SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Mancunian, then divorce and go find it. If vows mean nothing to you, then why are you so hurt and angry? See, the thing is that men and women both hurt from betrayal. I read your words and hurt for you. Was what happened to you right? Of course not. You had expectations of your marriage and vows. You can certainly choose to cheat and that choice is one you must live with. It WILL change you and you will betray yourself and your own integrity. Again, your choice to make.

Lord knows all of us have railed against the injustice of all of this. There is NO JUSTICE, and we certainly wish we could find it. What I know to be true is that my going out to have hot sex with another guy may feel good in the moment but I'd feel like an asshole person and hate myself for it. Do you deserve that from your wife? Of course you do. If you are not connecting or fixing your marriage, then please choose to leave her--choose to save yourself.

Just like Otto and Fenderguy and 99lawdog99 I cannot go the divorce route unless I want to lose it all that I have worked for 28 years, even the adoration of my children who will certainly resent me for incapacitating their family stability (I know their mother risked that with her secret life and passion). In their mind, I should have facilitated their stable upbringing, not blow apart the whole thing in search of my own happiness.

But unlike Fenderguy, Otto or 99lawdog99, I will not sit idly by and be a martyr. I deserve all of those that OM got and more. I am looking for another job that wont get me tied up for 12 working hours a day. I am making full proof (if the secret can hold on for 15 years 7 months its pretty full proof) plans on how to make it discreet. I am conditioning myself to act normal and trustworthy in presence of my WW so that my extra marital affairs doesn't put me in a state that I can't get out of which leads me to my WW noticing my change and becoming suspicious to dig. Yes by God, I can do this if my WW could have!!

And in light of what I said in the last paragraph of my last post, that how having extramarital sex is "betraying myself" and how does that matter in the grand scheme of things in which I will be dead in another 40 years (hopefully will live another 40 year) and within a week of my death no one will be affected by the fact that I am not existing anymore? What is the TANGIBLE BENEFIT of not having the passion that I crave but is not provided by WW?

" within a week of my death no one will be affected by the fact that I am not existing anymore"

I'd rethink this. your kids will.

[This message edited by sewardak at 1:44 PM, March 20th (Tuesday)]

This is how we know this. Did your WW's infidelity help your marriage? Did it make your WW a better/healthier person? I would assume both answers would be a resounding "no!".

Every WS has their "reasons" for cheating. Are any of their reasons valid or are they just excuses and justifications for what they want to do? I will assume you will say they weren't valid reasons, Mancunianforlife. Now you feel you have "reasons" to break your vows, to cheat, to fuck outside the marriage. How are your "reasons" anymore valid than your WW's "reasons" were? As far as breaking vows you took vows and your wife took vows. Nowhere in those vows did either of you say that you would keep your vows unless the other spouse fucked someone else, did you? So, your vows are still valid regardless if your WW broke hers. You can't blame your WW for you breaking your vows, that is all on you. If vows are meaningless than you lied at your wedding.

I am not trying to change anyone's opinion or conform to mine like you and other are trying to do with me. I know better than that. Thats why I just said to Otto if he wants to live his life with the "chest beating" morality and depriving himself, thats his prerogative.

I mean if me breaking my back at a demanding job for all my married life and then coming home and participating in household and child-rearing no holds barred was not enough for my wife to not cheat on me (the minimum), then I am not vain or presumptuous enough to think that a few words typed by me would change the way people sitting across computer screens view things. My original question was how others betrayed long term but still not getting the exciting sex life after being deprived deal with things. Instead I got some gassy answers like "I won't go outside marriage because I have my promises" or "you lied at your wedding if you will go outside your marriage after being betrayed". Not exactly answers my question as to how to get the thing that I want. I mean whats the point? I shouldn't experience passion if my wife is not willing to give me?

I'd rethink this. your kids will.

Not they won't be. They will have their own family, job, social life and all the other issues to even think about me. Your children will not be affected too, as hard as you may try to deny it, its the truth.

I know this because my father died 3 years back. I look at his photo and miss him sometimes. But when I remember back, my life didn't stop in its tracks.

I was answering your question on how do we know that a "revenge affair, hall pass, whatever you call them" doesn't work. We know these things don't help a marriage.

Sure, you may find passion outside your marriage and you will be a WS. Or, you can divorce and find passion. Or, you can try to reignite the passion that you and your WW once had. Did you ever have passion for each other? Your choice. I am not trying to change your mind. I feel you have a wayward mindset and are set on doing what you want to do.

you may find passion outside your marriage and you will be a WS

Again, how is that a tangible disadvantage to me?

you can try to reignite the passion that you and your WW once had

Never sex 6 days a week in any point in our relationship. Atmost I remember it was highest 3 times during the high time of our dating for 2 or 3 months. Anyways, why should I WORK towards that? If anything, she should be smothering me in her breasts without me even asking because she has restitutions to make. No way, I am working anymore for it and degrading myself by asking her for it. By virtue of my contribution to this family and her horrific betrayal, I am entitled to this.

[This message edited by Mancunianforlife at 2:11 PM, March 20th (Tuesday)]

"as hard as you may try to deny it, its the truth."

I disagree. I think often of my grandparents, his dad, and on the way they lived their lives with integrity and how that shaped me as a person.I'm thankful that I was able to see it in action.

"depriving himself,"

you're assuming that everyone thinks like you. maybe his integrity is the most important thing in his life, and doing what you're proposing would be depriving himself.

You've come here with a carefully planned out affair and are pissed at us for not giving you the thumbs up? this is called surviving infidelity. folks in active affairs can't even post here.

[This message edited by sewardak at 2:07 PM, March 20th (Tuesday)]

Again, you have a wayward mindset and you feel it is fine to be a WS, apparently. Not fine for your WW but fine for you. I am not going to try to convince you otherwise. You get to look at yourself in the mirror, you get to know that you are man without honor and integrity, not me. *shrug*

Mancunianforlife

I hear you man, because I thought the same. There were many opportunities except I know I would get caught and I can assure you that my wife would not be so understanding and it would wind up in a divorce. Believe me that's the only thing stopping me. There is an old saying, don't do anything outside of your marriage unless it's with someone who has as much to lose as you do. And even then there is no guarantee.

I understand you, believe me. I would love to get even with my wife even if she never knew or found out. It would make me feel better inside like I am getting back at her, sort of evening things up. But at the end of the day, I'm better han that and I refuse to sink to her standards just because she screwed me over. I'm stronger and better than that. I wish you all the best but until you can let go and actually forgive her and move on it will eat you alive. I'm not saying forget what she did, nor am I saying you still have to love her or even like her , it's just the way I look at it, hating her or him just waste my time and as far asI'm concerned, They alre4asdy took up more of my life and time than they should have. I basically live my life as not caring and my wife knows that. In fact the other day we were talking and I told her that she never has to cheat on me again because if she wants out of the marriage, I'm gone, I will never try to hold on to her again, and if she cheats again I'm gone, no questions asked so there is no reason to cheat. No hate , no arguments, nothing, I'm just gone. Her response was," you don't think I know that? You think that makes me happy? I know what I did and I'm sorry." I just said no problem but I am never going through that again. She said you don't think it bothers me what I did and how I made you this way. I just shrugged my shoulders and walked away. That's the extent of us talking about it anymore and I just move on.

Be good, stay strong and never let others change what you believe in nor how you behave. Nobody is worth losing your values for.

You get to look at yourself in the mirror, you get to know that you are man without honor and integrity

Thats not a tangible disadvantage. Its doesn't better or worsen my situation from material point of view in which things work in real life. Anyways, nice talking to you. Lets agree to disagree.

I disagree. I think often of my grandparents, his dad, and on the way they lived their lives with integrity and how that shaped me as a person.I'm thankful that I was able to see it in action.

C'mon! Be real here. This is anonymous. No one going to catch you in real life. This sound like a made up answer for an interview (and I have given a fair amount of interview lately where I have sprouted bs to some questions) or a portion of a miss universe speech.

I mean the guy asked me "what can we expect from you at this company?" and I had to give a gassy answer like 28 years of experience at varied other organizations, the work ethic, the team man, the one who thinks benefit of company is your benefit too and what not other bs. In reality, my mind was shouting "you can expect as much as you pay me, no more than that. The rest is all bs"

no I really think this is real life. it's my #1 goal - to be to my grandkids as my grandmothers were to me.

Anyways, nice talking to you.

I'm sorry, can't say the same.

Before you get to dismiss me, you ignored my questions about passion for and with your wife. Why is that?

If you want to go and fuck other people whilst married your wife needs to know and needs to be able to go find passion herself. A fucked up open marriage as you both are horrible candidates for a "healthy" open marriage.

If you want to go and fuck other people whilst married your wife needs to know and needs to be able to go find passion herself

You are joking with me right? 15 yrs 7 months not enough passionate sex? What was that? What are you saying? What is this? A sisterhood - standing up for other women no matter what injustices they have done to a man? My wife deserves...I don't even know what you say. Is there a thought line going here that a woman life and happiness is worth more than a man and she deserves 100 times the things than the man?

And by the sound of your last post, while I respectfully ended the conversation, you obnoxious dismissal that "cant say the same". Sounds like you can't accept it when people do not agree with you. Disgusting

If you want to go and fuck other people whilst married your wife needs to know and needs to be able to go find passion herself

You are joking with me right? 15 yrs 7 months not enough passionate sex? What was that? What are you saying? What is this? A sisterhood - standing up for other women no matter what injustices they have done to a man? My wife deserves...I don't even know what you say. Is there a thought line going here that a woman life and happiness is worth more than a man and she deserves 100 times the things than the man?

And by the sound of your last post, while I respectfully ended the conversation, you obnoxious dismissal that "cant say the same". Sounds like you can't accept it when people do not agree with you. Disgusting

So you want me to hate on your WW for being a wayward, but I am supposed to be all nice and agreeable to you, a WH in the making? Illogical!

eta: too many "L's" and

Disgusting

What I feel is disgusting are your plans to become a Wayward. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. Furthermore, your comment ending our conversation wasn't respectful. It was dismissive and passive aggressive.

P.S. I do see now that you went back to a post and added answers to my questions. Sorry I didn't see that.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 5:36 PM, March 20th (Tuesday)]

A sisterhood - standing up for other women no matter what injustices they have done to a man?

What the actual fuck? I hope that you're not implying that BWs somehow approve or at least tolerate WW choices WRT infidelity, because this site has a wholesale disavowal of infidelity in whatever iteration it appears. Moreover, I sure as hell hope you aren't implying that men somehow deserve fidelity more than women, but let's put that aside for now.

No one on this site is - or should be - advocating for infidelity. And what you are proposing is the very opposite of getting out of infidelity. You want a divorce? Great - do it. You want an open marriage and your wife agrees? Great - do it. But to argue that you deserve sex? Why? Because you have a penis? Because you've worked hard? That latter excuse is what my husband gave to me, by the way. Whatever your reason is, what you are proposing is using someone else for purposes that have everything to do with your presumed entitlement, and nothing at all to do with the person. I'm not a martyr because I didn't have a revenge affair - I'm a human being who places a high value on my integrity and the humanity of other people I meet.

Your position appears to be an excellent illustration of how a BS can be just as unhealthy - just as wayward - as a WS.

[This message edited by BlueIris at 3:37 PM, March 20th (Tuesday)]

A tangible disadvantage? I get it. You want to know a reason why we think you shouldn’t do it that is tangible. I get what you are requesting. I’m not sure any of us can give you that answer. You are trying to make us believe (and maybe this is true— I really don’t know), that what is more important to you is getting to experience passion and passionate sex. That to you it’s what you desire and deserve. I hear you. Did you always feel this way? When you began your life with your wife, did you feel that your physical needs were more important than say your integrity? You don’t have to answer that.

For me, what is important is ending the day feeling good about my choices. Knowing I did my best to be a good human. Again- not tangible I know. What isn’t important to me is some cheap ass sex because I deserve it. I know not tangible. For me being a respectable human being regardless of who knows is important. Again not tangible- I know. I guess you are right. There are no tangible reasons to not do this. I guess you should totally go through with it because there are no tangible reasons not to. Hope it works out for you and you enjoy your life.

Mancunianforlife - YOU HAVE A PM

Are WS allows to respond?

From my perspective, intimacy has been a very tough thing to restore. It wasn't very good before my affair (my BH had some sexual dysfunction and anxiety that he chose not to deal with), so our intimate connection was lacking. I detonated a nuclear bomb by having an affair. We are nearly two years from the final D-Day, and yet, we are still on a roller-coaster in this area.

Each time we have sex, I know that BH will feel secure in our R for a certain number of days. But I know if we go beyond those certain number of days, he begins to get shaky about how we're doing, and starts making passive aggressive digs at me. I do my best but sometimes life just gets in the way.

Usually this starts with him seeming a bit off and then evolves to a full-on mess of insecurity. It literally goes from him being a little distant to me not feeling attracted to him at all because of all the neediness and insecurity after he's had a giant blow-up at me following days and days of little insults. This is usually compounded with way too much alcohol.

I don't mean for any of this to come off coldly. I empathize with BH and know WHY he feels this way to begin with. I know I caused him a deep, traumatic wound. But I feel like we just dig deeper holes sometimes. I don't know how to find passion again when he displays behavior that inspires the opposite. I've pushed past that for two years knowing I needed to, that I created his pain, that his behavior wouldn't be there without me and what I did. My H tells me how much he wants this passion with me. I want it too. When we are good, I am a very willing partner. While I know I caused unspeakable damage, there is something not quite right on his end, too.