SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Um...I don't get your point. Feeling worthless is a problem for many people. If they solve that problem, isn't it a win for themselves and the people they deal with?

And if someone cheats because of low self-esteem (I think that's the root cause of virtually all cheating), I submit that self-love is the antidote. The fact that some people who hate themselves don't cheat, doesn't change the fact that some people do cheat because of it.

Certainly acknowledging and taking responsibility for their actions (and at least some of the consequences) is part of WSes' healing. It's crucial to it. And certainly some WSes declare victory before doing any significant work, but that doesn't change the fact that self-love - seeing every human being, even themselves, as loving, lovable, and capable - is healing.

I know healing for a WS sounds like a reward for cheating, unless you think cheating is an awful activity. Too many people think of cheating as exciting and pleasant, though, and it follows that they think healing is also more pleasant than a walk in the park.

I don't know about many WSes, but the ones I know found both their lives and their healing to be journeys through hell. You doubt that? Start a thread in General asking how many BSes wish they were WSes. The majority of us prefer being BSes, and the difficulty in healing and living with oneself as a WS make most BSes choose the BS role, if they have to choose one or the other.

I strongly recommend reading James' and Jongeward's Born to Win to everybody who reads this.

Many WS, even in R'ed marriages, never make that journey. There is rugsweeping aplenty in many Rs.

Well, yeah, I suspect that a lot of Ms stay together through rugsweeping, but how do you know? Really, into how many Ms do you have clear insight?

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:55 PM, December 10th (Monday)]

Striver- for me, it wasn’t self esteem self love alone. I think there has to be some sort of combonation going on. For me the self esteem and needing the ego kibbles were interrelated. I needed them because I was at a point I coined the deal with propping myself up any other way. And the AP? Super insecure in some ways. I could see it and recognize it.

But just like my answer to William about validation, in a vaccumn that alone would not have been enough. To me it was a handful of things but the root of how I coped had come from my lack of confidence. Yes I would agree that waywards come in and are by nature overly optimistic at times but it’s because we over value happiness. We don’t cope well with the uncomfortable stuff.

Hikingout,

Thank you for your response.

I do resist the self-esteem angle for a couple of reasons. I remember cheating on a test back in grade school. Fortunately, I was not a very good cheat and was caught. Didn't do it again. But I could relate to you in the motivations. I was very smart, expected to do well, wasn't prepared for the material on this test and oh no, I'm not getting the feel goods from being smart right now.

In the wider world of course this is crap. I was just thinking of myself instead of the other students who were not as talented but not cheating. They were invisible to me. So I think cheating does require self-involvement, temporary or permanent narcissism, where identifying with the wider world is not done.

I do think that pretty much anyone can have self esteem, and that does not tell us much about whether someone will cheat. I guess personally I find it baffling that someone with a partner would use an affair to boost self esteem. I just don't get it. Perhaps I idealize my relationships, so when I am in one, I want to be at my best, that is where my focus is. Doing all the work to add an affair on top of that doesn't seem worth it at all. Different personality types more than self esteem I think.

Also when waywards call themselves people pleasers. How can you be a people pleaser when you're willing to hurt your partner so badly?

I don't think it was a self esteem issue with my ex. If it is, she hides it under other stuff. More unearned vindictiveness and rage. She likes to throw people under the bus.

I do relate to waywards not being able to deal with the tough stuff, I found that to be true.

I don't know about many WSes, but the ones I know found both their lives and their healing to be journeys through hell. You doubt that? Start a thread in General asking how many BSes wish they were WSes. The majority of us prefer being BSes, and the difficulty in healing and living with oneself as a WS make most BSes choose the BS role, if they have to choose one or the other.

I don't wish I was a WS. I wish I wasn't a BS. I am worse for the experience, there is no doubt of that.

The WS also has the choice to be the WS, where the BS does not. I can choose or not choose to be a WS, BS is thrust upon me by partner quality, which can be difficult to tell in the short to medium run.

The affair is damaging. Definitely damages the BS. In my particular case, WS feels some guilt. About as much as a mob boss does for killing an innocent bystander doing a hit. She does not appear damaged. She is remarried to AP. I am not remarried.

At the time, I thought marriage a good thing. Now very unsure. How does that help me? My fidelity means nothing now, marriage is over. Finances mediocre, 100% due to ex. Three kids, all still pretty young.

Whether my ex ever "gets it" or not, who cares. I want to have a good life. It's tough and I may never get what I deserve, what many other friends have. No comfort that I am "a good stable guy that many women (supposedly) would love to have" when those qualities were already exploited by the ex. No more walking wallet, the coffers are bare.

This is the Reconciliation board, but the question was thrown out about Waywards, and I have plenty of experience with that.

People pleasing and conflict avoidance go hand and hand.

So for me the people pleasing contributed in two ways.

1. I over did for my husband and family without boundaries to protect who I was and a person and keeping up with some of my needs too. This was driven by my feelings of inadequacy And needing to earn love rather than just being loved for me.

2. When it got to be too much instead of scaling back, renegotiating, I escaped with an affair instead of really facing things. This was at a point where my husband needed me to help him pretty much full time with his business, I ran a full time business during the day, and still keep up with all the house related stuff- bills, cleaning, laundry, shopping, etc. With the kids gone we both thought there would be more time for me to do these things. We were wrong. While I tried to discuss it a few times I didn’t try hard enough, I just got frustrated. I should have put my foot down. I began holding it against him instead of seeing my part in it.

So in essence, the conflict avoidance and people pleasing means you don’t have good boundaries. When mixed with everything else, a wayward will just escape. I never know whether to say I was cake eating or having an exit affair. There are elements of both, I was very unhappy. I could have solved it other ways but didn’t want the discomfort (ha how stupid is that, like the affair made everything more comfortable) and I wanted to good feelings instead.

When it was all said and done I learned I was always just loved for me, I was just too stupid to understand.

And by the way some would tell you a narcissist had the most fragile ego of all.