SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ummm well, do you think it’s going to work out if he gives her what she doesn’t want?

If the object is getting what he wants/needs, I don't think he will get that even if he does figure out the secret to making himself "desirable" in the way she defines or internalizes that (i.e. what she does want), any more than a BW would could expect to get warm and fuzzy love feelings from her WH who insists that in order to give that, she needs to satisfy his sex needs.

I think that there is no suggestion he could successfully execute that would lead to what he says he needs from her. She would have to be much more clear about what behaviors she needs from him that could rouse desire in her and then he would have to decide if he can muster those behaviors, while at the same time managing her A related rejection of him .

[This message edited by DIFM at 10:32 AM, January 14th (Monday)]

Actually DIFM I am a BW and I completely understood, that I wanted a whole marriage and that sex was included in that. sometimes I wasn't all in but we worked through it. did I cry afterward for so many reasons many times? yes and sometimes still do, but we have a very active sex life. effort on both sides is a must.

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:22 PM, February 8th (Friday)]

There seems to be some confusion about how vaginas work.

First though, if she isn’t doing everything to R when she’s out of the bedroom that’s a whole other story.

It sounds like your wife has experienced painful sex in the past. It also sounds like the style of sex that you enjoy could be physically difficult for her if she’s not in the mood for it. That has absolutely nothing to do with the AP. It also doesn’t say a thing about her attraction for you.

A bit of a personal story. I’m not anywhere near menopause. I was with a partner who was into rough and prolonged sex. Sometimes I was into it and it was great. Sometimes it started out ok, but then I’d get dry and it would hurt. Sometimes he wanted it and I wasn’t in the mood, but I did it anyway. Guess what? Dry pounding hurts a lot! It hurts to pee the next day! Not only that, but my body started reacting and shutting down when it came to sex. Totally involuntary. I went from wanting it every day, to not at all. I still thought he was cute, I still enjoyed our time together, but I struggled with the sex.

Maybe your WW needs forplay to get started. Maybe she needs sex to be a bit different. Sorry. I know you’re the BS and it’s not fair. Yes she had sex with someone else and presumably didn’t have dryness issues. I haven’t had painful sex since that one partner. Our bodies are complex. Context matters. Memory matters. I’m sure the newness was exciting too (as much as that sucks).

Is there other sexual things she can do for you? You shouldn’t have to give up that part of your life and I’m not suggesting that at all. I just think it’s a lot more complex than some of the guys seem to think it is. Her submitting to sex that isn’t working for her is just going to make any physical issues worse. It’s not realistic expectation.

Ok, it took me a couple of days to get back to commenting on this post. It’s not easy to do when my H is around. I’ve been reading though and am somewhat amused at some of the comments, i.e.; “Further, menopause, is not it. My GF is 60, post meno, and horny as hell and wet as a teenager.” WTH? Let’s get real here – BluesPower is not a female therefore has no basis to state this as fact. Look, BluesPower I don’t know how long you and the current hot-blooded 60 year old GF have been together but the thing that jumped out to me was the fact that she is your GF – not your long term spouse. Unless you have been together for a long time and are still having amazing sex with no physical issues, I don’t think you can count her reaction to your physical prowess as solid evidence that menopause hasn’t slowed her down. In my opinion, it’s in long-term relationships (years and years long) where menopausal symptoms and boredom start crossing into the sexual “trouble” area.

As a female I can say unequivocally that menopause has certainly played a factor in how my body has turned on itself and is no longer the lean, mean, sex machine it used to be. I basically stated that in my original response to the OP. I did also admit that my lack of sexual response to my H was based a lot on the fact that the sex has become painful and boring. It was a relief when my physical response to the ball player was so strong – I breathed a huge sigh of relief because I recognized then that I was still very capable of having strong sexual desire. And dammit, I have to stop talking about him! LoL

Now, to respond to NTMIW again. I read your response regarding your description of “aggressive sex.” I asked if you had always been that way and was your wife previously accepting of it and did she enjoy it. You indicated you have always been that way but that your WW finds it beneath her – seemingly degrading to her since she is a wife and mother. I’m sure part of her Catholic upbringing contributes to that. Religion brings a lot of craziness with all the good. We’re often made to think sex is bad, dirty, and masturbation is a mortal sin. A lot of times that will transfer right over into marriage. How is a good Catholic girl supposed to rise above that when she finds herself married to a man that likes sex a little rougher both physically and verbally? If she enjoys it that way, then she’s a whore, right? As the good Catholic girl she CAN’T be THAT. So, it sounds like you’ve always had a bit of disconnect in the bedroom in terms of what each of you desire. I get that. I really do. My H had his own sexual hang-ups due to his religious upbringing when we first got together. While he enjoyed sex, he was mostly non-verbal. I am definitely verbal in bed with a lot of dirty talk. The first time I did that I thought the good, religious guy was going to have a stroke. It took awhile but eventually he got more into it and now sometimes I think I’m going to have to sit on his face to shut him up. But, he is not aggressive in his manner at all – no hard pounding or holding me down or anything like that. He is a tender lover, a good lover under normal circumstances. However, I’m still so angry at being cheated on I’m not sure I can ever re-kindle those feelings for him.

I went back and read the thread of your original post. You were and presumably still are upset that your WW had liked a guy’s FB post that you think she had some sort of crush on. You are right to be pissed off about that – it was completely disrespectful of you based simply on the fact that you had set boundaries and she broke them. She also apparently until recently hasn’t even remotely been interested in doing the heavy work she should be doing to at least attempt to repair what she’s broken so badly. Yeah, to Hell with that. She needs to be busting her ass to help you heal. I don’t think that means she has to degrade herself in or out of the bedroom but she should be doing everything she can within her power to try to help restore your self-esteem and to show you that you are more of a man than her AP will ever be. I’m not sure if that’s going to be possible. She seems conflict-avoidant and pissed off. You hinted at the story of your wife’s affair and from that I gathered that perhaps she had an affair with an old high school boyfriend? Also, you said there was a racial element to the story that you didn’t elaborate on but I am going to assume again that that on its own has been very damaging to you. Men are fragile creatures when it comes to having another man move into their territory (no offense meant to you – it is how God created you for some reason known only to Him). To have a man of a different race move into your territory can create an even greater anger – even disgust. You’ve got a lot of uphill battles to climb to get past all of this. If your wife isn’t busting her ass to help you, I’m not sure you’re going to be able to stay with her, even though you said in an earlier post that due to financial reasons divorce is off the table.

NTMIW, your wife’s assertion that she doesn’t enjoy oral because her clitoris isn’t as sensitive as it used to be isn’t a lie on her part really. Again, what I’m about to say is probably going to hurt you and I don’t mean it to. But, a lot of what is driving her lack of sexual desire (natural lubrication, sensitivity, etc.) is that in general she has lost her desire for you. Most likely that’s been driven by the number of years you’ve been married, the anger and frustration she holds over her view of how she has been treated in, and perhaps even out of, bed by you; boredom – both in and out of the bedroom, the demands of life, and yes, I’m sure she does have a decreased libido due to menopause. However, based on your recent sexual experience where you were tender and loving, she really responded to that. You are right – you were a different man in bed that day. She most likely wasn’t fantasizing about someone else – that isn’t what I mean. I just mean that YOU were different in how you treated her. She felt loved, respected, and cared for. It was what she needed and desired. If your normal pattern of sex is to approach her in bed, do a little kissing, go down on her, and then proceed to climb on top of her and pound into her roughly and relentlessly, all the while saying things like, “You’re my whore,” – yeah, that sounds like it’s not doing it for her. I’m not saying you don’t have a right to your own desires but apparently it’s been an issue for her based on what you said in your previous posts.

I don’t care if she screwed her AP like a jack rabbit – it was just sex. When it’s just sex and new, well Hell most anyone is going to be really into it and we end up doing things we don’t normally think we would ever do. I doubt that he was anyone that she really cared about what he thought of her. In fact, she probably wanted him to think she was like a whore and thought of herself as one because of what she was doing. But, with you….you are her husband. She doesn’t want you to think of her like that, even though ultimately you do because she had an affair. She mostly likely never wanted you to see her in the throes of wanton sex – not the good Catholic girl. It’s kind of like men who can’t have sex with their wives after they’ve given birth. Motherhood elevates them into a whole different realm and the husbands simply can’t look at them the same again; think Elvis and Priscilla – classic example.

I am NOT making excuses for your wife’s affair and I’m not making excuses for her lack of busting her ass to do anything and everything to help you heal and rebuild your marriage. Both are total bullshit and if she were standing in front of me, I’d tell her the same thing. The fact that she basically did a disappearing act on you, trying to wait you out to see if you were just going to “get over it,” is again, self-serving bullshit. You’re not just going to get over it. You can’t – not without counseling and not without her doing everything she can to help restore everything you’ve lost, and that’s been a lot. She caused more damage to you as both a husband and a human being than anyone should have to endure. You can’t fix her – only she can do that. She can help you heal and is required to if the two of you are ever going to have any kind of marriage. Having an affair of your own isn’t going to fix you, and it sure as Hell won’t help your situation. It will only take you down to her level and that’s not a place you want to be. Right now, you can look at yourself in the mirror and know that YOU are a decent human being. YOU have remained faithful to your vows and to your wife. YOU are the one with morals. Be proud of those things and recognize that, even with all that she took from you by having an affair, she couldn’t take those most important things. She can’t say the same of herself and she has to live with that. I know you are hurting, brutally and almost mortally wounded. In the end, only you can decide if you want to and can remain married to a woman that is responsible for that.

I could be full of shit in my analysis of the situation but it’s my honest opinion. I hope what I’ve written has somehow helped you. I’m so sorry for all you have gone and are going through.

At this point we're talking about simulated rape. What else could you call it when it's described thusly...

If you're wondering why women are sensitive to force or even coercion, understand that violence toward women still persists in this world.

And has absolutely fuckall to do with this situation.

To compare the OP going at it hard with his wife to rape is ridiculous and hyperbole such as that gives zero credit to your rape cause. It actually hurts your cause but sure fits in with today's climate. Calling any act of sex the male may enjoy more than the female "rape" is absurd and dishonest.

[This message edited by RubixCubed at 2:46 PM, January 15th (Tuesday)]

I doubt we would be advising her to understand how the male brain works and how sex for him may result in him showing her the things she wants to see, therefore she should have sex with him the way he needs.

Actually there have been BW who have been told to educate themselves on giving their CH better Bj's. Up their skills, so he can be satisfied. Another BW have been scolded for having a weight issue. Lose the weight if you want him to stick around.

Another great post JT 😊

Nobody is saying that he’s raping his WW. He does say that he likes to hold her down and have aggressive sex. No dom/sub, no toys. That sounds a lot like a rape kink. It’s a thing. I think other posters were trying to point out that it can be triggering to someone who has experienced assault.

There’s nothing wrong with it at all if it works for them. My point is that this type of sex really isn’t for everyone. If it’s not her thing, or if she’s experiencing symptoms on menopause, it could be downright unpleasant. Why would she be turned on and get wet for sex that might hurt or make her uncomfortable? At least that’s not how my body works.

She seemed to enjoy the touching so that’s a positive. Maybe you can integrate some type of play or narrative into your sex life and still get your needs met.

Actually there have been BW who have been told to educate themselves on giving their CH better Bj's. Up their skills, so he can be satisfied. Another BW have been scolded for having a weight issue. Lose the weight if you want him to stick around.

Whoever would give that advice to a BS does not get that the reason people cheat, and then refuse demonstrations of remorse, have nothing to do with the weight or sexual skills of their BS. If I had seen this kind of recommendation as a means for a BW to heal from their WH's betrayals and year long post A rejection, I would have dismissed it for the same reason I do here.

The sort of "advice" you reference disregards all that we know about why people cheat and even goes so far as to validate the excuses cheaters use to blame-shift..........."if only my BS was thinner and better at satisfying my BJ needs, I would not have been so unhappy enough to make me cheat. Maybe they will learn from this experience that the problem all along was their weight and their bad BJ skills".

I am confounded that a member of SI would offer this as credible and healthy advice to a BW to get their WH out of the blame-shifting cheater mindset and into a state doing what their BW needs to heal.

Earlier yesterday ChamomileTea wrote:

At this point we're talking about simulated rape. What else could you call it when it's described thusly... "I like using my hands to hold her down, and fuck...hard. And for extended periods"???

This is tantamount to a BS becoming alcoholic after betrayal and the only way the WS can prove their love is to bring them drinks. Sexual insecurity is a problem to be solved, not to be encouraged as mere sexual preference.

This is pretty incendiary and irresponsible stuff. I've let this ride to ponder if it merits a response. I've decided it does.

It's pretty alarming on multiple fronts. Firstly, given the current climate and public narrative, implying that someone is a closet rapist born of sexual insecurities when nowhere in this thread is there a hint of non-consensual behavior is unconscionable. To say that ascribing descriptions and labels of this kind weren’t meant to solicit sympathy for my Wayward Wife is disingenuous. To say you weren’t acting out on your own personal triggers by redirecting this away from the betrayed to your own emotional issues is dishonest.

Like quoting those statics was meant to inform a group that already appears pretty well-informed. No, it was meant to mobilize and reframe the general opinion of the man who dare share what he enjoys when it doesn’t dovetail with your personal definition of acceptable. What were the next but unspoken words out of your mouth going to be? “Well, I must say, here’s a case where the Betrayed Husband got what he deserved.” Nice. Way to go, ChamomileTea.

Way to turn this supposed ‘safe place’ for the betrayed into one where a man had better watch himself and thereby forego some of the truly helpful feedback I’ve received from the women that have counseled me to consider integrating the style that worked for me the other morning into my bedroom repertoire to test whether that gets me to what I’d like. A longer, but more effective path to getting her motor running that might result in the kind of sex that I, too, enjoy. A path to reconciliation, if that’s even possible.

I answered the question asked of me by some of the other very helpful female posters who were interested in a finer point on my definition aggressive sex. Tell me, was it the language I used? Because what do you imagine people actually mean when they describe their preferred style as rough? And if you are going to judge this man, are you then going to judge the women I was with before I married who enjoyed it? Who do you suppose it was that introduced me to this style? Porn in the 80’s wasn’t as readily accessible. Yeah, it was an older woman (late 30’s) that enjoyed schooling a young pup. I suppose you’ll now assert she was twisted. And how about my wife? Are you going to judge her, too, because when we first got together, she chose me, in part, because, her words, the sex was ‘vigorous’ and she could count on me being more than a ‘3 minute man.’ Again, her words. What an awful woman, yeah?

Do us all a favor and take your social agenda elsewhere. Go twitterize it. How about you leave this a place where men and women communicate honestly, and forthrightly to solve problems sans any gender battle lines drawn. Because, even with the fine female advice I’ve received, I still have to balance my lingering resentment over her betrayal with an acceptable endgame.

So this is getting NSFW, but I actually do want to explain what I think people are reacting to.

Here are definitely gender differences at play here. When someone says rough sex, I think of teasing, bondage, toys, anticipation. It’s driving each other crazy until you both can’t stand it anymore and going at it hard. It’s changing positions and trying to do things to make your partner moan. All the fun things. I love it.

I hate punching a one way ticket to pound town. That’s what it sounds like you’re describing. There’s probably way more to your sex life, but from what you shared here, I have a mental image of you holding your wife down and pounding her as hard as possible for an hour. All the while calling her a filthy whore. If she likes that then cool. It just sounds boring and a bit painful.

Maybe she used to like one thing, but as her body has changed she’s not as in to it. That’s allowed.

For myself, a large part of my negative reaction to this post was the assertion from some of the responders that she should “do what it takes” or that not being wet means that she’s not attracted to you. Getting wet involves a lot more than just attraction. Nobody should have sex that they don’t want to have.

Yes it’s not fair that she cheated and you still have to take her pleasure into consideration. Sorry, but that’s how sex works.

This is pretty incendiary and irresponsible stuff.

More "incendiary and irresponsible" than "I like using my hands to hold her down, and fuck...hard. And for extended periods"???

How's your R going? I ask because mine is going fairly well. We fuck like bunnies, do almost everything together, and other than having to be vigilant regarding complacency so we don't fall back into bad habits, we're pretty happy and lucky to still be standing after 35 years.

You posted that you wanted opinions when you opened the thread. But I'm not the first person you've responded to with hostility. If you do want advice though, get into counseling and deal with your anger and sexual insecurities head on. If you change nothing, nothing changes.

Good luck to you. I really do mean that. You're obviously suffering, which is something we all understand here.

You must feel pretty smug. Congratulations..

I think there is some "apples and oranges" talking going on here. Many of the BS's, especially betrayed men, are talking about the hypothetical injustice of a WW who is highly sexual in her A but shows diminished sexuality with her BH. True.

Chamomile is talking about the practical reality that the libido likes what it likes. Especially the female libido. Especially the female post-menopause libido. And a person seeking to build a new sex life with a woman would be well served with figuring out what her libido likes and dishing that up in abundance.

NTMIW, if what you want is extended rough sex and your WW isn't into extended rough sex, your universe of choices comes down to pushing your agenda with your WW as long as she is willing to lay there and endure it, knowing that it's probably never gonna be a participatory experience, or leaving your marriage to find another partner who digs that kind of sex, or figuring out a new sexual vocabulary with your WW that both of you dig.

At the end of the day, the BS always has the choice to walk away from the marriage and will always be fully justified in doing so by virtue of the infidelity. Even years later. In my opinion, the A gives the BH a permanent "early exit pass". If sex is really not working, use it.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 11:09 AM, January 15th (Tuesday)]

JT-

I recognize that much of the issue of lubrication and lack of libido is driven by a true lack of interest in sex with my husband. I figured that out simply because I found myself extremely turned on by watching a major league ball player during a game. I was absolutely stunned at the level of arousal I felt for months after that and I had almost no issue with lubrication. Even now, if I let my mind wander there I will become incredibly aroused. Dear God, I can't believe I even just admitted that on a public forum. But, I really want to help you so I will suffer the humiliation.

Yeah, this is well put and very relatable.

As a BH, I felt the same from the other point of view. Once the smoke cleared and the damaged assessed, sex was difficult. I'm not sure it it was as JT noted, just lack of desire for me, guilt, shame, or a combination of things, but half way through I would lose interest. It became increasingly difficult to "pop your cork" if you get my drift.

From my side, was it anger, disgust, embarrassment, envy? Was I doing right? Was I as good as her AP?

(TMI) It helped to some extent to not be face to face during sex. It was no longer making love, just sex. Faceless sex. Although lubrication was no a major issue, her attitude and participation seemed confused and uninspired. Sometimes it helped to think, she wanted to be a slut, I'll treat her like a slut. Yes, probably not the healthiest of attitudes.

My own lack of performance didn't help. Maybe I'm just getting older and out of shape, or was it all or mostly in my head? Were BP and allergy meds causing issues?

I'm pretty sure for the most of her LTA, her AP was getting a lot more of her sex than I was, and that lingers in the back of your noggin all the time.

C-Tea is a long time poster which I respect. It's a strange dynamic when you are trying to figure out what works and what doesn't, both physically and mentally. I've never tried to "reclaim" my wife. The reality is that the intimacy is largely lost for the most part. Sex is for fun and relief now. Again, probably not the healthiest of attitudes, but it has led to more varied bedroom activities. I remain faithful, but in the bedroom there will always be a sense of betrayal, that she elected to "contract out" sex for whatever reason, when she had it right here at home.

After reading NTMIW's last post, it appears that his wife initially liked him because he was more "vigorous" in bed and wasn't a quick trigger on the gun kind of guy. NTMIW, I'm not sure when your wife's preferred method of sexual activity really changed but I'm guessing after what 7 or 8 years of marriage? Perhaps earlier if you have children. Kids have a wonderful way of taking the romance and lust out of a marriage unless a couple really works at it. So does life, being married a long time, health issues, etc. It can almost become a chore for women if they are tired from whatever has drained them that day.

Again, being brutally honest, NTMIW, and I'm speaking from not only my own experience but from many conversations over the years with other long-term married females, here's my take on your situation after reading your last post:

Your marriage sounds like a classic "been married for a long time, too familiar, built-up resentment, bored with it all, and menopausal-fueled issues" kind of marriage. We see it all the time - both here and all around us when we talk to friends, etc. I'm right in the middle of one myself. So, yours is really no different than many of them, except your wife grew so bored and resentful she had an affair. That shit is TOTALLY on her!! Not you!

Time takes it's toll on a marriage, a body, and a mind. What's the old saying, "Familiarity breeds contempt?" Yeah, that's where a lot of people get to in marriage. That's why there is also the old, dreaded "7 year itch" phrase. Long about year 7, that old way of having sex is becoming boring as Hell if we haven't spiced it up and worked at it. Plus, add in jobs and kids and pretty soon who has time or energy for prolonged sexual escapades? It almost becomes a "hurry the fuck up and get off of me" experience for many women. One of my very good, very religious friends said to me and some other friends one time, "Jim is a like a damned kid. He wants it all the time. Sometimes I feel like saying, 'Just do it and pull my nightgown down when you're done.'" We all busted a gut laughing over that because we got it.

Where your marriage derailed is it appears your wife, like virtually all WSs, didn't come to you and truly discuss it with you. She didn't tell you she was bored with the same old routine. She didn't tell you that her body took longer to respond; that perhaps she was angry with you and held resentment over things and therefore just wasn't getting hot and wet for you anymore. Whatever the issue was, she simply didn't come to discuss it with you. Why?

Honestly, most men just can't handle that shit!! It's like we've taken a knife directly to their manhood and told them they're the lousiest damned lover EVER!! It's not what we're saying but it's how it's taken. I had a friend tell me that one time, her husband started kissing her during lovemaking in a much different way and she hated it. She knew better to than to tell him she hated it so, she tried saying it turned her on when he kissed her like "this" and tried to show him. He fucking got pissed; lost his hard on, jumped up out of bed, and stomped out of the room. She followed him, trying to explain she was telling him what turned her on (instead of telling him the way he was kissing her was grossing her out) and he shut her ass down. Said he wasn't in the mood anymore. Didn't have sex with her for a month. Seriously?? WTF?? But, THAT behavior is what women are often afraid of! We're afraid of butchering a man's self esteem by doing what he considers criticizing his method of lovemaking.

Truthfully, sex is the most important thing in a man's life. My therapist talked to me about that and I've read several books that confirm that theory. A man's whole damned identity is wrapped up in how he is perceived sexually, so any negative critique of it literally throws a man's ego into a tailspin. Oh Hell, we can lie all day long and tell them they are the greatest lover ever and they'll eat that shit up. They might know they aren't and secretly acknowledge it themselves, but a woman had better NEVER remotely indicate that a man is lacking in bed. Game over if she does.

So, we suffer in silence if our husbands aren't open to discussing what pleases us, trying to do what is expected of us, faking our way through it with lots of "Oh yeah! That feels good! Oh yeah, Baby - you're the best ever" shit. All the while we're mentally thinking, "Hurry the fuck up and get off of me." Or we just shut down sex completely. THIS is where marriages fall apart.

People get caught in some downward spiral. Men know when their wives are putting out simply to please them. It injures their egos and all of a sudden another woman starts looking good to them; whether she's a downgrade from their wives or not. The AP strokes their ego and gets them to feeling good about themselves sexually again - she gets their motor running. Pretty soon, the husband thinks she's the most beautiful woman in the world and will throw every damned thing away just to keep that ego stroke going.

WARNING: Below is a bit sexually graphic

Women are no different really. We're just as vulnerable. We're more emotional and if we feel emotionally fulfilled, we'll feel sexually willing and ready. If we are bored with sex with our husband and we feel like he's not meeting our needs emotionally and sexually, we're like a damned powder keg waiting to get lit off. A guy starts paying compliments to us, flirting with us, making a little move on us and BAM, the panties are wet, we can't stop thinking about him, and pretty soon we're fucking him in a way we haven't fucked since we first met our husband. Perhaps even more experimental because we are so starved for emotional and sexual completion and wrapped up in a new lover's moves that we'll do things with him we would NEVER do with our husbands. We might never entertain the thought of anal sex with our husband, but that new guy? Oh Hell we are so hot, we're begging him to do it because he's new and exciting and the high is so great we just abandon ourselves to it. And when we are caught cheating and our husbands find out just how wild and hot we were with the lover, he is destroyed because that is a direct assault on his own manhood.

I'm not saying all men and women cheat because they don't. But, we are all susceptible to cheating if the circumstances are just right. Every one of us can say we would NEVER do that and some of us wouldn't but in my opinion, everyone is susceptible. If a person is broken enough the chances are high. There is no excuse for it - NONE! Not ever! No matter what is going on in a marriage/relationship, cheating should never be an option. But, unfortunately, it's a fact of life for many people.

Cheating - emotional and/or sexual is a horrible, horrible thing to do to a person. That betrayal will cause more damage to the betrayed than anyone can ever imagine. BSs here know that pain. It is so bad it takes us into dark places in ourselves we never knew existed. It takes the very breath away from us, causing us to stagger and fall to our knees, questioning everything we've ever believed in. We consider doing things we would never consider doing otherwise. It literally destroys us and it's at the hands of the person we trusted most. How do we ever recover from that? I sure as Hell don't know the answer. 5 years out from my husband's affair and I still look around asking myself how the Hell do I move forward.

NTMIW, you have a choice to make - stay or go. Decide if your wife is truly reconciliation material. Decide if you can live with what she has done; if you can work together to recreate some semblance of a marriage that allows you to stay together happily or at least content. But, life is short and it goes by faster every day. Don't waste the rest of your life on a woman that isn't interested in trying to heal all the hurt she's caused.

Your wife owes you most everything for you even considering to stay with her. She should be doing everything within her power to help you heal. Honestly, it doesn't sound like she's willing to do that. She flirts with other men, crossing boundaries you have established, and in general has been just freezing you out. The future with her doesn't sound optimistic in my opinion.

In addition, you have to want to heal. You can stay and keep punishing her in the bedroom. You can stay angry and let it eat you alive. You can keep the status quo and eventually end up having an affair yourself where you sacrifice your self-respect and cause a whole other shit storm around you. You can stay and truly work at healing the marriage IF she is willing to do the work. Or you can get out and start your life over, perhaps eventually with someone new. But, if that becomes your choice, just realize that down the line you are going to be facing the same sort of issues of boredom, resentfulness, menopause, etc. that have most likely haunted your current marriage. However, hopefully you will take that new found knowledge about the pitfalls of complacency in a marriage and make sure you that whomever you end up with knows that is not acceptable to you in marriage.

Hey JT, frankly, after the volleys fired across my bow, I'd decided not to post anymore. Why would I continue to place myself in someone's cross-hairs? However, the time and effort you've put into responding compels me to do likewise. I've got a business to run, but I'll attend to what you've written in the early A.M. And thank you...

NTMIW, you can't let people here run you off. These are some of the best people ever when it comes to dealing with the issue of infidelity and they can help you. Sometimes though, something someone says hits a nerve - a really sensitive nerve. I think for C-Tea, the reference to holding your wife down hit one of those nerves. I don't know why but it appears it did. I think many women would see your comment about "holding your wife down" as a negative thing unless they had some backstory which you didn't initially provide but did in your response to C-Tea; i.e., your wife at some point in the past liked that. Women mostly would see holding a woman down as a show of force. I can't speak for C-Tea but it seems as though that's how they took it. The snarkiness in a later post asking about how your R was going because their's is going great was uncalled for and not helpful - to anyone. It did, in fact, come across to me as a mean thing to say. That's never OK here as far as I'm concerned and certainly not to someone new here who is hurting and looking for input.

So, continue to post and ask questions. Take what advice you can use and leave the rest (including mine because hey, I'm no expert either. In your particular case though I think I gave you some valuable input on the female mind and body that has been helpful to you).

Don't stop coming to this forum. This group can help guide you through what is one of the most terrible times of your life. You've been trying to make it through on your own and you can't. I know from experience. I've wasted a lot of time the last 5 years because I stopped going to my therapist, I stopped praying, and I obsessed over the fact that my husband put his own selfish desires and a POS OW above me. I finally have gone back to my therapist and he told me, "JT4588, you've been trying to do this all by yourself. You can't. You have to let others and God help you." I'm taking that to heart. You need to also.

If we are bored with sex with our husband and we feel like he's not meeting our needs emotionally and sexually, we're like a damned powder keg waiting to get lit off. A guy starts paying compliments to us, flirting with us, making a little move on us and BAM, the panties are wet, we can't stop thinking about him, and pretty soon we're fucking him in a way we haven't fucked since we first met our husband.

Nope.

It’s not about anyone else not meeting your “needs”.

An emotionally healthy adult person unhappy in a marriage tries to help the marriage and, if unable to, gets a divorce.

An empty, weak-minded, emotional black-hole can never have their needs met by anyone and becomes the adulterous powder keg that submits to their addiction.

Perhaps even more experimental because we are so starved for emotional and sexual completion and wrapped up in a new lover's moves that we'll do things with him we would NEVER do with our husbands.

Like a drug addict willing to do anything to obtain another hit.

It’s not anything at all about emotional or sexual “completion”.

That’s wayward horseshit.

It’s about self-loathing and trading sex for praise and compliments that fleetingly makes them feel not so empty inside.