SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

((((contaminated))))

Sorry that you find yourself here but these good people will be here to listen, empathise and guide you as you deal with this level of unimaginable betrayal.

My experience on SI, reading through people's stories, IMO there is a high possibility that your wife had a full blown affair and might have gone longer than Aug 07. She might be minimizing in the name of protecting you. Adults do not love people of the opposite sex not related to them unless the are f*ck buddies. Like someone said before you need information. Do not believe anything she says and only half of what you see. For a whole year my WH denied even knowing the OW but voila when I became uncompromising on that and demanded his respect or no marriage, he knew the OW but just as his student who wanted to trade sex for marks but nothing happened. I am still waiting for more because I know better than to believe this

Also be prepared for trickle truth.

Sending you support

Stiilnpain and luvingme, Thanks. I would hope the A would demand atypical behavior rather than be a conduit for allowing dormant, repressed urges to be acted upon. A distinct problem here is that the W may have never gotten to know herself. (extremely repressive and emotionally abusive upbringing and married very young with 1st kid at 19). So she may not even be aware what her moral base is. It's like living in the matrix. Everything is not as it seems, is not reality but if all appears to be acceptable ...then cool, play it out. I kind of figured it was f*ck buddies, not stupid (just want to not entertain wife relegating herself to that). With that said I feel the odds are against full and complete disclosure. I fear she is incapable of admitting that. That is a basic standard that would have to be met in MC. Unfortunately, I think it will be a awhile until she is capable and I would have to wait for her to get there. That sucks. I'm ready to get healthy. However, for me today, it's not a deal breaker yet about the kids. Dunno.

I admire your strength. Keep up taking care of yourself. Read from the healing library especially about the stages of recovery. The first one is denial where I am tempted to place you right now and it is very normal. This is when you can't quite believe that your very loving WS actually did that, you raise alot of excuses for them. If you survive this you move to anger etc. Keep taking care of yourself, it is still early and you are yet to go through all emotions. The good news is that with time they all go and you can forgive and move on in or out of the marriage. I personally prefer moving on within the marriage

Contaminated,

Not defending a WS in any way, so don't get me wrong.

If the fact that it MAY have been a PA, or not, is not a deal-breaker, is it necessary to force a confession via MC?

I realize there are reasons to do so, ie: face their demons, own their shit, etc etc.

However, in the event the adverse behavior is no longer present, what good can come of forcing a person to be humiliated, embarrassed, and ashamed?

If PA were a deal-breaker, it would be understandable for the BS to know, or if the WS were continuing with bad behavior.

In some cases a WS has an A and later realizes how stupid a mistake it was, would never do it again, etc. Point is, humiliating the individual will not change the behavior, since the bad behavior is no longer there anyway. They learned from their mistake and vowed within themselves to never do it again.

I realize it gets all twisted - but at the end of the day it all comes down to the character and morals of the offender.

A BS can scream for details till they're blue in the face, but will never know everything. There are only two people who know everything that happened, and the BS ain't one of them.

My FWW made this point clear to me. She asked if she told me something ELSE, would it make a difference whether I stayed or not?

I replied, that soon after DDay it might have made a difference, but now nearly 3 yrs later, no.

Since there is now remorse, and no indications of the twisted behavior of the past, her point was, Would it make me feel better to humiliate her? Embarrass her? Strip her of all dignity?

Yes, I wanted to know everything, but at what cost?

Destroy a person who made a terrible mistake, just so I can know everything?

Again, not defending a WS. Just pointing out something to think about.

contaminated,

I would bet a very large sum of money that this was not just an EA.

A massage? In a bedroom?

No way, no how.

Here is my question. If the WS did the following: admitted to having an affair that started in Jan 07 till Aug 07,; that she allowed it to happen and then once starting manifesting, actively pursued,: that she has kept these photos for 3 years on email, that she had a text professing love in mar 07 that son read; that she was caught by other son in "his" bedroom getting a massage from OM in Aug 07; and that she is equally ashamed that it happened and not happy at all that she got caught, then is it just me or am I not alone in thinking that the WS if full of crap trying to tell me that her very first opportunity to have sex in this 8 month A was interrupted by son who caught her. She had spent many weekends in next town before and after "studying" for school. Although this is three years old for her, it's 3 weeks old for me. She is devastated. She has adopted the proper attitude of remorse and guilt but I can't know if it's genuine for me or selfish for her. Also admitting this has been devastating to both of us, but I have a sneaking suspicion (knowing her so well that) that the odds say she was engaged in a full blown EA and SA. Instead of just kissing. I know the answer may be obvious but again, I've never been in this situation before. She is the type who thinks "well it was long ago, the gory details are not important, it's water under the bridge". "Just admitting to an EA is good enough". It was bad enough for her to admit to it, but unspeakable to admit to having an SA and doing with another what her devoted husband "wished" he could do with her in the bedroom. I told her I do not trust her, don't believe her and can't really entertain that unless it's done in front of a sane and impartial MC. After all, she carried this lie for 3 years, kept pictures, and demanded sons complicity with the threat if they told "everything would be ruined ie. family busted up house sold etc. Regardless, it's just as disturbing to find out that your spouse is 5 times more f*cked up in the head than you previoulsy imagined. To me odds say it was a torrid SA.

Sorry as badly as you may wish that you are reading the signs incorrectly and want to believe her that are just too many signs that point to this being so much more than she is trying to portray. Agree with you that it was a sexual affair.

She has adopted the proper attitude of remorse and guilt but I can't know if it's genuine for me or selfish for her

Hate to say this but if she is still lying to you then she hasn't "adopted the proper attitude of remorse and guilt".

Based on what you have told us I (and I would guess that most others here) would not be surprised if what you now know doesn't begin to scratch the surface of the true story of the extent of her infidelity and betrayal. WS's are confirmed liars and cheats. That is what they do, lie and cheat. So it is very unusual for a WS to give their BS the whole truth once their affair has been discovered. They almost always lie and try to minimize their actions. You can check this yourself by reading any number of the all too many stories here. You cannot help but notice how many WS's continue to lie over and over to their BS's after their dirty affairs have been discovered.

To carry on her affair in the close proximity of her children where she was seen by your son says a lot about her total lack of judgement. But for your WS to have your children lie to protect her affair is in my opinion below despicable and raises many disturbing questions about your wife's character.

I have one piece of advise for you and it can be summed up in one word, "POLYGRAPH"

Friend, it is always worse than they tell you, and they will minimize and lie as part of their damage control. If she could use your children to hide her infideliy what makes you think that she wouldn't have had unprotected sex with him? They were togther a long time and if she is comfortable enough to be in his bedroom, with your children home, getting a rubdown, chances are they have had full contact sex. If she was willing to take that secret to her grave,she won't confess anymore to you than you already know. One of your requirements for reconciliation might be a rquirement for her to take a polygraph test. She has been dishonest to you, I don't see her changing because of her actions. Demand the test.

For me, hurt or use my kid/s, it's war. There is NO excuse for blackmailing a child the way she did. NONE.

Also they never tell you the whole truth. You get TT until either they come out of the fog or you D and you never get it.

Stillinpain,

If the fact that it MAY have been a PA, or not, is not a deal-breaker, is it necessary to force a confession via MC?

I realize there are reasons to do so, ie: face their demons, own their shit, etc etc.

However, in the event the adverse behavior is no longer present, what good can come of forcing a person to be humiliated, embarrassed, and ashamed?

If PA were a deal-breaker, it would be understandable for the BS to know, or if the WS were continuing with bad behavior.

In some cases a WS has an A and later realizes how stupid a mistake it was, would never do it again, etc. Point is, humiliating the individual will not change the behavior, since the bad behavior is no longer there anyway. They learned from their mistake and vowed within themselves to never do it again.

I realize it gets all twisted - but at the end of the day it all comes down to the character and morals of the offender.

A BS can scream for details till they're blue in the face, but will never know everything. There are only two people who know everything that happened, and the BS ain't one of them.

Boy are you guys a lifesaver! You are answering questions in my head before I even verbalize (or textize). Very good point and my therapist said the same thing to me today. "So when she gets here and you go into MC after going to lengths she went to concealing, what makes you think she will burst open and be like you when you have been waiting your whole marriage for her to be as open and honest as you". I said "good point, a little unrealistic eh?" I'm not sure I want to know the FD. I don't need any more help in my head with the visuals. Especially since I'm approaching this and assuming a PA did occur. Does it really matter if it's from that long ago. Shrink said you know her better than anyone on the planet, and just by your observing her actions, you will know if she has remorse and genuine care and affection with you. But she never has met my needs in that department or sexually so it would be a pleasant surprise if our marriage did change for the better.

I agree with your Counselor.

Another thing to think about:

Decisions are difficult, deciding whether to stay, go , R, D, S, or whatever.

My Counselor, he is online and by phone but is SUPER, he said when trying to decide what to do early on after DDAY, he always advises the BS to make a conscious decision to stay until you don't hurt anymore.

The reasoning -

1) You are going to hurt regardless whether you stay or go. So you might as well let the one who hurt you share in the pain.

2) Keeps the couple together until the 'RAW' has worn off and emotions are not making the decisions any longer.

3) Separations inherently cause more problems. ie: suspecting more A related crap to happen. So staying together prevents that.

4) Gives the WS an opportunity to prove they are worthy of reconciliation.

And who knows - some Hysterical Bonding might occur and the couple commits to reconciliation.

Rather logical -

If you ever want to talk to him PM me, or just google Fred McAllen. He's all over the net.

Man now this is getting surreal. I'm so glad for you folks. That's what my oldest brother said too. "The point of Marriage counseling is to get healthy in your marriage to hopefully take it to new heights or to get healthy enough to not be afraid anymore to separate". I agree whole heartedly with all four points. I've been married 20 years, separated 5 years, so I have nothing but time. Plus I would be bill free first if we ever D'd.

You know we all took marriage vows but........ on the other hand, It was presumptuous of me to automatically assume my wife was made and endeared herself to exactly the same moral fiber and standards I've chosen to live my life by.

It was presumptuous of me to automatically assume my wife was made and endeared herself to exactly the same moral fiber and standards I've chosen to live my life by.

No it wasn't. It would have been if you had expressed to each other different ideals before marriage or if you two had vastly different ideas of what marriage is. The reason marriage is considered an "institution" is because everyone knows that when you get married it's expected that you will remain faithful to one another "Until death do you part". It is so ingrained in the fabric of our lives that in the early years of this nation it was decided that one's spouse could not be compelled to testify against one in court.

You presumed that your WW would honor her vows, as you have done. If she had different morals at the time those vows were taken then she should have said so. If her moral compass changed during your marriage she should have said so. Simple fact is, they know it's wrong and they do it anyway. They often justify it in various ways but they know deep down it's wrong.

For you, this affair ended when you found out about it, because she has been lying (or at least allowing you to believe falsehoods) since it started. You don't think that's going to change just because you are in MC together, do you?

My honest and best advice to you is assume the worst. Deal with the worst case scenario in your head. Get your head wrapped around that good and tight and hopefully it won't be as bad as you can imagine. I say this because you can bet that if she has lied to you this long, she's not done doing it yet. An affair is rarely, very rarely completely confessed in one go. WS almost always hold something back. It's part of the WS playbook.

Keep your guard up. Sympathy is as misplaced right now as trust.

The point of having her confess is so that she owns her shit and starts working on what is broken inside of her made her think it was ok for her to have an affair. It's not to humiliate or embarass her.

Otherwise you are just sweeping it under the rug and you are likely to be facing the same situation again in the future.

A wound that is full of pus inside will never heal. You have to lance it, get the pus out and clean it thoroughly in order for it to heal properly.

Therapist said I will have to have basic needs met when MC starts, but that I have to realistic when with a wife like mine. I most likely will be destroyed if the revelation of this A is not used as a catalyst to get right and honest by god, her, me and the kids. Life is too short to be a pussy. We'll see how "fearless" she is about it.

Stillnpain PM in inbox

[This message edited by contaminated at 4:22 AM, August 27th (Friday)]

Not sure this will end up good. It's killing me waiting to get in MC. Me doing the right things. Lost 20lbs now, and DYED MY HAIR today for first time. Still waiting to start pounding the weights again. I used to be a model for a few years when I was younger. I will be back in the game in another 30lbs. Woooooooooooot!!

Ahhh, the infidelity diet. I did enjoy that part.

She was caught by your son in your son's room? Same son that she's overly affectionate with?

Remember, you are at your strongest at time of confrontation, demand what it is you need from her in order to stay in the marriage, don't back down. She is in damage control, remember the polygraph if you need to use it. Demand that she suffer the humiliation of an STD test, don't have unprotected sex with her until she does.

Yeah might as well make some good out of it.

Yes my son who caught her was the one she was overly affectionate with. She was always saying "he needs love". Kind of sick and don't want to even think of that but you can bet your ass I'll be asking in front of MC. I have my ups and downs but will have no problems leaving her (except broken dreams and the fact my marriage was a lie..part of her matrix). I don't know if I can forgive her honestly and don't know if the truth will ever come out of her sick hole. Would like to ask how ficked up people can be to be that sick and selfish and not even say "you know..I'm not happy..oh and my favorite "it's not you, it's me. The epitome of self centered. Have to ask a few questions on ws forum how many sickies in the fog regretted being dumped and divorced after realizing their dreams...the dreams that would complete them turned out to not be greener pastures. Bottom line as much as it breaks my heart is ...NO HEALTHY in the head and choose to embrace the fog because reality is too painful= NO MARRIAGE. I can't believe how many women throw away a husband at his prime.