was married, next because he was much younger and thirdly because he was a confirmed player. So she may not have been in love with you all this time.

Write down a time line of all that happened and your suspicions and pull the story together as best you can - after all this is your only evidence. Based on this, confront her and ask her for all the details emphasising that trickle truth is much worse, Then after you badger her for this, ask her to take at least one poly - cover things like have there been any other affairs in addition to this one.

Then take your time to decide what you want to do next.

I am truly sorry for the pain you are in, but step back a minute and look at your situation. The only reason you believe your wife had an affair is a gut feeling. A gut feeling based on memories of distance between you 20 years ago, and a meeting 10 years ago.

Do you really want to end a marriage without any other indication of adultery?