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I don't buy it. If your a true workaholic then you have no time for an A. Affairs take time, energy and planning. Things a workaholic simply does not have time for.

Sorry to disagree with you, stronger08. It's a whole other ball of wax. Sleeping with your co-worker happens simultaneously with giving time, energy and planning to the job. That's why so many workaholics who get into affairs become such lousy employees.

If I hadn't lived it and studied up on it, I wouldn't buy it either. It's unbelievable.

Kyrie - Guess what WH said to COW immediately after their lunch time quickie while they were still in bed? "Our team would dissapprove of this." He said he pictured his team all in the room looking at them shaking their heads. Umm, what about your wife and kids!?! No, his first thought was what the coworkers would think!

Stronger - It is so baffling and maddening. For years, it was work, work, and more work. So when you hear about an A, I was furious. I remember saying something like, "And you tell me that you are SO BUSY all the time that you can't be with your children, but you have time to f*** at lunch?" It is some sort of strange acceptable extension for them, because he felt entitled, as my WH said he "felt like he deserved to have some fun because he worked hard and life is short."

ETA: This was to an earlier post. Yep, the coworkers are aware something inappropriate is happening. Both COW and WH swore NO ONE knew anything. When WH went to talk to his leadship about moving teams, the manager didn't even need to ask who, he knew without WH saying. And this is a guy with a large team, so if he knew something was wrong, I guarantee you that many more know, especially the women on the teams. WH was shocked and was humiliated that it was THAT obvious.

[This message edited by ILINIA at 11:46 AM, January 26th (Sunday)]

I feel like chiming in again... this post just resonates so much.

In our very last convo before I decided it was hopeless and S, he had started lashing out at me a bit and trying to blameshift. At one point he yelled at me that I was the reason certain projects at work hadn't been completed.

Now, keep in mind that I had been out of the house for several months working in another state at the time. And the idea behind that was to give him the space and time he always whined that he needed to get his work done.

And right before he had said that, he tried to hurt me by saying that my insistence that we check in on Skype or the phone earlier in the evening so I could get some sleep for work "freed up" his evenings so that he could be with her.

So when he tried to blame me for his performance at work, it was completely ludicrous. Even though I was completely wounded, I laid into him and reminded him that he just let me know that he was clearly filling up his evenings with something other than the work he was supposed to be doing. So for him to try to blame me for his problems was delusional.

That shut him up.

I never really felt the kind of raging anger that I think most people hit after DDay and S/D. I'm just not the kind of person who accesses anger that easily. I try to forgive and understand and that sort of thing. But I will admit that the only karma I wanted to see hit him in any of this was for him to fail at the job. And the only "revenge" that I worked at was getting a better job than his so that he would hear about it (we're in the same field). I was aware from the beginning that he had no empathy for me and my pain wouldn't register with him. The only way for me to "get" to him was to be more successful than he is. Then he would feel regret.

So instead of angry, in the beginning I tended to think to myself that I'm "coming for him" in the sense that I'm willing to work hard and claw my way up the ladder. I did end up getting a better job than him (esp. after his demotion) in another place that is allied to where he works... so secretly I'm hoping he has heard about it or does hear about it soon.

As time goes on, I'm less concerned about his reactions to my success (if I'm able to maintain it!). It is becoming more about doing it for me, which is good. And I'm still ready to let it go if I meet someone else and decide to go the family/marriage route again. But I really do think you've hit on something very, very valid here.

ILINIA - are you married to Mr. Kyrie? Seriously - it's like reading my own stuff. My H said the same thing verbatim: felt like he deserved to have some fun because he worked hard and life is short.

It's been so hard to consider that he ever felt like he deserved adultery. Who thinks like this? His level of entitlement was out of control.

By the way: don't go see Wolf of Wall Street. Just don't.

PhantomLimb, the personality change is mind blowing and the ability to twist reality to their benefit is insane. Thanks for chiming in. It really does validate each of our experiences. I wish you great success in your job - and I know you'll do your best to keep it all in BALANCE. You were given a very accurate object lesson of what not to do.

DixieD - How far out are you from DDay?

Closing in on 3 years.

Another reason all this rings true for me is that I lived it from both sides of the fence. I was also a workaholic myself and it was a quality that attracted us both to each other. I just stopped it first, and not by choice. I know the pull, the drive and using it as an escape and a coping mechanism. I was completely out of touch with my feelings. I still struggle with them. It was hard to watch the train wreck that was my husband as it happened because I'd already been there and knew I couldn't stop him from self-destructing as much as I (co-dependently) wanted to try. And then having to detach for my own sanity. It's all fascinating stuff.

Another reason all this rings true for me is that I lived it from both sides of the fence. I was also a workaholic myself and it was a quality that attracted us both to each other. I just stopped it first, and not by choice. I know the pull, the drive and using it as an escape and a coping mechanism.

Me again!

This is true for me as well. Ever since I was a kid, being good at school and then being a workaholic became my coping mechanism. That's why I'm not surprised that I ended up kicking ass on the job market after our D. I threw myself back into work the way I always did.

But I also learned to take a step back when it started affecting my health. Had to take a leave of absence when I got too sick to keep up. That's what set my mind straight and I began to try to find a better balance.

That is also when I recommitted to my M and decided I could do the kids/family route and not just the "high powered career person" route that I was on with my X. It wasn't that I was cheating on him or not committed before, but I was acutely aware that work came first. I began to put him first. Actually, that was what made DDay extra difficult for me.

^^^ Me Too!!!!!

That is what made me mad after dday (one of so many things)....that I'd recognized the things I'd done and I was putting a bunch of effort into his life and trying to reconnect and work on our marriage THIS was the thanks I got. What a kick in the head!

PhantomLimb (and DixieD) - Totally get it. In WS eyes I couldn't keep the house clean enough, I was too slow making vacation reservations, I needed to get our kitchen remodeling going, I couldn't keep the kids under control, I was no fun, and we were just roommates. I would push back and ask what he has done for us lately? I have a full-time job too, jackass! I feel like sacrificed my job and my dreams, so he can have the career he wanted and then he goes and has an A!?! It is so insulting. It seems like some wake up and some don't. I am happy that you prioritized YOU! You do deserve more! Now that I have seen the light, I will not settle for the previously life.

Kyrie - Post A, I wrote in my journal and shared this with WS: "I married a man that thought he deserved a mistress. I married a man that thought having a mistress would make him happy." He couldn't argue because it was true. It is so hard to fathom. Side note: I will not see that movie, seems like a whole lot of entitlement going on!

Also, I realize I am totally a "threadaholic" today, don't worry I have it under control. This has been so helpful, I feel lighter and that I have some sort of home on SI, thanks all!

[This message edited by ILINIA at 3:09 PM, January 26th (Sunday)]

That is what made me mad after dday (one of so many things)....that I'd recognized the things I'd done and I was putting a bunch of effort into his life and trying to reconnect and work on our marriage THIS was the thanks I got. What a kick in the head!

I know! I remember early on realizing that, in a sense, I felt like I was "too late" after DDay. I feel like I only really, really started to appreciate him about three years into the M. Around the 7th year (when I got sick) was when I realized that he was more than just this great friend and colleague that I happened to love... he was truly someone I wanted to build an actual life with. It was sort of like I finally realized what M means.

So when he had the A and it was clear we were done, it was so, so hard for me because I felt like I had wasted my chance at happiness in a sense by taking him for granted for so long. I wanted R so badly because I wanted that chance to rebuild on a new foundation. He just wasn't in the same space.

As I S from him and then proceeded to D, I kept hoping he would "hit bottom" or realize the job wasn't what was important, miss me, something. But he doubled down on the career and the OW.

So one of the big hurdles for me has been trying to let go of this regret I have. I remember after I left, the thing I would cry about the most was not getting a chance to hold him one last time and really tell him that I loved him. And worrying that my "go-getter" attitude had contributed to him feeling unloved or unsupported or under appreciated. He certainly told me many times that he was unhappy with certain aspects of our M (most having to do with time and money) and I would kind of ignore him, tell him it would be alright, and push ahead with my agenda. On DDay, the fact that he "acquiesced" to me most of the time was one of his big justifications for what he did. I understand that I can't take that on and I'm not to blame for his A, but I'm also not blind to the fact that I could have been a better partner.

Anyway... thanks for letting me vent all of this stuff, everyone.

[This message edited by PhantomLimb at 3:15 PM, January 26th (Sunday)]

My A was a big part of work. AP was the son of a board member and good friends with our direct line manager. He knew I wanted to build my career. We had to work close on a project and that led to becoming friends and sharing more than we should have.

After our DDays he made work very hard for me. Undermining me to our line manager and preventing me from doing my job. His BS began telling lies about my ability to do my job.

I'm a very driven person and extremely passionate about my profession. I know my job was a calling, not a 9-5. OBS made sure I was fired. My heart still breaks that my actions lost me my dream job.

PhantomLimb, I can relate to what you said. I've always known I was no picnic.

It always seemed like my husband and I were never on the same page and if we were it wasn't for very long. There was a push-pull, co-dependent/counter-dependent thing going on all the time.

I'm sorry your husband didn't see the light and get onboard with you.

My husband use to take every Thursday night off but I could tell he didn't really want to be at home. He seemed unable to relax, anxious, his head was at work so I would get frustrated and just tell him if he wants to go, than he should go because I don't want to have to force my husband to spend time with me.Turns out this was a night he often spent out with the OW. This still makes me so angry. He spent his one night off with her. Not me...her!

PhantomLimb, your story brought me to tears. I am so sorry your story ended the way it did. Thank you for sharing your heart with us. I wish I could hug you (((PhantomLimb))) because I certainly feel your pain. Bless you.

I think all of us identify with that feeling that something important is just beyond our grasp. I don't know if that's how other BSs feel (when workaholism is not involved.) Our loved ones were right there and yet, they weren't. WSs talk a lot about regret, but for the BSs of workaholic As, there's a level of regret, too, I think. For me, I regret the way I responded to my H's work addiction. I regret that my H was struggling so profoundly and I didn't do anything about it.

(((Scubachick))) addicted people do some of the worst things to the people they claim to care about. I feel sorry for your H. He's missing out on so much that is good, rich, and that matters. You have every reason to feel angry. I feel angry for you.

The good news is we are all learning from these experiences. Whether in R or new relationships, hopefully we'll be more present and not make the same mistakes.

((hugs))

My ex always had poor boundaries with women but I do think his job greatly contributed to his A.

Before our second child was born he kept getting promoted. He spent every evening on his iPad doing work and just didn't make the time for his family.

The more he got promoted the more his bosses, and probably OW, kissed his ass. It was a massive ego boost for him.

Then when he had to come home to a heavily pregnant partner who was struggling with a two year old DS it was a reality that he didn't want to face.

His whole life at that time was one big fantasy with his bosses and OW giving him all of the ego kibbles that his broken self so terribly needed.

I have no idea whether he is still in contact with OW as she left her job to move to another city to live with her GF. Though she did shit her pants when I told her BGF about their A and went NC with him.

However, he is still doing the same job and is no doubt still getting his arse kissed there.

I suppose that is all he has now along with 48 hours a week wih his children.

[This message edited by dindy at 8:11 AM, January 27th (Monday)]

WS and I have been married almost 25 years. He has had, not including the military, 12 jobs in the 18 years he has been in the private sector. I always supported him with his career because he was our provider. All he did was work and if the job wasn't working out, he found a new one, except for the 2 times he was fired.

He has 2 Master's degrees, I don't even have a bachelor's degree as he "is more marketable".

I was a SAHM for years, I took care of everything at home so when he would come home from his horribly stressful job, he could just relax.

He retreated to his cave, where ever that would be at the time, the garage, the study, etc. to either answer email from work or whatever it was that he was doing. I suspected at one time he was carrying on with someone he worked with using their employee "intranet", can't prove it.

If he wasn't working or in his cave, he was golfing, I am talking 8+ hours at the golf course on Saturday's and Sunday's.

Toss some NPD and alcohol into the workaholism mix, doesn't he sound like a peach?

I wanted to reply to the post earlier but what moved me to was this:

We were talking on the phone, he was talking about work. That is all he ever talks about!

Ugh, he's an idiot, his job isn't going to take care of him when he gets old or sick.

imagoodwitch, it is tragic when I person has no identity outside of what he/she does. The person becomes flat because there is nothing else going on in his/her world. This realization is subconscious and it creates a lot of anxiety - so the person responds by giving more time and attention to their work, because that's the only thing they have that gives them any sort of sense of who they are. It's very much like a hamster on a wheel. Often the A is one of many vices used to feel something. But because the person is so one-dimensional and self absorbed by this point, they can't feel much of anything substantive. So the A becomes just another source of anxiety.

No, the job won't take care of him, but that's usually not evident to the workaholic until after he/she experiences a health or personal crisis. Even then, some never get off the wheel. Sad.

inappropriate comment

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:19 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)]