SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I know you are hurting and I can't blame you but I do see something that is not helping and is actually a hinderance to either divorce or R. You said you have avoided her for 6 months and haven't had more than a 5 minute conversation with her. This is the definition of being separated and headed toward divorce. All that is lacking is doing the paperwork. Nothing can be solved without communication. You are stuck on "was it the best sex she ever had" and "the size of the guy's penis". You appear more concerned about these two items than the infidelity. Accept that the sex was good to her whether it was physically good or her getting validation from a younger man. If it hadn't been then she wouldn't have gone back 12 times. It doesn't matter if it was the best or not. For me the worst sex I ever had was great. As far as penis size; if you have been satisfying your wife for 27 years then you have no problem at all. No one expects you to be over this in 6 months. That's almost impossible. I do worry that you are still stuck in the same place you were in 6 months ago. You have dozens of questions that you aren't asking because of fear. It's like being in a room with one door. But instead of going through the door you keep running into the wall. You're never getting out of that room unless you go through the door. There are certain things that must be in place to get by this. First, there must be love, unbreakable love, between the two of you. You have to accept (but you will never forget) that the monster of infidelity has entered your life but assurance it will never happen again. Both of you must want R with your whole being and be willing to do anything necessary to reach that goal. And you have to find a way to live with the hurt and she has to see and forever be remorseful for the hurt she has caused you. Without these factors you might as well throw in the towel. Get a grip on your emotions and talk to her. Ask your questions. If you have to stop talking to get your emotions in check then do so. But go back after and keep talking. I do wish you well.

My WH had "meaningless sex" with OW he found on adult sites. 4 times with 4 different women.

Did the women mean anything to him? Obviously not as they never had contact again and he didn't care one bit about them personally.

HOWEVER...the sex that he had with them KILLS ME! No, he didn't have a traditional affair so the emotions weren't there but it still KILLS ME that he had sex with strangers.

I almost feel like I could understand an attraction based affair more than I could understand the disgustingness of NSA sex.

Nothing in my whole being can ever bring myself to want to swap body fluids with a total stranger.

Was the sex good? IDK, he says it was awkward and nothing special. He's probably lying to save my emotions but then I think two things: You have to know a person and have emotional intimacy for good sex but on the converse side...why keep going after it if it wasn't good? Who knows.

It just sucks and hurts all the way around. No matter what angle you look at it, it's painful.

Mike,

You REALLY need to see an IC about your co-dependency. You've got it extremely bad.

Is there any line you would draw for any act that would make you divorce your wife? Doesn't sound like it. This has bothered you so much you've started a half dozen or more threads. Do you think you'll be able to live with that for the rest of your life without some serious repercussions to your physical and mental health?

Man, I am so sorry you are going through this. I can see your pain. But you are not really addressing it. You are wallowing in it. You need to get IC badly. But you also need to talk to your wife. You need to ask her every question you have. Have her write out her a timeline of the affair. But talk to her and get what you need. Talk to IC and get help. I am praying for you.

WilliamM:

Thanks for your comment.

I go back and forth on if I am handing everything correctly.

I am reading this site 2-3 hours per day ( at least )

Yesterday I read 100 pages of a man's discovery of his wife's affair and her reaction. ( It seems to be a very well known thread on this site - I read it all ) Then I read several threads by his wife who is also on this site as a WW. She said her BS had considered divorce this past summer after making significant progress over the last 2.5 years.

When I read the initial post I was amazed at how fast he was moving compared to me. Compared to him I was making no external progress.

After reading his wife's comments saying he was considering divorce this past summer maybe I am doing some of the right things.

I needed to detach.

I could not imagine trying to reconcile or be affectionate or even talk to my WW a few days or weeks after she had sex with another man. I needed serious time to pass.

It has now been six months.

We are having dinner tomorrow night. We will have a long talk for the first time in six months.

I have a list of about 250 questions I have gathered over the last 6 months.

I want to create a schedule for the next month or so and go over all the questions then have her polygraphed on her answers.

If she passes the polygraph I will go full blast into reconciliation.

I bet 5 years from now I will be glad I detached for 6 months to get a perspective and make some kind of plan to learn about her affair and if I can go forward.

RubixCube

You said

"Is there any line you would draw for any act that would make you divorce your wife?"

There is a lot of good advice on this site, there is a lot of bad advice on this site and there are some condescending insulting people like you.

I honestly believe many of the trollish men on this site were never married long term nor had a girlfriend. They dont understand the value of a 27 year long relationship.

kaygem

I agree that meaningless sex is incredibly painful. My wife had 12 episodes of meaningless sex and it felt like my skin was on fire.

If she passes the polygraph I will go full blast into reconciliation.

And if she does not?

ramius

I will start the divorce process.

I will not give up on the relationship completely. I will let her stay in the house and still attempt to create some kind of relationship with her.

The advantage of divorcing her would:

1) My pay package including company stock will increase very substantially over the next several years. I am now a very senior manager who will be granted large quantities of stock every year. She will have less access to this future stock if we are divorced

2) Divorce is quite a consequence. It makes escaping the relationship much easier.

3) I will demand favorable terms for the divorce to continue the relationship. She will accept this because she wants the relationship at least as much as me. I dont think she can imagine living without me. I cannot imagine living without her.

[This message edited by MilwaukeeMike42 at 11:15 PM, June 19th (Tuesday)]

Mike,

glad that you are going to ask your questions.

hope it helps,but it will be hard.

If it gets too tough have her write the timeline and answer the questions on paper.

Sorry you are here.

will you make her pay for the money she spent on her trainer? sounds like he is a male prostitute.

harrybrown

I think it is funny that people on this site think she was the only victim in the physical affair. She victimized him as well. She knew exactly what he was and used him as much as he used he.

She wanted validation and sex and got it

[This message edited by MilwaukeeMike42 at 9:33 AM, June 20th (Wednesday)]

IMO the only victim in this mess is you.

They are the perpetrators.

Mike your story & mine are pretty similar except my confirmation was thru a PI. If you can live with the fact your WW cheated. Had sex numerous times with the OM then do what you want to.

I was married for 26 years, I have worked overseas since 1989 with various major oil companies in a management position with a very lucrative salary, stock options & retirement package.

My WW was banging the toy boy pretty much the sae day I left on my flight until I returned . She was also meeting up with him a few times while I was home, where her absences raised red flags and I contacted a PI to investigate which took them about 2 days to have confirmation of my WW's betrayal.

I could never remain with someone who did that to me even after 26 years M & 33 yrs together so I filed for D and have been living overseas from Malta to Thailand to Czechoslovakia to any where I fucking want too. I do not regret my decision I miss the women I married, the one that I worked hard for to spend my whole life with, but that's gone, I don't miss the cheating bitch she became, the person who you thought had your back instead made choice to thrust a dagger thru it instead.

I am having a great time albeit alone. As with you my last ten years will be some of the most lucrative of my career with close to 10 M in the bank & with my WW blowing thru the D settlement I have heard thru the grapeline that she is telling anyone who GAF that she let me off easy and that I should be looking at helping her out. Uhhh no fucking way bitch.

My point is man that if you can't live with what she did then you don't have too. Your obligation is to yourself not some cheating WW. There is life after M & its not that bad just takes a little getting used to that's all.

notanotherchance:

I cant imagine living without her at this point. She had a six week twice a week sexual affair. I cant leave an otherwise great 27 year marriage for 12 sexual encounters

Mike

Mike that is your decision my man and we are here to support you. That is the great thing about this site. You will receive advice & how people handled their situations and no two are the same. Lots of it you don't want to hear and you can trash it & use what you want. Its your call and yours alone as to what path you travel.

What is one persons answer does not work for another.

Sending strength my man

Mike, I can relate. Ongoing affairs are hard to get over, but it seems personal trainers are famous for screwing their clients. It's a very common tale.

dbl post

[This message edited by twisted at 2:05 PM, June 20th (Wednesday)]

At the risk of being called a troll I thought I’d provide you this list of actions that a Remorseful spouse will be doing if they truly have empathy for what they have done to their BS and want desperately to Reconcile.

It was collected from hundreds of threads found here on SI.

Maybe it will help when you talk to her. Or Perhaps you don’t agree with them. If so feel free to discard.

But in case some of these resonate with you, i thought it important to send to you and let you decide. I hope some of them may be helpful to you.

Good luck on your path to happiness.

————————

Conditions to consider Reconciliation

(Why I need to see to consider staying in this Marriage)

1) Together we write a No Contact letter that we send to your boyfriend. No signs of affection toward him will be relayed at all. It will Be matter of fact and remove him from your life forever.

2) NO CONTACT. Meaning if you work with him you quit your job and find another so you can never see him or run into him again. Real ghosting. Blocking him from everything. If He tries to contact you then you do not respond and you tell me. If he persists our lawyer will send him a cease and desist.

3) You write out a full timeline of your Affair. Every little detail. Each day you communicated, what was said, even if you were inappropriate and raunchy. The days you were alone together, the physically touching. What you touched, what he touched, how long, and what you said to each other. All sex acts are described. Every single thing. I need to know the truth before I can try and reconcile from it. We will sit together and review it and you’ll openly answer questions about it. You know the truth, I need to know it as well as you do if we are going to have a chance to save this marriage.

4) You'll write me a letter of apology explaining why you think you did what you did and what it would mean to you to have me stay and work on the marriage. It should include how you think you made me feel during all this time.

5) Once we have reviewed the timeline and letter you will agree to a polygraph to confirm you have told me the truth.

6) We will both do Individual Counseling. You to figure out why you were willing and able to go beyond our marriage vows. And me to work thru the pain you have caused me.

7) At a later point we will start Marriage Counseling to work on what was missing from the Marriage. But only after we both work on ourselves first.

8) Expose. The true nature of the affair will be exposed to both our families and appropriate close friends. They need to be able to help us make it thru this Reconciliation. Doing this alone with just the two of us and no one else knowing is doomed for failure. If you are truly Remorseful you will be the one to admit what you have done. I will be there to let them know that even though they are probably mad at you for what you have done but I ask that they support you as a couple while you are trying to work through this painful time in your marriage.

9) If your boyfriend has a wife or Girlfriend you will help me contact this spouse. You will not warn him about this as that would be breaking No Contact and if you do we are through.

10) Intimacy will be on my terms. Whatever I need to heal in whatever fashion you deem necessary. You cannot be forced to do anything you don’t want to, however, I have the right to decide if denying me the intimacy I need is a deal breaker for me.

11) We will look into implementing a postnup that ensures my financial security and terms of parenting if you ever cheat again.

12) You will provide open access to all your technology from now on. On demand. No time to delete stuff. I will agree to do the same. If you dont then I assume you are obviously more interested in having secrets than continuing your Marriage.

13) No more going out without each other unless otherwise approved. Confirming your whereabouts and who you are with will be required as needed.

14) No more meeting alone with a man. No lunches, dinners, drinks whatever. Social Happy Hours (outside of actual work functions) are to be attended together or not attended at all.

15) We both will do reading on infidelity and we will use them to discuss our marriage. This includes materials such as "Not just friends" and "how to help your spouse heal from your affair”

16) STD testing for both of us with Visual proof of the results is required.

17) No new affairs. If so D papers will be served immediately. No lies about relationships with others any more. If so we are done.

18) Any questions about the affair are to be answered honestly for the rest of our lives together.

19) No conversations about our marriage or any other marriage with another man/woman unless we discuss it first and I confirm that it’s ok to talk to that specific person about it.

20) No one comes in to our home without both us knowing.

21) Communication- No secrets, no matter how hard it will be to hear. Discuss all attractions. Discuss all third party attention. Discuss all feelings good and bad. Be honest with yourself and aware of your feelings, then communicate that to your spouse.

22) We don't do anything in absence of one another that we wouldn't do in the others presence.

23) we work to show each other moments of tenderness, acts of passion, the creation of new memories, all thru time spent together.

24) You drop any friends or family members that encouraged or helped you hide the affair. Complete NC with them.

25) Ownership of your actions during your affair and no more blameshifting or excuses for your actions.

26) I need to be treated better than your boyfriend. Whatever you did for him you will have to go further for me. We together will discuss what that means.

27) If there were major expenses incurred by you during the A and spent on the AP then you as the Wayward Spouse must find a way to pay back the Marriage for those expenses either by taking on another job or by selling something of value only to you. This will show me that you are ALL IN.

28) any gifts given by the AP are to be destroyed or sold with the funds used for charity or other purpose not benefiting the WS

29) any clothes worn during the affair or household items used (eg couches, beds) should be sold and replaced only by the WS raising the funds on their own (eg second job or selling something of value only to them)

cant imagine living without her at this point. She had a six week twice a week sexual affair. I cant leave an otherwise great 27 year marriage for 12 sexual encounters

But you are living without her, you are not communicating with her and you are not working towards reconciliation. It can't happen if you both aren't trying. I can't believe I am saying this ( being a BS). You need IC if you aren't getting it all ready. You need to talk to your WS.

I know you have burning questions about the sex but try to focus on what is really important -

Is she being truthful now?

Is she NC?

Is she remorseful?

Is she willing to do the work? Are you?

Is this a deal breaker for you?

I know it seemed harsh on your WS but I think you were right to detach for as long as was necessary to allow time for your recovery before initiating reconciliation. What it did show, other than help you to heal, was that your wife was prepared to accept that is what you needed. An excellent sign.

I also agree that now is the time to take tender steps to reconnect with her. Hopefully the true love she has for you will come through and she will recognise her cruel selfishness at the same time. She knew she was betraying you and continued to do it. I would not let that thought be superseded by the nature of the sex she had with OM, that was incidental. To wake up in your bed twice a week knowing she was going to betray you and still do it for months is very hard for someone to swallow, notwithstanding the level of her enjoyment of the sex.

Stevesn has given you a invaluable list to use to determine whether she is truly remorseful and not just regretful.