SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I always thought I knew what people should do; it seemed clear. But we are all wired differently and have our worries and anxieties and concerns. I wish you much peace, and if you don't feel 'better' after all this, then listen to your gut. Safe is safe. Unsafe is unsafe.

No easy answers.

Infidelity is hard.

Marriage is harder.

I agree with others; a poly should be in the mix.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 9:08 PM, September 26th (Tuesday)]

I've never been fan of the polygraph in a marriage. Not only is it expensive and unreliable, but its wildly invasive. I feel if you are to the point where you need a machine to tell you if you can trust your spouse, maybe it's time to reconsider divorce. Besides, what if you are completely off base and they weren't cheating, how are they suppose to react to that level of mistrust...being treated like a common criminal by your own spouse? I just think there are better ways to gather evidence than hooking your mate who you have no real proof of cheating up to a machine.

ETA: Now if they are a proven cheater then maybe it's different. Still, what kind of a marriage to trust a machine over your own wife.

[This message edited by Randy1133 at 11:42 PM, September 26th (Tuesday)]

I've never been fan of the polygraph in a marriage. Not only is it expensive and unreliable, but its wildly invasive. I feel if you are to the point where you need a machine to tell you if you can trust your spouse, maybe it's time to reconsider divorce. Besides, what if you are completely off base and they weren't cheating, how are they suppose to react to that level of mistrust...being treated like a common criminal by your own spouse?

I totally disagree with this.

Yes - it is invasive. However, what needs to be considered are the circumstances leading up to the point of even considering a polygraph.

In this day and age, technology has made it not only much easier to cheat - but much easier to hide it. Unless you are a true electronic sleuth (and, perhaps have a little bit of luck on your side) there is a good chance that you will NEVER find out what is going on behind your back. That results in a slow build-up of mistrust, suspicion, and - often - periodic confrontation. Of course the cheater, being pretty good at what they do, denies.

The point is that the relationship has already been suffering as a result of the mistrust. This can't be remedied simply by "telling the truth." The BS doesn't believe that it's the truth. Furthermore, even going into "detective mode" requires the individual to turn their life upside down - GPS, VAR, PI, checking phone logs. There are threads on this forum of people going absolutely insane trying to track down leads and find proof of the infidelity. Only to have months (and, sometimes, years go by). So what to do?

The wayward spouse (even if he/she isn't a "wayward spouse") can do much to allay the others' fears by simply agreeing to the polygraph. By that time, if they aren't doing anything wrong they should be thrilled to get off the hook. "Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing..." and all that stuff.

Yes, it sucks. It sucks that someone would ever even be in the position of such suspicion that they would have to ask. But if two people want to save a marriage and re-establish trust, there are only a few ways to do this. And a polygraph is one of them.

Oh, and they're not that expensive. What IS expensive is divorce.

I have mixed feeling on the poly myself. I never got to the point I considered it, and have some doubts about their accuracy, just too many variables for me.

All I know is that the nagging suspicions and doubts will eat you up after a while, and today's technology make it so easy to hide if something is going on.

It's an issue many people here have that simple openness and transparency could solve. Sometimes stepping back and looking at the whole picture and it's context helps you decide what is really going on, or not going on.

Maybe if it was 100% I'd buy into it. But they have a 70%-90% accuracy rate, depending on which research agency you ask. Probably with a little research via Google on how they work your odds of beating it are increased, that's why law enforcement are not good candidates for them. So, there will always be a nagging suspicion either way.

I feel strongly that the poly is an essential tool. Withoutntruth there is no trust. With no trust there is no marriage.

With that said, springing it at this point may strategically may not be the best course of action. The first step is to engage in a frank and honest communication pattern for a few days. Clearly communicate that there is no marriage without trust and then leave it up to her to figure out ways to deliver that trust.

Regarding the poly.

Keep in mind it’s a tool that can do two things: It can strongly indicate you are lying or it can strongly indicate you are being truthful. It works both ways. Yes, your marriage is in dire straits if you feel a need for a poly to confirm the truth, but keep in mind that right now your marriage IS in dire straits. What your marriage needs is the truth, not a poly. The poly is simply one tool to enable you a sense of knowing the truth.

You could possibly get the same sense of truth from a detailed time-line. You could get a sense of truth if she had witnesses for days and events you worry about. You could get the same sense of truth in many ways, but basically, they all start the same: You don’t trust her and she must show you something that enables you to trust her. IMHO the poly is the quickest way to get there.

It’s not 100% reliable, but research by institutions like the FBI, INTERPOL and Scotland Yard give it anything from 90-97% reliability in the correct hands. That best-case 3% is why it’s seldom (if ever) admissible in a criminal court. Yes – you can find success levels as low as 70% but I have my doubts about how that research was done. For example; if I took a poly where I was supposed to confirm I am female (a blatant lie) as part of a reliability test then the simple fact nothing was riding on the result for me personally might enable me to lie. Plus, a polys reliability is based on the operator’s ability.

Can you cheat on a poly? Well… yes. You can train to consistently pass a poly but the odds of passing one the first go are miniscule. There are supposed tricks like sleep deprivation, having a pebble in your shoe, chewing chili etc. that supposedly help you cheat, but the examiners are trained to spot these things.

The operator is KEY. Don’t go to someone with a shingle outside the door beside a tattoo parlor. Find an operator that mainly works for the legal system and corporations. It costs more, but it will still cost less than the 3-5 MC sessions needed if you don’t have the truth and the divorce-lawyer fees after that. You want someone that interviews you to get what info you need, carefully rewords and repeats the questions, takes your wife for an interview before doing the test and then gives you a detailed overview of the answers and results.

Finally – Like I said the poly can indicate if she’s telling the truth or if she’s lying. Yes – there is that 3-10% chance of it being false. Heck… even if we go with the low 70% reliability… That’s better than your reliability right now. A KEY ELEMENT IMHO for you is to decide ahead of making that poly-appointment to BELIEVE the result.

Way too often we get posters here that ask what to do to get the truth and a poly is suggested. Their spouse then fails a poly and we get the posters asking what to do… Have a plan in place: IF she passes then you need to deal with your trust issues and the condition of the marriage. What is your plan if she fails?

my question is why OP is taking so long to have 'the talk'.

I totally agree Western.

Unsure – there is nothing gained by waiting. Get this confrontation over with.

If the M has deteriorated to the point of PolyGraph is a consideration...then TRUST has already been shattered. If one has not read the antics of this WW...then do so....she continues association with 'low life swingers'...travels with the lesbian other WW.

Technology is like human behavior...neither are perfected. If this WW had agreed to NC with the low-lifes...then she may have earned some degree of latitude for the short term...but she didn't.

Yep..it's POLy-TIME...it will scare the crap out of her if she wants to save the marriage...more likely to detect lying. If she cares not about the M...better chance of successful lying...that means more time to "nail" her with more investigative effort...WS always f**k up again...

[This message edited by nlwsrw at 10:03 AM, September 27th (Wednesday)]

I totally agree Western.

Unsure – there is nothing gained by waiting. Get this confrontation over with.

.

Bigger, I need to do this, no question. I am a little afraid of what I will find. Last night wife accused me of cheating, I asked her why she would say that? She said because the sex was different and I took too long. I said that it's been so long since we were intimate that you probably forgot. That seemed to upset her. I am a little afraid of her, she is very volatile and and goes for the jugular. I am really very laid back and hate confrontation.

I was waiting for the right time and environment to have this conversation, I guess that tonight is as good as any. Wish me luck

Uman,

Hating confrontation is why so many of us laid back easy going guys get into this predicament in the first place. We don'y say anything, or enough when we first get wary of something going on.

For us, being confrontation is a learned skill. It can be used to your advantage when needed, as it is unexpected coming from us.

Be confrontational, if she pushes back, come right back at her and don't back down. Drive the issue and keep her backing up. It's about attitude.

Last night wife accused me of cheating

A lot of cheaters say this, it's a smoke screen, a distraction. It could also just be that she senses your general displeasure.

As Bigger said, stick with what you know, but don't let her know what you know. You know?

Don't be afraid, whatever will be, will be. The worst that can happen from you controlling your reaction to the situation and demanding to live without infidelity is that you divorce. This is not the scariest outcome in the world either - whether she goes for the jugular or not. She can ask for anything in the world... don't mean she'll get it.

I must not fear.

Fear is the mind-killer.

Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

I will face my fear.

I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.

Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

-Frank Herbert, in Dune

Duplicate

[This message edited by ChangeMaker at 10:43 AM, September 27th (Wednesday)]

Last night wife accused me of cheating,

Classic

Anyone remember Jimmy Swaggart railing against prostitution for 6 months? And as anyone with a bit of knowledge on human behavior could predict, he was caught with a prostitute.

Good luck tonight.

Can you cheat on a poly? Well… yes. You can train to consistently pass a poly but the odds of passing one the first go are miniscule. There are supposed tricks like sleep deprivation, having a pebble in your shoe, chewing chili etc. that supposedly help you cheat, but the examiners are trained to spot these things.

Well, if you can identify the control questions which are pretty easy to figure out and then fool yourself into psychological stress (by thinking of a scary thought or doing a difficult math equation for example) it will ramp up your vital signs so that there will be a false baseline for comparison, then try and calm yourself for the relevant questions.

Of course, some will still fail, but atleast you give yourself a shot. But I agree if you don't know anything about lie detector tests, it probably is very accurate.

------

Anyways, Unsure, yea might as well get the confrontation out there ASAP. Then go into Ninja mode.

[This message edited by Randy1133 at 11:01 AM, September 27th (Wednesday)]

Look up the symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder and Histrionic Personality Disorder.

Only somewhat tongue in cheek: "OK, If you think I'm cheating let both take a poly".

Fear is driven by all that is unknown. Unknown about the future. Unknown leads you to "What if ___" fill in the blank with *all* of the possibilities running through your mind. You need to narrow the playing field. Instead of *all* the possibilities your objective is to get down to a shorter list of possibilities. and a longer list of "Knowns".

The list may not end up including any admission about infidelity. It may end up with her denying, minimizing, gas lighting, blame shifting.

Those would be shitty "knowns". But they do advance your knowledge about what you may have to do to...what you are faced with...to get out of your sitch.

Look at what you know right now. You know she explained away the hot tub make out by "I get horny when a drink and get into a hot tub". She explained away walking away from you at the party to dance with OMSwinger by "Unsureman, you're insecure". She characterized OMSwinger as "devious".

Her past behavior in dealing with you is the best predictor of how she will deal with you tonight. So not so much unknown about that.

The dynamic has been that she has the ability to set you back on your heels and control the convo. Kudos for you though in this last exchange about her cheating accusation. She got upset because she lost some control of you and the convo.

I can only suggest an approach. I do base it though on an understanding of confrontation. The sports analogy is "Let the game come to you". She has proven ability to deflect you and seize the convo. This is the equivalent of shutting down the other player before they get into the flow of the game. Start the game off slowly. I dislike the term "confrontation" in your sitch because I think it creates in your mind a scenario where you start off saying "I think your cheating. People have told me."

You can use Bigger's approach and script. I like it up to a point. And it is meant to get her to engage in the issue. But keep in mind, it also says to her that if you don't cooperate with me I will presume you are cheating. If you're ready to lay that down, you have to back it up. Are you ready to back it up? The value of that approach is that it certainly gets you out of the limbo you are in. If she becomes cooperative. Or if you back up your statements about assuming infidelity if she doesn't become cooperative. The downside to this approach is that it is pretty much a "one and done".

Fear is a pretty fvcking powerful thing. Its greatest power over you is that it serves to maintain the shitty status quo you are in.

Be the guy who runs towards the problem, the danger, the gunfire. Otherwise nothing changes.

[quoteHer past behavior in dealing with you is the best predictor of how she will deal with you tonight. So not so much unknown about that.

The dynamic has been that she has the ability to set you back on your heels and control the convo. Kudos for you though in this last exchange about her cheating accusation. She got upset because she lost some control of you and the convo.][/quote]

Timeless yes she is the master of manipulation and I have always been the puppet. I am trying to have this difficult conversation with her. I was thinking about calling the drunk friend and asking him what he knows. He could roll over or dime me out to his wife who would tell mine. Either way I am speaking with her tonight.