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I have a gut feeling.

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Cheatee ( member #59284) posted at 7:02 PM on Tuesday, October 31st, 2017

Unsureman,

So deeply sorry.

I'm new to this threat, but wondering if a Polygraph exam has been suggested? That often elicits a parking lot confession.

posts: 870   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: Planet Earth, usually
id 8012445
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NorthernGirl12 ( member #57316) posted at 7:48 PM on Tuesday, October 31st, 2017

Just recently my wife has accused me of cheating on her;which I never have. I think that maybe my clearing my phone history has her concerned.

Unsureman, I do not believe that your wife believes you are cheating. I do not know why someone who is cheating does this (others here are more likely to know), but this is such a common thing. My husband started receiving messages from the OW three weeks before they hooked up. I was accused of cheating twice in those few weeks. I wasn't cheating, but it threw me off HIS trail. I kept wondering what I was doing that looked suspicious. It made me second guess myself. Looking back I knew something was off. My friends were avoiding me and if they had to be around me they couldn't maintain eye contact. They were uncomfortable. I now know why.

I suspect that your wife is cheating or trying very hard to hide something from you. Your still in a spot where you don't want to believe it. It's like you know something is going on you just do not know what. Nobody thinks your weak for that.

Me: 45
Him: 44
Together 23yrs/Married 18
DD Day: September 30, 2016

posts: 173   ·   registered: Feb. 7th, 2017
id 8012487
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 Unsureman (original poster member #60700) posted at 8:30 PM on Tuesday, October 31st, 2017

Everyone thank you for your support.

Unsureman, I do not believe that your wife believes you are cheating. I do not know why someone who is cheating does this (others here are more likely to know), but this is such a common thing. My husband started receiving messages from the OW three weeks before they hooked up. I was accused of cheating twice in those few weeks. I wasn't cheating, but it threw me off HIS trail. I kept wondering what I was doing that looked suspicious. It made me second guess myself. Looking back I knew something was off. My friends were avoiding me and if they had to be around me they couldn't maintain eye contact. They were uncomfortable. I now know why.

I suspect that your wife is cheating or trying very hard to hide something from you. Your still in a spot where you don't want to believe it. It's like you know something is going on you just do not know what. Nobody thinks your weak for that.

.

Northern girl, your post really hit home. I do know that something happened or is still happening but, I don’t know what it is yet... Friends have avoided me as if I did something wrong. They just don’t want to be part of it or they are protecting her. I will go to counseling and listen and confront her.

posts: 92   ·   registered: Sep. 19th, 2017   ·   location: East coast
id 8012510
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twisted ( member #8873) posted at 9:34 PM on Tuesday, October 31st, 2017

From a few pages back...

I am a little afraid of her, she is very volatile and and goes for the jugular. I am really very laid back and hate confrontation.

Spoke with drunk friend and he advised me that my wife confronted his wife about what he said and that he was drunk and doesn’t want to speak about it again. My wife said that she wants us to move away immediately and for me to quit my six figure job and down size immediately.

It's time you take charge and never back down again. Confrontation is a learned skill. A skill that sometimes it is necessary to equalize the balance. If she wants to blow up, blow up right back and don't back down. What is at risk demands it.

Your drunk friend is hiding from you, you wife, and his wife. Invite him for a beer somewhere and get the truth, or whatever he knows. He won't won't spill it, then get a name of someone that will. As I recall, he indicated her behavior was more or less common knowledge, who else is in this circle that would know something? Is his wife close with your wife? I am convinced this is the line of investigation that will lead you to the truth.

Lean on him, this is a good chance to practice your new confrontation skills.

Just recently my wife has accused me of cheating on her

Yeah, well, I think that's on page 3 of the Cheaters Handbook, so you can let that float right on by. She is still playing just as predicted, trying to head off you getting any information.

Confront your drunk friend again, do the man to man thing, appeal, beg, shame him, whatever it takes. Find the info, get names of who knows more if he isn't man enough to come clean with you.

THEN confront the wife as to why she felt the need to talk to his wife to shut him up.

My friends were avoiding me and if they had to be around me they couldn't maintain eye contact.

Corner these people, somebody will talk if you approach them right. There are decent people that will do the right thing.

Fix the call forwarding deal right now. Change your passcode on your phone. Make sure all forwarding is off, and check the online account and see if she is manipulating it from there. Is it a joint phone account?

"Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

posts: 4023   ·   registered: Nov. 18th, 2005   ·   location: Oklahoma
id 8012554
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Sharkman ( member #56818) posted at 9:41 PM on Tuesday, October 31st, 2017

I like your plan of confronting and offering her a grace period for the truth. You will NEVER get the truth if she perceives it’ll end the marriage anyways

Of course you can give her the grace period but still proceed 100% on divorce.

posts: 1788   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2017
id 8012559
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beenthereinco ( member #56409) posted at 10:45 PM on Tuesday, October 31st, 2017

Beenthereinco, I did the*73 not sure if that was the case. It wasn’t every call.

It's called Selective Call Forwarding. She has to do that from the account I think. Have you looked on the web page? If you are the account owner I would go on there, check for any forwards and then change the password. As Northern Girl says she probably knew a call was coming to you from someone and asked her brother to pretend to be you. If you look on the account and still see it in place you'll see the people she doesn't want you to talk to. I'd call every number I see there and ask them if they had anything to tell me about my wife if I were you.

posts: 1429   ·   registered: Dec. 13th, 2016
id 8012589
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twisted ( member #8873) posted at 10:54 PM on Tuesday, October 31st, 2017

Good catch by beenthere, I hadn't though of selective forwarding.

"Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

posts: 4023   ·   registered: Nov. 18th, 2005   ·   location: Oklahoma
id 8012593
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antlered ( member #46011) posted at 1:16 AM on Wednesday, November 1st, 2017

Unsure man your story is notable in that you seem to remain in this Schroedinger's cat type of 'in between' of knowing and 'not knowing'.

To make you feel better, here's a brief excerpt from my story. Met ww at 18. We were both 'virgins'.

At 23, a year after she was away at grad school, she needed some abnormal cervical cells frozen off.

At 31, she had recurring vaginal infections that eventually required both of use to have antibiotic treatment.

At 44, I found unequivocal evidence of affairs. And I had no idea until then.

I have a high IQ, analytical mind, Ph.D in a real science and have been successful.

I'm also the kind of guy that only bets $20 in a poker game (and wins, but still doesn't bet much because it's a 'risk' )

Now. That being said, I would bet you 6 months, no a year's salary on two things:

1. The first is what would happen if you accused her of cheating and demanded, demanded a polygraph, the following would happen:

a) If she were innocent, you would have a rough couple of weeks but she wouldn't leave you.

2.If she were guilty, she would either dig her heels to the bitter end/file for DV and divorce, have a breakdown or both.

2. The second thing that I would bet a lot of money on, gently, is that the OM has been, I'm sorry I can't say the words.... anyways I would bet serious money on it.

You say you have a plan and you aren't rugsweeping. I'm not entirely convinced. You haven't shared how you are following up with drunk friend, phone contacts, or confrontation with WW. I would also bet (less than 6 months' salary ) that you haven't done all this because you are afraid that your gut feeling is true. It's why you've been rug swept earlier. Problem now is that you aren't stupid, and things have been made so brightly clear that you can see them through the sand your head has been in.

I get it. Really, most of us here do. It sucks.

Now read through this thread from the beginning. Make a concrete plan as to how to get the information you need and what to do about it. A business plan.

"Being cheated on was at once the worst and best thing that has ever happened to me.

"There is a huge amount of strength to be had from walking the path of integrity."

posts: 1297   ·   registered: Dec. 18th, 2014
id 8012663
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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 3:04 AM on Wednesday, November 1st, 2017

She’s projecting her cheating onto you.

Cheater script

posts: 6791   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8012708
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rambler ( member #43747) posted at 3:47 AM on Wednesday, November 1st, 2017

The friend did not say he was lying, just he can not talk to you.

No one will fight for you if you will not fight for yourself.

See an attorney and get ready to file. Don't ide behind your MC.

After you meet with the attorney, talk with your wife. Tell her you know the truth, met with n attorney and will file in the morning if she does not come clean.

Tell her if she comes clean now, you MAY be able to work through it.

making it through

posts: 1423   ·   registered: Jun. 17th, 2014   ·   location: Chicago
id 8012725
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Jman ( member #55931) posted at 3:52 AM on Wednesday, November 1st, 2017

UMan,

Sorry I'm late to your thread. Very sorry to hear about your situation. You should read Pineapple's thread in JFO. He too knew that his wife cheated but couldn't find clear cut evidence even though any rational person would haveconvicted her in a court of law due to overwhelming evidence. I feel exactly the same about your situation. As others have said, an innocent person does not act like your wife is acting, not now, not ever. Asking you to give up your livelihood and move, for no reason? Are u kidding me? If it walks like a duck......

posts: 81   ·   registered: Nov. 6th, 2016
id 8012726
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antlered ( member #46011) posted at 1:29 PM on Wednesday, November 1st, 2017

Hi Unsureman,

We don't want to scare you off by all the very direct posts here.

FYI I went to IC in the period after dday and divorce. It really helped process things and deal with the anxiety.

"Being cheated on was at once the worst and best thing that has ever happened to me.

"There is a huge amount of strength to be had from walking the path of integrity."

posts: 1297   ·   registered: Dec. 18th, 2014
id 8012820
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NorthernGirl12 ( member #57316) posted at 2:07 PM on Wednesday, November 1st, 2017

Friends have avoided me as if I did something wrong. They just don’t want to be part of it or they are protecting her. I will go to counseling and listen and confront her.

My best guess is they are protecting themselves. I know in my case once I knew the truth and was angry I heard a lot of "I didn't want to be the one to break up a family" and "it wasn't my place to tell you". You will find out who your friends are. It's a very hurtful process.

I know a lot of the advice you are getting is to confront. I was just like you. I knew something was going on. My life seemed surreal. I think in the weeks leading up to Dday I couldn't have rug swept if I had wanted. It's your brains way of protecting your heart I think. I do think you need to look at any numbers that were forwarded. Your wife seems to be right on the ball, but took a huge risk with your phone. She did that for a reason. I think your going to get a lot of your answers there. Someone may be willing to talk. You will get through this.

Me: 45
Him: 44
Together 23yrs/Married 18
DD Day: September 30, 2016

posts: 173   ·   registered: Feb. 7th, 2017
id 8012832
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 Unsureman (original poster member #60700) posted at 3:00 PM on Wednesday, November 1st, 2017

Thanks for your responses, some are harder to read than others, but I came here in search of the truth. Antlered no you won’t chase me off, and I am truly sorry about your pain that your wife caused you. My drunk friend and I are not close any more, he is closer to the OM than me now. I stopped hanging around him as much because of his drinking and inappropriate language . I have spoken with him but I don’t trust him at this point. I personally don’t have any close friends and I can say that all of my current friends are the husbands of my wife’s girlfriends.

I have read No more Mr Niceguy and I felt that it was written about me. I know that I have to work on standing up for myself and dealing with confrontation with my wife. I will respond later after my meetings.

posts: 92   ·   registered: Sep. 19th, 2017   ·   location: East coast
id 8012878
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M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 4:18 PM on Wednesday, November 1st, 2017

Unsureman,

Firstly, like everyone else here, my heart goes out to you. You have been put into a horrible situation in which you desperately need to find out the truth, but you also know that the truth may be something you do not want to find out. It may be little consolation to you that many, many others here have found themselves pushed into that same dilemma by their cheating spouses, and they got through it, survived, and found a way forward. You will too.

What is apparent from your posts is that your wife seems extremely immature. It might just be her, it might be the fact that she has never worked and so never had to grow up to function in the workplace, but whatever the reason, she repeatedly behaves like a belligerent fifteen year-old dealing with an authority figure, not a mature or responsible wife and parent. For example, she says she doesn’t want to lose the marriage, then does something as stupidly and pointlessly provocative as going to sit next to the OM at that party recently. Seriously, what kind of idiot does something like that, drunk or not? It is almost ironic that it was then her who said you should not be going to any events where the toxic OM and his wife are likely to be, because that should not have been happening anymore now anyway. The same is true of any future trips with that whole toxic crowd, like the recent wine-tasting trip. Why let those things happen? It is asking for trouble.

Your wife recently said that she feels afraid to be herself around you, and it would be worthwhile asking her who exactly she wants to be. Going by the evidence in this thread, you want her to be an honest, monogamous wife, and she wants to be a dishonest, promiscuous bisexual. I am not saying that disrespectfully, quite the opposite, because the real crux of what is causing you problems here is the identity crisis that your wife seems to be going through. She wants the security of marriage, and the freedom to sleep with others. And it looks like she is getting frustrated by your attempts to prevent that, which is causing her to hit the bottle more and more, rather than facing up to the unsustainable contradiction that is the foundation of the problems you are both currently having.

The real issue is not so much did she, or did she not, sleep with a particular man on a particular date; it is how does she define herself and her role within the marriage, both now, and more importantly, in the future. As things stand, your idea and her idea of those things seem to be very different. While you are pegging a possible parting of the ways on whether or not she slept with a particular OM, after seeing her in action with another woman, I think that perhaps it is the issue of how the person she has become can fit into the future of the marriage that is really the important thing for the happiness of both of you. I say that because, even if you cannot definitively prove that your wife physically cheated with the OM, that does not in any way change her wayward, disrespectful behaviour, or make her any safer as a life partner.

By all means, do pursue the current line of investigation, but I think you really should get serious and go and talk to a private investigator. It sounds like you have the funds to do that, and a PI can give you all kinds of advice about how to dig for information, surveillance methods and technology, and also how to get your phone and your computer(s) checked for keylogging software and other spyware that your wife or her friends may have introduced to them. If you do consult a PI, I would further advise you to NOT post any specific details in this forum about what was discussed, or what you are going to do as a result. If your wife has been rooting around in your phone, she may also have checked your internet browsing history and may be reading this forum. While it is ‘safe’ to continue discussing a lot of elements of what is going on, you really should not go into any specifics about your investigation. What I will say is that a PI can advise about much more professional surveillance equipment than a VAR velcro’d under a car seat, and PIs can also physically track and document your wife’s movements during the day when you are working.

The diverting of your phone is as enlightening as it is clumsy. The only person who had (a) the motivation, and (b) the access necessary to do that is your wife. But why do something that would so obviously be discovered? Again, it is like the action of a rebellious teenager, not a mature woman (and certainly not a mature woman who wants to ‘save’ her marriage). As others have said, you should be able to get a log of all the numbers that called you, and you can call them back and find out what your brother-in-law said to them. It may be worth asking him why he didn’t tell you as soon as he noticed the phenomenon was occurring. What you really must do is get both your phone and your laptop thoroughly checked by people who know what they are doing, to identify and remove any spyware. I also think you should not leave either of those devices lying around at home. Guard them, and if necessary, get yourself a small safe that only you know the combination to and store them there.

As others have said, the suggestion that you should give up your job and move away should not be entertained. Why should you? Is she saying that she cannot control herself if she stays around that toxic crowd, or is she worried about what you will find out if you continue investigating? The proposed move sounds like a simplistic attempt to get you to drop everything, because obviously – she hopes - it will no longer be relevant to investigate her activities if she is no longer mixing with that crowd. The problem with that quick fix is that it does not address any of her behavioural issues, or lack of boundaries; it just means that if you move, she can do all of the same things in a new location. So a move would solve absolutely nothing. An alcoholic who moves from Ohio to Texas is not a cured alcoholic, they are a relocated alcoholic.

What needs to be resolved is who and what she wants to be, and how well those things match up against who and what you need her to be as your life partner. If, to take an extreme scenario, she really wants to be a promiscuous bisexual swinger, and that is what she needs to be happy, is it in either of your interests for her to remain in the marriage? She would feel caged and frustrated, or ‘controlled’, and you will end up constantly having to monitor her attempts to indulge herself. This is why I think her perception of who she wants to be is so critical to the prospect of future happiness for both of you, because unless your ideas on that score are similar, you are likely to make one another unhappy in future.

If you can step back from the fine details of the present situation, both of you do deserve to be happy. So maybe, along with the other questions you need answers to, the really important one to ask your wife is this:

“What do you want?”

The answer to that, and how it compares to what you want, may make or break the marriage, but unless she addresses it, you may both continue to make each other unhappy.

Honestly, I am sorry if anything here has been hard to read, but it is written with compassion for both of you, to try and help resolve a situation in which neither of you appear to be happy.

[This message edited by M1965 at 4:32 PM, November 1st (Wednesday)]

posts: 1277   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
id 8012953
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 Unsureman (original poster member #60700) posted at 5:27 PM on Wednesday, November 1st, 2017

Firstly, like everyone else here, my heart goes out to you. You have been put into a horrible situation in which you desperately need to find out the truth, but you also know that the truth may be something you do not want to find out. It may be little consolation to you that many, many others here have found themselves pushed into that same dilemma by their cheating spouses, and they got through it, survived, and found a way forward. You will too.

What is apparent from your posts is that your wife seems extremely immature. It might just be her, it might be the fact that she has never worked and so never had to grow up to function in the workplace, but whatever the reason, she repeatedly behaves like a belligerent fifteen year-old dealing with an authority figure, not a mature or responsible wife and parent. For example, she says she doesn’t want to lose the marriage, then does something as stupidly and pointlessly provocative as going to sit next to the OM at that party recently. Seriously, what kind of idiot does something like that, drunk or not? It is almost ironic that it was then her who said you should not be going to any events where the toxic OM and his wife are likely to be, because that should not have been happening anymore now anyway. The same is true of any future trips with that whole toxic crowd, like the recent wine-tasting trip. Why let those things happen? It is asking for trouble.

Your wife recently said that she feels afraid to be herself around you, and it would be worthwhile asking her who exactly she wants to be. Going by the evidence in this thread, you want her to be an honest, monogamous wife, and she wants to be a dishonest, promiscuous bisexual. I am not saying that disrespectfully, quite the opposite, because the real crux of what is causing you problems here is the identity crisis that your wife seems to be going through. She wants the security of marriage, and the freedom to sleep with others. And it looks like she is getting frustrated by your attempts to prevent that, which is causing her to hit the bottle more and more, rather than facing up to the unsustainable contradiction that is the foundation of the problems you are both currently having.

The real issue is not so much did she, or did she not, sleep with a particular man on a particular date; it is how does she define herself and her role within the marriage, both now, and more importantly, in the future. As things stand, your idea and her idea of those things seem to be very different. While you are pegging a possible parting of the ways on whether or not she slept with a particular OM, after seeing her in action with another woman, I think that perhaps it is the issue of how the person she has become can fit into the future of the marriage that is really the important thing for the happiness of both of you. I say that because, even if you cannot definitively prove that your wife physically cheated with the OM, that does not in any way change her wayward, disrespectful behaviour, or make her any safer as a life partner.

By all means, do pursue the current line of investigation, but I think you really should get serious and go and talk to a private investigator. It sounds like you have the funds to do that, and a PI can give you all kinds of advice about how to dig for information, surveillance methods and technology, and also how to get your phone and your computer(s) checked for keylogging software and other spyware that your wife or her friends may have introduced to them. If you do consult a PI, I would further advise you to NOT post any specific details in this forum about what was discussed, or what you are going to do as a result. If your wife has been rooting around in your phone, she may also have checked your internet browsing history and may be reading this forum. While it is ‘safe’ to continue discussing a lot of elements of what is going on, you really should not go into any specifics about your investigation. What I will say is that a PI can advise about much more professional surveillance equipment than a VAR velcro’d under a car seat, and PIs can also physically track and document your wife’s movements during the day when you are working.

The diverting of your phone is as enlightening as it is clumsy. The only person who had (a) the motivation, and (b) the access necessary to do that is your wife. But why do something that would so obviously be discovered? Again, it is like the action of a rebellious teenager, not a mature woman (and certainly not a mature woman who wants to ‘save’ her marriage). As others have said, you should be able to get a log of all the numbers that called you, and you can call them back and find out what your brother-in-law said to them. It may be worth asking him why he didn’t tell you as soon as he noticed the phenomenon was occurring. What you really must do is get both your phone and your laptop thoroughly checked by people who know what they are doing, to identify and remove any spyware. I also think you should not leave either of those device lying around at home. Guard them, and if necessary, get yourself a small safe that only you know the combination to and store them there.

As others have said, the suggestion that you should give up your job and move away should not be entertained. Why should you? Is she saying that she cannot control herself if she stays around that toxic crowd, or is she worried about what you will find out if you continue investigating? The proposed move sounds like a simplistic attempt to do get you to drop everything, because obviously – she hopes - it will no longer be relevant to investigate her activities if she is no longer mixing with that crowd. The problem with that quick fix is that it does not address any of her behavioural issues, or lack of boundaries; it just means that if you move, she can do all of the same things in a new location. So a move would solve absolutely nothing. An alcoholic who moves from Ohio to Texas is not a cured alcoholic, they are a relocated alcoholic.

What needs to be resolved is who and what she wants to be, and how well those things match up against who and what you need her to be as your life partner. If, to take an extreme scenario, she really wants to be a promiscuous bisexual swinger, and that is what she needs to be happy, is it in either of your interests for her to remain in the marriage? She would feel caged and frustrated, or ‘controlled’, and you will end up constantly having to monitor her attempts to indulge herself. This is why I think her perception of who she wants to be is so critical to the prospect of future happiness for both of you, because unless your ideas on that score are similar, you are likely to make one another unhappy in future.

If you can step back from the fine details of the present situation, both of you do deserve to be happy. So maybe, along with the other questions you need answers to, the really important one to ask your wife is this:

.

M1965, Thanks for your well thought out post and guidance.

My wife and I were very young when we married and She moved into a house with me that I owned from her parents house. I always made sure that I provided well for her and I know that I spoiled her terribly over the years. When we had children I would watch them and allow her to go out with her girlfriends for girls night out once a week. There were a lot of red flags then, but I had never ever considered infidelity as being even in the realm of possibility. My wife’s best friend cheated on her husband and left him for the OM . They divorced and my wife cut her out of her life. I sometimes think she did this to cover herself.

Wife used to dog me saying she could have done better than me. I put up with this BS for years until I finally said if you feel that way you are free to go. I am tall, fit, a college graduate, former military officer. Over the past five years I started actually making what I am worth, so she can’t complain about money.

What do I want?

I want my wife back that I thought I had. I want her to put this mess to bed by giving me a full timeline and letting me know where her head and heart are at. I know that I have not acted decisively by not being more demanding in confrontation with her. The truth will come out I see cracks in the dam and know she is going to break very soon. I read the horrible stories here and it truly saddens me to see once loving spouses betray their spouse with absolutely no regards to their feelings or their marriage. I read something Malcom X wrote years ago “ I can understand death, I cannot understand betrayal “. That is where I am at I just can’t fathom ever doing this to her or anybody. Sorry for my rant, I do have it together and I will not rug sweep this again.

posts: 92   ·   registered: Sep. 19th, 2017   ·   location: East coast
id 8013010
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Hotdog ( member #58066) posted at 5:54 PM on Wednesday, November 1st, 2017

I want my wife back that I thought I had.

The key word is "thought". This is who she was/is all along. True nature of a person will eventually come out. Don't get hung up on this. You are wasting your time and energy chasing something that was never there.

posts: 178   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2017
id 8013040
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Jman ( member #55931) posted at 12:59 AM on Thursday, November 2nd, 2017

UMan,

I wouldn't get your hopes up on her coming clean when you confront her. Anyone that is willing to lie for five years, hack your phone, joke about your insecurities and not give two craps about hurting you probably isn't going to turn on a dime. I hope I'm wrong but I think you need to be prepared for her to turn this in you once again. I would have my ducks ina row legally before confrontation. Good luck!

posts: 81   ·   registered: Nov. 6th, 2016
id 8013516
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pleasedontbetrue ( new member #59121) posted at 5:20 PM on Sunday, November 19th, 2017

Any updates Unsureman? Hang in there and I hope you find the truth.

posts: 18   ·   registered: Jun. 9th, 2017
id 8027858
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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 6:56 PM on Sunday, November 19th, 2017

I want my wife back that I thought I had.

If she was never who you though she was how will you get that back?

posts: 6791   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8027911
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