SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's worse than the bottle or the cards, too...(which, unlike abuse, can both have some hidden aspects) because you are being disregarded, disrespected for a thing - not another person.

Being disrespected for a thing is "better" than being disrepected for a person?

For the RA, if it helps the BS/WS balance the scales, that's fine. If not having an RA makes the BS resent the M for the rest of their lives, then go ahead and have one.

If the BS/WS feels any remorse at all afterwards, the digging is the same.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 6:36 PM, November 4th (Friday)]

I am not going expand the ridiculousness that speaks to justifying a so-called "revenge affair." Wincings has said it well enough.

Let's think about this logistically. How does this RA work? It is a ONS from Craig's List? A close friend? A few times? A few weeks? Months? How many men or women? Is one enough? We have heard of some having multiple "revenge"affairs. Is it supposed to equal the number of times the WS cheated? Until the BS feels a sense of satisfaction? What is the statute of limitations? A month, a year, ten? Or does the BS get to make up that time frame?

We choose how we respond to life-altering events.

Remember that the WS has a choice too, if the BS decides to have a RA. And that may not be the outcome the BS desired.

So much I want to address from your post, UO...

But I have to also admit that many times I am confused by your responses. I greatly respect your opinion on many things. But - and just speaking honestly here while also realizing that it may entirely be within my own limitations - it seems that you make contradictory statements and I am often confused about what your "bottom line" point is.

As an example...

we discussed murder yesterday where you made your stance quite clearly (and with humor) known. Does that mean that you think murder is not wrong? And if not, does that mean that some aspect of your morality is situational?

Ok...let's go with what I would guess to be your answer and assume, under certain conditions, you believe murder to be justice served.

So...if we use that as an example then I am left to ask you why you would draw such a harder line when it comes to infidelity? We are then left to discuss it from a perspective of "what's worse". I'm not interested in doing that either. But, to me, drawing lines means that you do it in ALL areas of morality. You either color inside the lines or you don't. You can't just do it with the red crayon.

So the last possible issue of contention that is left is the idea that I somehow think I can "excuse" my behavior...that I am not "owning my shit".

That is not what I am saying at all. And where you get frustrated that these discussions become derailed from the original post, I get frustrated that the idea of justification somehow translates to excuse...or a free pass.

If I chose to cheat then I would expect much of the same fall-out my H. has experienced. I wouldn't be trusted, my emails/phone would be checked, and he would probably contemplate divorce - among many other consequences.

t/j

JUSTIFICATION

Synonyms: alibi, apology, defense, excuse, plea, reason

end t/j

Semantics are a bitch.

Does that mean that you think murder is not wrong? And if not, does that mean that some aspect of your morality is situational?

Considering we have a justice system in place, would going outside the system and killing the person who killed your child be due to a long standing brokeness due to FOO issues or being broken due to the murder of your child?

I'm sorry but suggesting that a BS can't be broken by their WS having an A is serious minimizing. It's being suggested that a BS must have been a broken person in the first place to have M'd someone who would end up cheating on them. Any brokeness a BS experiences after dday must be the result of FOO issues

You know...I'm going to bow out of this.

This is a topic that always gets me in trouble...and I know that before I even get started.

It's just that coming to this place that I am now at - to have finally settled this battle between my own integrity vs. my sense of justice - it was just such a hard earned strip. Probably THE single hardest aspect of my own recovery so it strikes a place really close to my heart.

Somehow when I talk about it it provokes anger and comes off as an excuse...and that's never the intent. So...I'm going to stop digging now.

I'm sorry if this has upset or insulted anyone.

The intention of the original post was that there is NO excuse- NONE WHATSOEVER to have an affair. Not abuse. Not gambling. Not drinking. Not even if your spouse had an affair first.

When dday happened for me, I justified as much as I could about my marriage being awful and went through the whole, "well if YOU wouldn't have... Then I wouldn't have..." I got better. I am getting better everyday.

I happen to be a WS whose H had several inappropriate, gross activities while I was involved in my A, and he had a revenge A for good measure. It didn't help.

None of what I have read from the WSs here has come access as justification or as minimizing in anyway other than sarcastically.

There is no excuse "good enough"- none. Not ever.

Ok...let's go with what I would guess to be your answer and assume, under certain conditions, you believe murder to be justice served.

Let's be clear. I view murder wrong. Period. I find no conflict with my view and my post about killing someone that hurt my child and I was quite clear. I was no doing that for justice. I no longer consider some twisted fuck that hurts children human. I was clear. I don't believe in right to life.

I am quite aware that killing someone is breaking my moral code. I'm fine with that. I wouldn't post on a reforming murderers website asking for help getting over my guilt. What guilt?

What you're not understanding is my post isn't addressing morality choices. Those are yours alone. If you have a RA on your husband and are fine with it, then so am I.

If you have one then post in wayward that you're struggling with your choice but feel somehow it is more justified than the "typical" wayward that's where I have the problem.

Hair splitting, situational morality, justification is fine for all who choose to practice it. Just don't then ask for help thinking you get the fast trac lane because you were cheated on first.

Justification always translates to excuse. We only justify what we're uncomfortable with. We're uncomfortable with what isn't right for us.

If I shoot the mother fucker that hurts/kills my baby I'm not justifying anything. I don't have to. Problem solved. Clean the gun. Sleep soundly. I'm not looking for absolution or understanding. My choice. My consequences. Period.

The difference between an A and a RA is that a RA is an irrational response to a trauma.

There's not a lot of good sound thinking that goes on in the mind of a BS after a dday. Trauma does that to people.

Trauma, not FOO issues, can cause a person to kill their child's murderer despite having laws such as the death penalty to take care of such criminals.

Trauma, not FOO issues can cause a BS to have a RA.

My WH's A was about a whole lot of brokeness and zero trauma.

Very different frame of minds.

Not to T/J an already t/J thread, but I think most mothers feel that way. And probably fathers. Get between me and my kid, you will pay the price.

And I think it is the justification that has gone on in this thread that has seriously upset a lot of people. There is no justification. Period. Ever.Not in my book. That is why I am on this side vs the other.

Trauma does that to people.

If you're a BS, apparently. Not if you're a WS.

What you don't seem to get is you just described many WS's affairs, results of trauma. Your buy in is not necessary. Doesn't change anything.

Still no excuse. So why look for one? If you're so comfortable with your conclusion then have a RA. You don't need anyone's permission or acceptance do you?

I explained my killing logic quite clearly. It has absolutely nothing to do with FOO or anything else. I don't need to excuse it, justify it or get a pass for it. It's my choice. So I also accept the consequences and won't look for any leniency.

Isn't that really what this whole discussion is about. Some thinking they should get a pass?

This thread's topic of RA's (no matter who has done it or considered doing it) is a hot button that obviously and logically can lead to many other layers for discussion and opinions about causes/ fall-out of infidelity.

And many can and do have an opinion.

Certainly, a WS's view and ultimate perspective about RA may differ from that of a BS. That's not a mystery of the ages. It just is (or can be)...specific to the individual psyches and after-damage to the people involved.

Nor is the fact that if a BS then chooses to play with that fire and its consequences, that too is specific to them and their unique circumstances. As cliche-d and predictable as infidelity can be at first glance, each case and its aftermath can take very individual turns. Sometimes it just has to be that..that every case is different.

That's not excusing or defining degrees of culpability. Cheating is cheating...and the cheater then has to deal with themselves. That is the cold reality of infidelity.

What we all come here for is to listen, to speak and to take what feels helpful, respectfully leaving behind what doesn't.

I'm sorry but suggesting that a BS can't be broken by their WS having an A is serious minimizing. It's being suggested that a BS must have been a broken person in the first place to have M'd someone who would end up cheating on them. Any brokeness a BS experiences after dday must be the result of FOO issues

Yes! Thank you. It's not an excuse, reason, or justification but a fact some of us BS experience.

If that quote was referring to my post that's not what I was suggesting at all. I stated that sometimes dysfunctions can attract and bond. That is in no way saying a BS is ever to blame for a WS choice to cheat. They aren't. Ever.

deleted my post... out of respect for WS's

decided it was better suited for a BS thread, and not a WS's thread

[This message edited by brokenandfedup at 12:28 AM, November 6th (Sunday)]