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As a BS I see this with Perv (STBXH). It startled me to see him change, as he was a person who had a cow if we changed the gum drawer.

He has taken to multiple pairs of glasses, different hair do's (what there is) and has weight fluxuations that are pretty ...big differences.

He has also changed his body but I won't be graphic, just shaving where he never used to and making a point to tell me. Also, FWIW, during false R, he spoke many, many women's names who we knew but was not like that before.

Much of his conversation was about women, a neighbor he saw on the way to pick up DD, the neighbors who were moving and so on. This intensely bothered me, not because he did it, but because he did it without a care for me and he knew they were people I didn't come into contact with...like wanting me to know he notices the other species now, and now he comes across as a jigelow. I'm sorry I veered off topic of appearance, I was thinking of change in WS's in general.

He also bought a car to "commute" with and claims to want different clothes when there is more money "freed up". Part of his A has been a MLC and I try to remember that, but the changes are hard to watch and truly back up the fact of how different he is from who I knew... or thought I knew.

I, too, suffer terrible self esteem issues and feel degraded, as a result of his actions. His A with OW was only part of what he hid.

I think the lies mess with our heads and being abandoned does, too? It makes it hard to feel like I can hang onto anything or anyone and I feel like, who will I lose next?

My mother lived with us for a time after she was cheated on (not by my father, but she left him though)...so trust in people isn't something I have going now.

"Normal". I can't find anything normal about life now and a calm day feels strange...like, okay, what's brewing this time?

P.S. There's some interesting activity online, too, though I don't look anymore...he puts different places he lives and there are also some places that have him as a different age. He's a person with a "fairly common name", but these are most definitely him. I've wondered in the past (not anymore) what would be the point of that, esp. when looking for a job and being inconsistent may be harmful to being hired?

BS here. I'm going to avoid the term "normal" here, and just say that I feel like it is a COMMON reaction, I think, for a variety of reasons... But certainly not conducive to R, and probably not healthy. I don't know that this sort of reaction in the wake of a traumatic event is ALWAYS indicative of some kind of chronic self-esteem issue, or if he's just trying to fill in the (temporary) self-esteem crater that the A bomb left behind. In either case though, it doesn't lead to a healthy place, and having the kids involved is definitely an issue.

it is normal to want to feel wanted by someone

Sooooooo, when one spouse is a workaholic and unavailable that wouldn't create pain? When one spouse chooses their hobby over their spouse that wouldn't create pain and rejection? When one spouse turns sex down repeatedly making the other spouse feel like they're begging and denied that wouldn't create pain? Finding someone that "wants you" wouldn't cross one's mind?

I ask because I've seen many BS's honestly confess to pretty shitty starvation of their spouse emotionally and physcially to be told over and over again how their actions toward their spouse DO NOT MATTER. I personally feel that's total bullshit, of course they matter, however, the bottom line is THE CHOICE TO CHEAT IS ALWAYS THE CHEATER'S. Period!!!! No fucking addendum, caveat, justification, exclusion applies to that basic truth.

He has not made his intentions on the marriage clear. His actions, though, are quite clear. They're fucked up. What I struggle with is the threads in general where BS's can not seem to wrap their heads around the "wayward" mentality. Well, apparently that ain't totally true as a few seem to get it quite well. They just "understand" it when it is done by a "BS".

Y'all do realize many of us were betrayed before so get that whole intense pain core concept quite well. We also get how that can do a real number on thought processes and mind sets not shored up to sustain that type of hit.

Having a plane on the tarmac is how many people "break up". The whole alone thing is muy no bueno so finding that pre-game "support" makes the actual party so much more fun and doable. No risk of lonely too much time for thinking and hurting.

Normal, is a word used as if it equates to "ok". How many things do you see often in society that are not anywhere close to the neighborhood of ok? Half marriages end in divorce. Drinking and drugs hit a very large percentage of people. That's normal. Think that's ok?

Normal only means within the norm. The swell in the bell. Yeah, don't want to live my life in that cluster fuck, thank you very much.

He's free to make the same choices many of us have. You're free to actually make some healthy choices and find out, again, your rights regarding house and custody and protect those along with your children. Tolerating bullshit is NEVER a healthy choice for either. So stop...tolerating...anything that you know is wrong from yourself or him.

I can't tell you if it's Normal or not but I can tell you that for the first couple day after dday it was pure pain then I had 1 day that I thought I want him to understand & feel what I feel. That thought left Very quickly because I never want to inflict what I felt on someone I love. If I were you I would make it clear that this will not help R. I made the mistake when WH & I were separated 5yrs ago I moved out & ignored a lot of things because we ended up together...now I am dealing with R because when I moved out he slept with OW & lied about it and it kills me because she played with my ds etc. He needs to make up his mind & choose because my wh will tell you...it's really bad if you do R and your wife finds out 5yrs later that you have been lying for 5 yrs. We have basically started over & the last 4yrs (to me) when things seemed great ended up a total lie. Even if you are a wayward you don't deserve to be a bs in my personal opinion ((hug))

ETA: I was not a wayward we were separated due to other issues

[This message edited by anv5 at 5:50 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]

Since Dday my BH has done some interesting things, and I'm not sure if they are normal reactions from a BS or something more...he has made physical changes; started wearing contacts even though he has always been terrified of them and started working out.

You blew his self esteem. So he is working on himself now. A completely normal reaction. You emasculated him, so he is taking charge of his life and how he feels about himself now. I did the same thing.

For my birthday I went out to dinner with a few friends and BH went to the bar with my former best friend and her new boyfriend, even though he knows I am not ok with him hanging out with her

What do you really have to say about it though? You are separated.

Unless he makes a pass at her, you really lost the right to complain. And even then, again, you are separated.

Most recently he had the previously mentioned female coworker over to our house for dinner while our daughter was also there....this happened last night actually and I found out when our dd innocently mentioned it to me. When I confronted him about it he said it was totally innocent and they are just friends....I should also mention that this coworker is a woman who I do not trust.....she has had multiple affairs with many different married men and tends to put her own needs in front of her children.

I will agree that until any divorce is final, he needs to keep possible significant others away from the kids.

Having said that, does he need a V8 slap to the head? Doesn't he realize what will happen if he hooks up with a known cheater and OW will end up getting him? Unless he is just out for fun and no commitments, it isn't going to end well for him.

But again, you are separated, and you cheated on him. Its not your call any longer. Personally if I were him, I'd wait until a divorce was final. But he is handling the situation he has been put in in his own way. Thats on him.

Is this a normal way for a BS to react? Part of me thinks he is doing it only to get back at me and make me angry, but I'm not sure.

I think its normal, but I'd have more respect for a fellow BS, coming from a fBS, if he'd have some self respect and wait to start dating after a divorce. I'm assuming thats what is coming since you are separated.

But other than waiting, yes, its normal. You destroyed him, made him feel undesirable, so he is out to prove to himself that he is. He is out to better himself and get back in the game. I just think he is rushing it a bit. But having a "date" around the kids before a divorce, IMHO, shouldn't happen.

Now if somehow I have all this wrong and you aren't truly separated, then I suppose it still might be normal to an extent. But if you are suppose to try to work on the M, then he should not be doing this, even though you cheated on him. He should hold himself to a higher standard and simply hold your feet to the fire. But if you are to reconcile, then he too now has lost all right to complain about what you did.

[This message edited by nofool4u at 4:25 PM, June 14th (Friday)]

Wow...I really didn't think my post would get so many responses but am certainly glad it has.

I am hoping to R and have told him that many times. He has said he doesn't know what he wants. I have asked him multiple times to let me move back home, since I don't think we can fix anything if we aren't living together and really spending time together. He continues to say no.

I did speak to him about the situation and how it made me feel and after getting defensive he admitted that it does "look sketchy".

He has worked with this woman for many years and has always come home telling me stories about her latest conquests. When she and her H got D (after he found out about one one of her A) she was constantly calling and texting my husband looking for support

Wow...I really didn't think my post would get so many responses but am certainly glad it has.

I am hoping to R and have told him that many times. He has said he doesn't know what he wants. I have asked him multiple times to let me move back home, since I don't think we can fix anything if we aren't living together and really spending time together. He continues to say no.

I did speak to him about the situation and how it made me feel and after getting defensive he admitted that it does "look sketchy".

He has worked with this woman for many years and has always come home telling me stories about her latest conquests. When she and her H got D (after he found out about one one of her A) she was constantly calling and texting my husband looking for support

Nofool4u I would like to know how does her having an A means that she has lost the right to have a voice when things he's doing bother or raise red flags? So she no longer has a leg to stand on for inappropriate behavior because she cheated? Cheating doesn't make someone immune to the knowledge that certain behavior is wrong, waywards know cheating is wrong and a remorseful wayward in R knows not only the damage a RA will have on their psyche but also the damage a RA will have on the psyche, integrity and self respect a BS has. From what I can read they are separated and he is fence sitting. He has not told her he wants to R and he has not told her he doesn't. IMO he's keeping her with a little hope alive by not saying no until he can find a replacement. If he wants to date which is what he's doing then he needs to file divorce and make it clear they are over. He has not done so, I think the common term for this is cake eating. And he's sure getting a mouthful.

Alyssa, I think you know now why he doesn't want you to come home. He's having fun "playing." Wtf-ever.

To those who seem to think the tit-for-tat mentality is cool for cats, it is wayward thinking at it's finest. Welcome to the Dark Side.

Nah, it's not fucking "normal." My BH didn't do this. Neither did many others. It's certainly not the path to R. It's an emotionally immature coping strategy.

It sounds like he has already crossed the line with his relationship with this OW. Sharing relationship details her to him or vice versa, is not ok. Why would a "healthy" BH want to hang out with a known WW (not his wife)?

Alyssa, don't let the shame of your A cloud your judgement. Do you own part of the house? Can he legally keep you out? Look into your rights, with a lawyer, before you are blindsided.

I would like to point out that I totally get this perspective of the BH. I don't necessarily agree with it but let's look at it from his point of view for a second.

Dday is in December. They separate. Wayward does not break off communication with AP. Says she wants to Reconcile, but continues to lie about NC (If I am wrong..please let me know). Or Wayward says I want to reconcile, but I am still not going NC with AP. Either way...either way...devastating.

Nearly 6 months after DDAY...Wayward FINALLY says O.k. I am really going to try to go NC this time. (per OP's other threads). Well, YAY! There was only half a year of continued contact. Meanwhile, wayward is saying she wants to reconcile, but won't break off contact with AP. Does the BS have the truth? Does he have a timeline? If he did get the truth, was the wayward honest about her continued contact?

Just saying, after 6 months of being separated and my wayward not going NC...I would be done and wouldn't commit to reconcilation.

(If I am wrong on any of these dates, PLEASE feel free to let me know, I am going off OP's previous posts)

So according to OP's posts...she has been officially been NC for one month. So I guess the BS should be jumping through hoops to win her back right? Should he be dating...no, but he hasn't committed to reconcilation, his wayward kept contact with AP and still see's AP on a nearly daily basis. But he shouldn't be dating? He's moving on with his life, not sitting around hoping that his wayward wife will finally go NC with AP. And if a BS were posting in the General forum that his wife refused to go NC with the AP for 5 or 6 months after DDAY...many people in here would be saying Divorce and Move On. He has done the move on part, just not the divorce.

Yes, OP should check her legal rights. She should file for D. For some reason the BS hasn't done it yet. But he won't say he wants to reconcile. So She should get what she is entitled to.

[This message edited by wonderboy at 9:47 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]

So I guess the BS should be jumping through hoops to win her back right

Nope. Not even close. However, you're stating he's moving on with his life. Not really. He said he didn't want a divorce at this time. So, guess she should just stay out of her home and let the parade begin?

Look, no one is saying they don't get his pain from her fucked up choices. No one. It just doesn't excuse his. If he's done then file. Dating, bringing women over, going to see women bringing the kids along are not real great choices.

I am not saying that these are good choices for him to make.

Earlier in the thread I said this:

I am not saying that this is right. I am also not saying it's too late to repair the marriage, but it is both your decisions. IMO you need to figure out whether he wants to try R or not. If he wants to try R, then this shit has to stop. If he doesn't, then start the divorce proceedings.

Sure I have a skewed viewed subjectively as a BS, but in my view, given the 5 to 6 months of continual contact after DDAY, I believe that I would just be "done." No, he hasn't committed to being "done", but his actions are certainly showing otherwise. IMO he has been done with the marriage for a while, now he's just trying to hurt the OP.

Nope, I am not there, don't have a clue what he is actually thinking...or even doing...but from the facts and statements that I have seen from OP, I totally get this response.

Is it helpful for R...hell no. Is it appropriate in a marriage...hell no. But, to me, it doesn't look like he considers himself married anymore. Should he man up and get a divorce if it's over..yup. But, why should he file? He has a free house, no lawyer fees.

My advice to OP is to go to a lawyer, figure it out, either have him shit or get off the pot. But get what she is entitled to and move on.

IMO he's just punishing her and has no real intention of R. And I get that too.

[This message edited by wonderboy at 10:28 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]

I have not done an actual timeline but have given him all the details and information he has asked for and wanted to know.

As for the continued contact with AP he didn't know about that until recently. And for the record, the only reason I still see AP on a regular basis is because I see him at work.

Alyssa, this bothers me:

He has worked with this woman for many years and has always come home telling me stories about her latest conquests. When she and her H got D (after he found out about one one of her A) she was constantly calling and texting my husband looking for support

How long has he had a completely inappropriate relationship with this woman? Is it possible he was her OM?

She has worked with him for 3-4 years....at one point I was a bit suspicious but he said they were just friends.

I don't know if this means anything but just thought of it....my husband is an EMT and works many many crazy hours...lots of overnights and 24 hours shifts....I know for a fact that this friend of his was at one point having an A with another coworker of theirs....also married. My husband has told me many times how lots of people in his field have A's and that is why so many people in EMS or related jobs end up D.

Until now I never thought she was his OM....

[This message edited by Alyssamd24 at 5:22 AM, June 14th (Friday)]

nofool...

Please note that none of the WS's in here are your WS, your projection isn't necessary. Please read the forum description and post accordingly. If there are any questions, pm a member of staff. Thank you.

I don't want to belabor tihs point but this:

but have given him all the details and information he has asked for and wanted to know.

Doesn't mesh with this:

As for the continued contact with AP he didn't know about that until recently.

If I am reading this right..you gave him all the information that you wanted him to know. You can't piecemeal out info, it's callled TT and it's utterly devastating.

I am not saying this to be harsh. But you were asking him for reconcilation while still lying to him. If you want any shot at R, then you can't just tell him what you want him to know, you have to tell him the truth.

Lay your cards on the table, IMO your chances for R are fading quickly. Don't use this forum to make yourself into a victim, you aren't. But you both need to be honest about your relationship.

[This message edited by wonderboy at 9:25 AM, June 14th (Friday)]

Wow. You need to be a bit thick skinned BS to post here.

I'll try not to say what's right, wrong or normal, but just tell you a bit about my experiences post D-day.

I had been with my wife for 27 years. Never strayed, but once in a while thought about how it would be to have sex with other women. It was a close call once, but I never followed through because I loved my wife, and I didn't want to lose what I had with her - especially after we had kids together. After the close call 20 years ago, I never let any woman come too close to me, because I didn’t want my loyalty to get tested again.

Two years ago, I discovered her 9 months PA, and it was the most indescribable experience and pain I have ever had in my life. Emotions exploded in my head the following weeks and months. At the same time my wife tried to tell me that she only wanted to be with me, that she loved me, that what we had was something very special etc. Do you think that I believed her? Not a chance. I felt worthless, useless, used, tricked, double crossed, unattractive, abandoned and a whole bunch of other feelings. It was absolutely horrible. Self-esteem and self-worth was completely destroyed.

I did what other BS above described – I worked very hard on me, getting in better shape, lost 40 lbs, changed appearance – mostly to win her back, but after a while it also felt good when other people noticed the changes and complimented me. You may call it wayward thinking or not, but I needed that very badly at the time – not before, not today, but a few months after D-day, I did.

My wife even tried to convince me, that it’s perfectly normal to love more people to justify herself and prove to me that she never stopped loving me during the affair. She gave me a free pass to try for myself, because “she wanted me to experience these confusing feelings while still loving your spouse”.

She also wanted to feel what it was like to know that I was dating others, would she feel jealous or would she not care? – it would be a way to decide if we had a future together, she said, while considering open marriage, so she could continue seeing her AP.

So I started dating (makes me a madhatter?), I thought that since my wife had changed the rules, I had to learn to play by the new rule set. What I found out was that I had no problem at all finding other women who wanted to date me, also a lot who told me to call when I was single again.

From that day, my wife has never mentioned anything about an open marriage.

I know from what I have read above that you’ll flame me, and go ahead, have your shot, but I’m actually happy that I did it, and I’ll tell you why. It rebuild my confidence and sense of worth. And my wife suddenly became aware of the fact that she might lose me, something she never thought about – she took me for granted before and during her affair. She’s aware of that fact today and it has been an important factor in her decision to change.

I don’t regret it.

My story may not apply to OP, but I could see myself in your BS' beaviour, flip-flopping between staying, leaving, redefining rules etc.

cpacan...

I know from what I have read above that you’ll flame me, and go ahead, have your shot, but I’m actually happy that I did it,

We do not encourage flaming and attacking, please do not invite a fight.

Thank you.