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Absolutely everything Jazz said!

t

holy shit. I'm so sorry.

I'm sorry that you are back to those feelings again. I believe my BS would leave me in a heart beat if there was any contact on my part. I hope you can find a way to make yourself happy and better. And I hope your WS can get the help she needs to try and save your relationship. Best of luck.

Thisisnoteasy: my sincerest sympathy goes out to you. I hope you are able to get through this and can enjoy your trip a little bit.

My spouse knows, clearly, that any contact. Any. A minute. A call. A text. Anything I ever find out, results in immediate divorce.

I am working under the same premise with my wonderful BS. Except my NC involves going online for porn, sex chats, any flirting with women, and any inappropriate conversation. She has made this perfectly clear and we are even working on a post nuptial agreement to protect her financially if I ever wavered.

Here's a question for you: what kind of work did your WW do for herself after the A? Has she continued to work on herself? I know you thought you guys were in R, but what actions did she do to prove she was still working on it? As others have mentioned, I would suggest spyware and key loggers on all devices. I have given my wife total transparency with all electronic devices. Even gave her all access to my work computer so she could see that if she wanted. Make sure you have that transparency moving forward if you choose to continue. Also, is she on SI? I have found this site a great resource to help me address my issues as a fWH.

I am also so very, very sorry! However, I disagree with the advice about not speaking with the OM. I would absolutely take that phone call (if he calls). At this point, no matter what you decide to do, I believe you really have nothing to lose by speaking with the OM and possibly have a lot to gain if he coughs up information. That information could be extremely helpful to you no matter what you do. It's an opportunity you may never have again.

Again, I am so sorry.

My heart goes out to you Thisainteasy. ((((Hugs)))

Please protect your heart.

I also agree with making that call. I would tape it though so the OM can't use it against you. He might just turn around and think up some nasty crap to say to your wife that might make her move further down this path.

Protect yourself, tell your wife you texted him and you are going to speak to him. That way he can't get the upper edge on you and she knows what you are going to do. Complete honesty is a 2 way street. If you expect it of your W you need to expect it of yourself as well.

T

The support on here is amazing.

Well - it got a little worse, because the told me that one of the texts she sent him a said she wanted to see him. (he lives 300 miles away). She told me she didn't really want to, but it was just fishing for more texts back and forth for some kind of attention thing. A lot of talking between us has helped a bit. She was never this remorseful and guilty when the affair first happened. She is telling me "I don't know why this happened, I was happy with you - everything was almost perfect in our marriage".

She has been going through a rough time with her job. Long story short, last year she was fired from her labor and delivery nursing position due to some weird crap that went down. She had been doing in for 20 years, and she could not find another job in that area, and was forced to take a pretty difficult job as a Hospice nurse. She became depressed, telling me how her identity had been taken from her. Honestly, she was so passionate about her work that I admired the hell out of her (and told her so). She started drinking quite a bit to cope (functional alcoholic). Also - before she took that position she took a 13 week contract about 100 miles from home, so she had to stay in a hotel. She admitted last night that she got drunk and texted him. All of this time she had been praising me for helping her get through her depression. Obviously she wasn't getting the help she needed. As a man who struggled with some porn issues about 15 years ago, I can understand the feeling of being depressed and doing things you know are wrong, but feel like F*k it, my life sucks anyway, might as well get some instant gratification. (I should have been a psycholigist).

In an earlier post in this thread I mentioned her Dad fondled her as a small child and mom left town and pretty much abandoned her emotionally (deaf parents, by the way). Her new stepdad was a violent alcoholic who broke her moms collarbone one night right in front of her when she was about 14. She NEVER received any Independent counseling for any of this. We've been a couple since we were 19, and when she told me all of this I urged her to see someone, but got "I can just bury it and don't care".

Yeah - not smart. I know this sounds like I am defending her actions. I AM NOT. I just love her and want this to work out. I've never seen her so emotionally raw than I have the last couple days.

I don't think I mentioned that when the affair first happened two years ago, we did not seek any counseling. MC or IC. We've been happy and felt like we conquered the world. It's been like a long 2nd honeymoon for the most part. Well - tommorow at 11am we go to a MC. Thanks again everyone!!

[This message edited by thisisnoteasy at 10:07 AM, September 6th (Friday)]

THIS.......she also needs IC immediately. The root of her problems lie in her past. You already know a lot of shit went down in her past. She needs to deal with that now...you need to help her. Then MC will help.

T

There are always going to be stressors in peoples lives. Like nicotine addicts who quit smoking, there is always an excuse to start again. Your WW should be talking to YOU when she wants to vent about work or whatever.

No matter how messed up a person's past was, and I am not saying she doesn't have problems, it's always a choice to betray the one you love, not a forgone conclusion when times get tough.

Sometimes when my H reads the books I ask him to, I worry he is finding excuses for his behavior because he read in a book that he always felt closer to women, was the first one in has age group to have a girlfriend, was thinking sexual thoughts before other boys,even though nothing happened to him as a child as you might expect, and this might be a cause for affairs. I listen, but I always remind him none of this is an excuse, and he has to own his poor choices.

[This message edited by PamJ at 1:11 PM, September 6th (Friday)]

I suggest not going full tilt into MC until she spends some time in IC. She has shit to deal with and it has nothing to do with your marriage.

I know you love her, but I would probably 180 and make sure you are ok without her. We all love someone who treated us terribly. Love is no reason to stay - their remorse and growth can be.

What rebreather said. I don't think that MC can do that much until she gets some IC help.

I was not willing in my sitch to do MC until he had done some IC. And left it again when I realized he broke NC and hadn't really done enough work in IC.

Take care of you.

Been a while since I have posted, but I think I need to "just because". The Fall and Winter were really bad because my 15yr old son got very sick and was hospitalized for weeks. (He's doing great now!) Well, that situation really put all of the latest developments that I described on this thread on the back burner. Didn't seem very important when your kid is suffering so badly.

So, now that family life is "normal"(haha) again - of course the pain and frustration has seeped back in. We started back up with a new MC and hopefully that will help, but I am worried about my state of mind.

2 years of "R", the fact that she allowed herself to text back and forth for 2 weeks (including statements like "don't text on weekends" -- in other words planning future conversations... I really wonder if it EVER would have stopped had I not found out -- and thats the problem. 2 1/2 yrs ago when this happened, she came to me. So when she says "I wish you could move past it, because I have -- I NEVER think about him or have feelings for him" it sounds like what I heard in our supposed "R" time. 2+ yrs later seemed like a long time to get out of the 'fog'.

So, can I stay married to her and be mostly happy - probably I can, because I know she loves me. But I am worried that I will always believe she has a 'longing' in the back of her mind for the OM. Guess it's one of those 'get over it or dont' situations. yay...

Hey TINE

Ok, so for now you have decided to stay.

Can I ask, Is she now in IC?

You mentioned previously the two of you "fixed the marriage" and here you are again.

You don't need a MC right now. SHE needs an IC and I would suggest you do as well. MC's help heal a marriage. You cannot have a healed, healthy marriage with broken people driving it.

I would make a condition to R her seeing the IC. She needs to deal with her abuse as a child, the abandonment issues and why she needs the outside validation.

She needs to learn to love herself and know she is enough. Until she does she will not be a safe partner for anyone. You can go to MC and be as sweet and loving as any married couple, but you cannot fix her broken. It's deep and she needs to solve the battles she has inside her.

She probably doesn't understand why she cheats, she isn't lying, IC will help her find and fix her whys.

I don't know what issues or baggage you brought with you into the marriage, but I can guarantee you, even those with little baggage pack quite a few after an affair and two years of false R and a new dday.

I spent a lot of time in IC , I still get help sometimes. Please see someone for you.

Once you guys have begun to heal your own issues and can start to see what lies inside you will have a better chance at saving the marriage.

Be easy on you.

I am glad your son is doing better. Nothing like an ill child to put a life on hold.

Now that things are better, the two of you can start making them wonderful. It's out there. Pack up some hope for the 2 of you and start digging.

We are here if you need us.

(((hugs)))

[This message edited by karmahappens at 3:11 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)]

Please insist, as a condition of even trying to truly R, that she see an IC. If she cannot change herself, you very well may be here again in another year, or two. (((hugs)))

Catching up here,

as Rebreather said back in Sept..

My spouse knows, clearly, that any contact. Any. A minute. A call. A text. Anything I ever find out, results in immediate divorce.

That exactly how I feel. If my WW so much as sees AP in the drive thru at McDonalds she better tell me about it before I find out.

My tolerance is ZERO. I will not do this again. I will not lose one minute of sleep over it again.

Hell, I'll divorce her happy ass twice, just in case the first didn't take.

I would insist that she attends IC. I would also insist absolutely NC and establish clear ground rules. If you don't do this now, then the rest of your marriage remain unchanged. Get yourself some IC too.

I'm so glad that your son is ok. When my daughter gets really sick (Asthma etc) I could care less what else is falling apart.

I wish you didn't have to settle. I wish that staying brought you comfort rather than a sense of "meh."

I've seen people get through false R, but the amount of hypervigilance sounds exhausting.

(((tine)))

TINE, wow. Just read this entire post - didn't realize it started before the new year.

Firstly, I am sorry. You have been through so much.

Please, PLEASE insist on IC as a MUST in order to take one more step with your wife.

What karma says here...

She needs to learn to love herself and know she is enough. Until she does she will not be a safe partner for anyone. You can go to MC and be as sweet and loving as any married couple, but you cannot fix her broken. It's deep and she needs to solve the battles she has inside her.

TINE, my H and I were in MC AND he was having the A. WTF eh?! There is no WAY our marital issues were ever going to be resolved until he started healing himself in IC (which he did immediately following D-Day).

Good luck to you. I wish you well.

LA

[This message edited by LA44 at 8:33 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)]

She sounds like a horrible person.