SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

TMB2011

This is a really sad situation

Yes. Thank you for the empathy, and reminding me to be a little more empathetic too. I went from pounding heart and piss and vinegar to a crying mess. Thank you for reminding me of my humility.

ETA: when I did tell her about how the Joe situation made me feel, she turned that back on me, and made e feel guilty for expressing myself. She said I was trying to control her.

It is a two way street, friend. You are trying to control her - she is trying to control you. Only her control is working.

The more I read the more I see why you've been in this place for over 2 years. She IS giving you glimmers of hope whether she really means to or not - whether she is only doing it to keep the money or not.

I'm conscious about tearing her down to boost you up. That isn't my intention. As TMB said this IS a really sad situation all around.

My intention is to try to pull you out of limbo and open your eyes. Not tear her down. There are 3 sides to every story and I'm only hearing your side. In support of her I don't know how you could possible find True Remorse amidst all of this crippling guilt let alone how you can be in any way healthier in this toxic relationship that you were in the midst of your infidelities. I'm not saying you don't have True Remorse because I can't know that from a few anonymous posts on the internet - I'm saying I can't see how this situation lends itself to real healing. In a way your words don't match your actions in kind of the opposite way I normally say that about a WS, IYKWIM?

Whether or not she is outright manipulating you or just struggling terribly no-one can dispute that this arrangement and the relationship you're having with each other is not healthy or feasible now or in the long term for either of you.

In a way your words don't match your actions in kind of the opposite way I normally say that about a WS, IYKWIM?

You lost me there-

You lost me there-

I don't quite know how to phrase it - I don't mean soften it I mean explain it.

How about: Your words are those of someone with True Remorse but a part of True Remorse is working towards healing which includes setting healthy boundaries. You are not exhibiting healthy boundaries here.

Ergo, your actions don't match your words.

It sounds counterintuitive because a WS does need to do the heavy lifting for R whether the BS is at first receptive or not.

But you're not in R and there is no chance of R. HER actions have been ambiguous here but she has said it from he get-go. The things you've been doing are advised but at a year out then definitely 2 years out things stop being heavy lifting and start being toxic.

In allowing this to continue for this long and up to and including her basically moving a guy in indicates your boundaries need to be looked at.

Ok - just got back from a 20 mile bike ride - had to clear my head.

Thanks for explaining that. I get it.

I also get that I am not enforcing healthy boundaries, and it's been my choice.

That clear head from last night is lost.

I just got off the phone with BW, and it was not pretty. between the screaming of FU, her wanting me dead, etc, I have come to realize, yet again, that I am not emotionally detached enough to speak with her.

I should have not broken NC today. My intensions were destroyed by my emotions, and it was not the right thing to do. The anger came in waves, and I lost all empathy towards her, and lost my integrity too. When it broke lose I was hurt defensive and acted from that point of view.

What exactly did you discuss with her?

it's long back story, but as i mentioned DS came to me and told me not to be mad at mom because of Joe staying there. BW told me she would talk to DS about this, so this morning I woke up and sent her a text asking if she had done this.

I felt that putting him in that position was not teaching him great boundaries…Mom tells him I hate someone and don't like him being at the house, he is at the house anyway, so DS feels like he either has to make peace or hide it. Not good in my mind.

So I text, she calls right back angry about that, saying I am creating drama, that I am making more of this than needed, etc. She then asked me what triggered all of this, and a flood just came out. I mentioned the hat, the fact that I have to see him, etc, etc, my heart was beating, my hands were shaking, etc.

She then goes into her past hurts, I bring up her affairs, it got worst then the cursing, wishing I was dead, my cursing, telling her to not treat me like I am her parent, it was not nice.

I have a text written to apologize for letting my emotions get away from me ready to send to her. should I send it?

this is what it says;

"that conversation did not go the way I wanted it to go. My emotions got the better of me and i acted/spoke out of upset, anger and fear. I want to apologize for that. I will do everything I can to not do that again. I realize that I am no where nearly emotionally detached as I need to be and that is my fault.

I just wanted to clean that up"

Is this adding drama and fuel to the fire. It's breaking NC I guess.

[This message edited by badchoice at 12:19 PM, July 14th (Monday)]

BC, I don't have advice for you on this. I know you try to fight your CoD tendencies and you are going to fail sometimes. Keep at it.

I run into this problem with my NPD father. I think to myself I can do this. I see the patterns. I think I've detached enough. I get on the phone and he can push my buttons so easily and then bam, I'm in a screaming match with him and I'm left thinking WTF just happened. I blew it.... again. Then I have to go back to NC again.

I'm not doing well with it for myself, so no advice for you. I just know it's hard.

No, I think you just need to go back to NC. She just deflected taking any responsibility. Granted, her affairs had nothing to do with what happened with your DS, but I get that you are triggering so when she asked you told her. You two cannot discuss this stuff anymore. It needs to be left alone and discussed in IC.

in my opinion, crickets would be best.

are you uncomfortable referring to her as a WW? you realize most of the behaviors you have described scream Wayward right?

I called my IC to see if we can talk on the phone. I also have an appt on friday morning already set.

5454-yes, I do. It took me a long time to even add that to my signature and profile.

I'm sorry, but your BS is using you my dear and I highly doubt Joe is just a friend. Regardless of your past, your BS doesn't get a free pass to use you for however long she wants.

gotta agree w/lieshurt on this. I'm so sorry..

How old is your son? I ask, because it's possible than rather than parroting something your wife said about Joe (that you don't like him), he is concerned about this, and

was testing the waters by phrasing it to you the way he did. He might be evaluating how you do feel about Joe.

My point? It might not be fair to attribute this to your wife until and unless you've discussed it with her.

And truly, I'm not sure that's a discussion worth having. The discussion I would have is the following: I'd inclined to say something like, "I think we got off-track yesterday. What I'm most concerned about is DS. Let's both be really mindful that we not ask him to have responsibility for anyone's feelings but his own." In the aftermath of infidelity and the midst of family dissolution, your son doesn't need to be told that Dad doesn't like Joe, and be left to figure out what to do with that information. (Does he hide that Joe is around? Does he have to feel guilty for liking Joe? Does he feel responsible for your feelings if he slips and mentions Joe? Kids really take stuff like this to heart--and it can be quite confusing and harmful.)

None of this is fair. It all hurts. EVERYONE is hurting. Every.single.one.of.you. (Well, maybe not Joe---but if he is a good friend who genuinely cares, perhaps he is, too.)

Navigating the dissolution of a marriage sucks--for everyone.

The only person whose thoughts, feelings, and actions you can control is YOU. You can't control whether Joe is around. One thing you can do is provide good guidance and model good behavior for your child, as well.

You can't control a single thing your wife does. But as a mother who loves her son, she will hopefully be receptive to discussion about protecting your son from emotional fallout.

Sorry you're going through this

[This message edited by solus sto at 2:29 PM, July 14th (Monday)]

Time for my favourite NIK-ism (first time in this forum): "They know exactly which buttons to press because they installed the fuckers!!".

You know NC is best. You knew it when you broke NC. We all fall off the wagon a few times until we've had enough. I hope you've had enough now - there's more where that came from in case you need a reminder in future. Dust yourself off and hop back on board.

Everything you try to discuss is going to be coloured by your respective hurts. This is because you are both still in the crazy dance. Whether she stops or not is beyond your control or influence - YOU can choose to stop participating in the crazy dance.

It stops when you say it stops.

In time there will be enough distance between you that a conversation like that will feel as completely inappropriate as it is.

It has been just over 2 yeas since final S for me. I simply can NOT imagine having that kind of conversation with the X. It would feel VERY weird, awkward and unnatural - because we are no longer attached. He is no longer my husband and hasn't been since long before D was final in early Jan.

She is no longer your wife. You are no longer her husband. You two cannot talk to each other like that anymore. I know it sounds weird but it is true.

You need to treat encounters with her like you would a cantankerous colleague who you are obligated to deal with. It is hard to fight by yourself. It impacts you less and less the more you detach.

As I mentioned earlier I suspect your perception of having a co-operative parenting relationship was not all that accurate. Yes - it appears to work when one party is always compliant. The minute you aren't compliant you end up with a bunch of venom and drama thrown your way.

I deal with issues with my girls - not through X. They are my focus - not him and what he is doing. I don't sweat the small stuff anymore and the drama is now rare. That wasn't the case early on.

It will take time and practice but you can do this. I know it isn't what you want but unless you guys detach you're going to keep having this drama. X and I now parallel parent and work together when we need to. Jabs are still thrown every now and then but they've lost their sting.

Once this shock wears off you'll be surprised at how much time and energy you have - pour that energy into your boys and your healing.

BC, some of your story hits close to home for me. You have received some outstanding advice already, I agree with all of it.

You will be ok. It's hard work but you will get there in the end.

Physical NC is easy, mental not so much.

I spoke to my IC yesterday and she helped me sort through my feelings. Without realizing it I had become incredibly manic over this, and she reminded me that those manic feelings are my way of trying to control something that is completely out of my control.

My IC reminded me to ask myself how I feel after these conversations, do I feel good about myself? The answer is of course no - I feel like shit - so she asked me why i keep having them. I also realize that BW feels like shit after these calls too, but we keep putting ourselves through it.

I have not felt that manic in over a year when I was crazy about the S and cyber stalking BW. Those feelings are really bad and put me in a horrible place mentally and physically.

I was able to go out to dinner with some friends last night and meet some really interesting people. Function, have conversations, enjoy myself, but as soon as I got in my car all I could think of was BW.

I don't need to contact BW until wednesday at kid exchange, when i will have to pick up some of there stuff that goes back and forth. I will work on mental NC today.

Thanks

So you feel need to control/out of control, and that you need to punish yourself.

At some point you will feel like you have made amends, and at that point you can stop punishing yourself. But not until that day. when you can hold your head up and say, "I did everything I could to make it right." "I did everything I could to help her" "It is not my fault if she will not accept it, but I understand why she will not because I destroyed her" "I still love her, but I can let her go" and then you can hold your head up again and take control of your life.

So make your amends, pay your penance, and then be good to yourself.