SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

She has many issues - insecurity, low self esteem, mentally abusive mother who went through relationships, but I am wondering when do I stop trying, when do I go full NC instead of showing compassion and understanding as I am now.

You stop when YOU have had enough.

You can never make anyone do anything they don't want. I think maybe your wife has to deal with her issues before she can be any good to you or your relationship.

She is full of guilt and feels unworthy of you.

Once she has confidence in herself and self worth..she can decide if she wants to continue with you and you with her.

Sometimes it takes rediscovering of yourself to know that your are worth loving.

If you discover you still want to be with her once she has found healing, then things can work out for the better.

It's up to you if you want to wait.

You have to decide if she's worth it to wait for.

tiredgirl,

Can I PM you?

Of course.

Deeply Scared,

Sorry, did not think I was encouraging a fight. Sometimes I get locked into my way of thinking and it takes 2x4 to shake me loose. Thought I was just encouraging blunt response instead of suggestive response. Will keep and eye on myself and try to restrain...Do not mean to cause a problem. Apologies!!!

Tiredgirl and Floridaredman, thanks for your feedback.

xWW is in IC as such. She realised she more fxxked up than she thought and is seeing a "Healer", which from what I understand hovers her hands over your body and senses aura or something. But hey! Whatever works and I am glad she is at least seeing someone and this healer does seem to be positive.

She admits she has had her head up her ass, and a line she said the other day was "Is it worth being on the pink clouds when after you are stuck in the dark tunnel". Sad thing was I believe this was hurt because OM has ditched her and not really loss of our M.

The plus side is that she is realising alot of things about herself and how she has changed. Iceland is a nice place to visit, but the people are very self centred and skin deep, which she has become (one of her issues is to seek others opinions and do what everyone else does/says is right). At least the people she mingles with.

Have I told her the door for recon is closed? No, quite the opposite. Every other conversation I say the door is still open but soon it will start to close, and when I meet someone, we cannot be friends.

I think she is scared to try recon, and has said it would only work for a few months and then we would split - possibly fears her lingering thoughts of other love, maybe opinions of others, fear that things would go back to normal and we have lost our "spark".

You stop when YOU have had enough - Maybe I am hopelessly in love with her, and/or a walkover but I have the strength to persevere.

I am still living my life and keeping my options open (not sure what that says about my dedication to my xWW) as I have to live my life.

I know there is a long way to go and I have my issues to deal with, but sometimes it is just frustrating as we have about 70% of the receipe for a good M, but she is denying giving us any chance. Yes, I understand sometimes this is just life, but it is still shitty!

I wish you both the best.

Tiredgirl and Floridaredman, thanks for your feedback.

xWW is in IC as such. She realised she more fxxked up than she thought and is seeing a "Healer", which from what I understand hovers her hands over your body and senses aura or something. But hey! Whatever works and I am glad she is at least seeing someone and this healer does seem to be positive.

She admits she has had her head up her ass, and a line she said the other day was "Is it worth being on the pink clouds when after you are stuck in the dark tunnel". Sad thing was I believe this was hurt because OM has ditched her and not really loss of our M.

The plus side is that she is realising alot of things about herself and how she has changed. Iceland is a nice place to visit, but the people are very self centred and skin deep, which she has become (one of her issues is to seek others opinions and do what everyone else does/says is right). At least the people she mingles with.

Have I told her the door for recon is closed? No, quite the opposite. Every other conversation I say the door is still open but soon it will start to close, and when I meet someone, we cannot be friends.

I think she is scared to try recon, and has said it would only work for a few months and then we would split - possibly fears her lingering thoughts of other love, maybe opinions of others, fear that things would go back to normal and we have lost our "spark".

You stop when YOU have had enough - Maybe I am hopelessly in love with her, and/or a walkover but I have the strength to persevere.

I am still living my life and keeping my options open (not sure what that says about my dedication to my xWW) as I have to live my life.

I know there is a long way to go and I have my issues to deal with, but sometimes it is just frustrating as we have about 70% of the receipe for a good M, but she is denying giving us any chance. Yes, I understand sometimes this is just life, but it is still shitty!

I wish you both the best.

Tired Girl,

I came to the same conclusion you did. It just took me 9 years and having the shoe put on the other foot to face myself and my actions...still really struggling with the pain inside myself for having put this pain so unfairly on BS. It is sad that I was not aware of the level of pain she has been suppressing and dealing with for 9 years. She is just now letting the pain out and it is painful to watch and not know what to do to help. Now that I have that same pain of being a BS I can finally see myself and how my selfish, justifying, and rationalizing mind allowed me to make the wrong choice.

Still Going,

Your point is well taken...maybe I conveyed my feelings wrongly here. I reitterate that though I do understand that ultimately we are responsible for the choices we make I just feel like myself FWH/BH and FWW/BW both tried to handle it the RIGHT WAY but both were not receptive to eachothers attempts. Thus made it EASIER for the Wayward party to make the WRONG CHOICE....I am not excusing the wrong choice. Just trying to take the responsibility of putting FWW in that bad position of feeling like she even needed to be tempted to seek her needs being met outside the marriage...Bottom line is we both have to absorb the complete responsibility for our own bad choice but also have to absorb the responsibility for putting the WS in that position to begin with. I am trying to look at the bigger picture of the Why and how I might have done things differently to not put FWW in that position to begin with. It is like...I put the steak on the table and walked away and my dog made a bad choice to take the steak....the dog was wrong but I could have avoided the loss of the steak by not putting him in a position to make that choice (We have lots of dogs so this analogy was a real situation more than once). I was still hurt by the loss of that beutiful steak and I did punish and scold the dog but I have to take responsiblity for the events leading up to the dog making the bad choice...Ultimately the dog could have walked away but the temptation to fulfill his selfish needs were too strong and I made it too easy for him. Had I put the steak on the counter he could still have gotten to it if he chose but it would have been harder and he may have chosen differently. that is all I am trying to say and just can't seem to word it properly...

Frank,

I understand the example you are trying to use. And I felt this way in the beginning as well. It has only been over time and gaining some respect for myself that I see that the better way of handling things would have been to call him and tell him that I wanted a divorce , see a lawyer, file papers and then maybe start to proceed to get on with my life This was not the way to do things. Temptation or not. I should have been a better person.

FRM,

Your point too is well taken so I feel the need to explain further. But first I have to agree with you completely that the best choice would have been to end the marriage before trying to meet my selfish needs.

So here is the more complete version of the conversation I had with BW...it went something like...We are like two bad roommates...we don't talk anymore, we don't sit in the same room anymore, we don't eat together anymore, we don't sleep in the same room, we don't make love anymore. If this is going to be our relationship then I am going to go out and do my own thing and start my own life. Neither one of us can afford to move out right now so I will not bring anyone home and I will not rub your face in it but I need to have a real relationship...thus her response. The situation was that she had just recently gone back to work part time and I had just lost a very very lucrative job, the IRS just wiped us out and we had little or no income, a lifestyle based on the former incomes, and nowhere to turn for help...could not afford a divorce or seperate living quarters...the OW in question needed a roommate as she had kicked her BF out for guess what....I needed to feel desired and she was going to be my next residence...problem solved!!! NOT!!!! Still loved BW...tried to force myself past that by going back second time....Just couldn't get past it!!! That is why I sat in hotel room all night trying to figure out what I was going to do since I had just taken the exit A off the table...left me with two choices (1) go home and tough it out as bad roommates or (2) suicide. I had been fighting off the suicidal thoughts brought on by financial failure and a bleak financial future...My thoughts at the time were that if this is all life has to offer me then I don't want to live anymore. STUPID I know...just telling you my mindset at the time. This was when I dragged my selfish, unhappy, sorry ass back through the door only to find the new wife!!! The mistake I made and freely admit was the horrible solution and choice to have the exit A while still loving BW. Then compounded the whole mess by adopting the attitude that I did the right thing by having the A and forcing HER to make a choice. So to make it EVEN WORSE I took on the attitude of entitlment and did not appreciate her efforts to work on MY issues. EVEN F**king WORSE I completely dismissed her needs as irrelevant because after all this was about MY NEEDS...wasted the last nine years believing it could not have been the wrong thing because it had a positive outcome...Wife LOVES ME and we are still MARRIED!!! Of course her efforts and needs were ignored so we eventually slid right back into the fucked up marriage and near total disconnection which on and off persisted to her A. Hence I made it too easy for her to make the wrong choice...still her responsibility but I just made it easier. I am just owning my shit too as a severely mentally, and emotionally, handicapped, BS and one sorry excuse for a man and human being. Her choice and my choice is wrong but this is my dealing with how we both ended up making the bad choices.

Hope I was able to get my thoughts out more clearly and fully understand how my thoughts may not be agreed with. But my thoughts fit my situation and may not fit others...this post was just planting a seed of thought for those who feel it applies. That is why I invited the 2x4s just in case I am looking at myself and my situation all wrong. Trying to keep an open mind while I sort through my shit looking for my wedding ring I chewed up and swallowed!!!

Another BS, and this is such an amazing post! It helps to have the man's point of view on the A, and from what WH has said, you are right on the money. It gives me a lot of hope for our R...thanks again!

Thank you for this post.

Bottom line is we both have to absorb the complete responsibility for our own bad choice but also have to absorb the responsibility for putting the WS in that position to begin with.

To say it bluntly, I will not absorb the responsibility for "putting the WS in that position to begin with." because I did not.

It is like...I put the steak on the table and walked away and my dog made a bad choice to take the steak....the dog was wrong but I could have avoided the loss of the steak by not putting him in a position to make that choice (We have lots of dogs so this analogy was a real situation more than once). I was still hurt by the loss of that beutiful steak and I did punish and scold the dog but I have to take responsiblity for the events leading up to the dog making the bad choice...Ultimately the dog could have walked away but the temptation to fulfill his selfish needs were too strong and I made it too easy for him. Had I put the steak on the counter he could still have gotten to it if he chose but it would have been harder and he may have chosen differently. that is all I am trying to say and just can't seem to word it properly...

This is more than a dog table surfing. It is more than a child making a poor decision. It is about personal, adult responsibility. A dog or a child cannot make an informed decision. A dog cannot lie, a child cannot comprehend dishonest the way an adult can without being taught.

My wife and I were in a dark place. I drank too much. She had been emotionally abusive for years. Why should she take responsibility for my drinking? Because she was emotionally abusive? I could have left. I could have found help or certainly found a better coping mechanism. Yes, she could have been there for me, she could have been a caring and loving woman, but she wasn't. She is responsible for her own behavior, as I was responsible for mine, and our situation was just that - a situation. We made it for ourselves, not each other. We each chose to stay where we were.

My wife is not a dog unable to resist the meaty deliciousness of a rare steak. She is not a child without the capacity to reason out the concept of delayed gratification. She is an intelligent, thoughtful woman who did knowingly and willfully did something terrible when she had a host of other options. Now she is double timing it to make those other options a reality. She is taking responsibility for her position in life and moving it to where she wants it to be in an honest and forthright manner, as difficult as that is.

I am impressed and cannot express in words the joy at seeing my wife take full responsibility for herself and her place in life, and further, wanting to make that place with me. I will not take responsibility for that, either. Her hard work is hers.

Apologies if that was long winded.

Seems appropriate to bump this today. FRM and lostall, good posts. Both of you.

I'm so glad this was bumped. WHat a great post to read today...

I gotta agree with lostall on this one and as far as my mindset goes I really don't like blanket definitions.

It's hard for me to sit back and give BS's carte blanche to do what they please and not be held responsible for anything because of it....

So for you WS's taking ownership of your shit...I say to you that I myself do not subscribe to the thoughts that "WS is evil and BS is good" and I say the same to you BS's reading on here!!!

Very true. This site is made for BSs and the doctrine on here focuses very much on the idea that the BS is an innocent victim and the WS is a selfish person and the worst possible thing in the world is sex outside of marriage.

I am the WS, but years ago I guess I was the BS. I don't think about myself in those terms and forgiving my WH at that time was not all that hard. We went through a difficult period with quite a few life issues that affect my H at that time. He had a ONS, he came home and admitted it. Lots of circumstances, included my behavior, contributed to it happening. My H was ashamed, realized it wasn't what he wanted in life ever again, and was completely honest about how and why. Yes, I had all those waves of feelings, anger, revulsion, jealousy, despair, etc., but once I could think unemotionally I could see how it happened. I could understand the how and why. And, our partnership, our life and love, goals and family were certainly about a heck of a lot more than just sex. And, I did not lose respect for my H through this experience, I gained respect. I gained respect for his honesty, his integrity in being able to admit a weakness. I did not trust him less, I trusted him more.

Fast forward to me being WW. This was a much, much bigger thing, a 1000 times worse. I did not just betray him in a sexual way, but in an emotional way, totally. Even with all this, he stepped forward and tried to shoulder some of the blame. He tried to look at how he could have contributed to this happening to OUR relationship.

The ideal situation for reconcilation is where the WS accepts responsibility for the affair and does not try to place the blame on either the OP or the BS, where the WS realizes that what ever problems the marriage had, those problems were shared, and finally when the BS is willing to take a share of responsibility for the problems in the marriage.

Only: Agree 100%....well said

;bump....valuable info here. ;Would like to get it out here just a little longer

This is a great post. I have been obsessed with figuring out the mindset and the why for my FWW A. I just can't wrap my pea brain around it. All I can so is some sort of temporary insanity. We were actually trying to have a baby towards the end of the A. After dday 1, when I thought it was just a kiss, we found out she was preganant, she said they only had sex one time that would have effected the pregnancy and they used protection and he didn't "finish ". But in her mind, she was elated about the pregnancy, not even thinking that she still was hiding the 5 month full blown A from me. The insanity made her believe that trying to get pregnant while having an A was acceptable. She told OM that we were going to have another baby, which he was mad about. One of the nights she was bragging at a small camping gathering of OM and friends about me and DS and how we were going to have another baby, only to go into his tent and have sex. Crazyness to the nth degree. It makes no sense, but at least a thread like this can give me some insight. Thank you FRM. I know that this woman was not my W. Nobody with any sense of sanity would have done or thought the way things she did. Dday 2 she snapped out of the fog immediately and realized just what she had done.

[This message edited by thundersdad78 at 7:01 AM, January 10th (Monday)]

Good reading. Bump for newbies...