SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Obviously one of my questions will be have you had sex with any other OM other than the two BR knows about?? Wouldn't that encompass this time period??? I figured it would

I would also include sexting, kissing, hand jobs or any sexual act of any kind and whether she's had any romantic feelings for anybody else during your entire relationship.

BR have you considered having a lengthy pre-poly Q and A session Thursday with your wife?

This is something I did weeks later when I finally let the cheetah back home (got the idea from SI and recorded it to listen back) although sadly poly is a no go where we live as the only genuinely reputable ones are hours away in London, but the jumbo Q and A was very useful to us i found out all sorts of smaller details that were glossed over some of which bugged the shit out of me (such as the primary OM called her a sickeningly cute name).. I even let her ask me some questions in a reciprocal Q and A just to see what was going on in her head.

Write down a big pile of questions and ask her one by one. Everything you can think of and more (at least a few dozen questions) including the obligatory NC stuff / GNO stuff but also stuff like 'how long was she realistically planning on cheating for?' and 'did she have her sights set on anyone else on the running circuit as number 3?' (she must have found others attractive) and 'is there anyone she has met at work she would consider affair material?'

Lob in some curve balls like 'Was she going to buy them gifts on their birthdays?' or 'Did she ever tell them a secret or something she never shared with you?' or 'What would she have done if asshole 1 showed up at your house?' or what if he blackmailed her by threatening to tell you? 'Did she have a plan incase of STDs because she must have considered it?' and 'did she read up on how to respond to being caught before you caught her and if so where?'

Also ask her Wednesday night to write down questions she thinks you should ask her and would in your place.

Might be therapeutic for her putting herself in your shoes, also she might actually come up with some good questions you haven't considered from a cheater / female perspective.

You can tell the poly examiner about your chat and hell he can then ask her 'if she was honest with you during your Q and A last night...' with the poly coming up she is likely to be extra forthcoming and this really is a unique opportunity for you to dig due to the timing and the pressure and her willingness to spill her guts (which may fade in time)

Just a thought. Seems like a few questions at the poly valuable as they may be could just be the icing on the cake.

good luck and all that, rooting for thee

[This message edited by LemonCurd at 10:28 PM, October 8th (Tuesday)]

The fact is, she brought the party pack every time she left the house once it started, even when she did not have sex with them. They used to laugh ( girlfriend and her) in e mails about my wife being “prepared” for nothing most of the time and girlfriend asking is she going to use the battery powered one or the one attached to two legs.

BeyondRage

The above illustrates just how trivial the sex act is to your wife. She put almost no effort into her affairs. She just continued going to her races.

Sometimes it included sex and sometimes it didn’t. Whichever happened didn’t matter much to her. Either way she got to gossip to her open marriage girlfriend. I bet that gossip accounted for half the fun she received.

It was like her girlfriend made your wife aware of a shady business opportunity. It required little effort on her part and provided a small profit.

Your wife calculated that there was almost no chance of getting caught so she went with it. Now she’s caught and could lose her company. She beats herself up over being stupid not the sex.

If you stay with her I would try and adopt some of her attitude. Not an open marriage. Just that sex isn’t special. That way if she cheats on you again it will not be as devastating. You can just calmly divorce her.

I would get a postnuptial agreement that would take her to the cleaners if she cheats again. That’s your best guarantee that she won’t do it again. I don’t think she’s a candidate for therapy to find out how revolting sex is outside of marriage.

[This message edited by Michigan at 1:36 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)]

LemonCurd

BR have you considered having a lengthy pre-poly Q and A session Thursday with your wife?

Thanks for the suggestion but I have gone over this so many times with her and read so many e mails over and over again I don't need to go through it all again. I made the decision that I am going to make tonight as least stressful as possible for both of us. I want her calm and collected when she takes this test if possible.

GNO stuff but also stuff like 'how long was she realistically planning on cheating for?' and 'did she have her sights set on anyone else on the running circuit as number 3?' (she must have found others attractive) and 'is there anyone she has met at work she would consider affair material?'

This is worth commenting on. Like MOST people cheating, men and women, unless the thing is a ONS and ends, the absolute answer is not totally predictable but the odds say it would not have ended if all the same conditions stayed the same. So to ask for a specific date she was going to stop would be just setting her up to tell something she had no way to know.

From everything I have gathered there was no indication she had her eyes set on #3 from the running group. That is what is amazing. I don't think any of us do not know someone at work that is attractive. Affair material??? Lets put it this way. Has she been hit on?? Undoubtedly she has. Maybe not flagrantly but i have no doubt some ass hole doctor or hospital person has shown some interest in her. She is friendly, outgoing, and not hard to look at.

What would she have done if asshole 1 showed up at your house?' or what if he blackmailed her by threatening to tell you?

Its not what she would have done. She knew what I would do. As i stated, when he made a reference to that she told him to bring a body bag. He didn't threaten to blackmail her, but my guess is by that time she had some disgust for what he was asking her to do, she probably would have dared him to if he had the balls. One thing she is not is a meek woman who is easily pushed around.

If he showed up and tried to barge into our house or threatened her physically, my guess is she might have shot him. She is an excellent shot.

BUSTER

I would also include sexting, kissing, hand jobs or any sexual act of any kind and whether she's had any romantic feelings for anybody else during your entire relationship.

Absolutely. Thank you

MICHIGAN

The above illustrates just how trivial the sex act is to your wife. She put almost no effort into her affairs. She just continued going to her races.

I would get a postnuptial agreement that would take her to the cleaners if she cheats again. That’s your best guarantee that she won’t do it again. I don’t think she’s a candidate for therapy to find out how revolting sex is outside of marriage.

I understand what you're saying. i don't totally agree. I think for sure she made sex with them trivial, most likely because she had no emotional connection. If I had to choose her attitude with them versus a "love" affair, I got the better end of a shitty choice.

Your analogy was good on the "shady business opportunity". Not sure I agree that she does not regret the sex because that is part of what could end her marriage. A smarter decision would have been to turn down the business opportunity, but she didn't, or I would not be here.

If she passes the poly, we will then sit down this week end and spend the whole week end on how we want our marriage to evolve from here and set specific expectations and develop a plan.

If she fails, i will want to obviously know why. If it is a 'grey" area, i will ask if she wants to take another test with a different examiner. If it is not a grey area or if I get what is called here TT and all sorts of confessions, obviously that changes things.

When I first posted, I was told by someone i only have the tip of the iceberg. i believe I stated that i was going to go full speed ahead right at the iceberg. I am at peace inside that I have done that.

Tomorrow i will know if I am correct.

BR, not sure I’ve commented here or not yet. So let me start by saying I’m sorry you are here. I think you are handling this pretty well, but would suggest not committing to anything this weekend. Sure, discuss what the future might look like, but don’t commit to anything just yet. From reading here, the anger phase usually kicks in about 6 months after D day. You may be ahead of the anger curve or you may find a new gear of anger after the dust continues to settle. Best to give yourself a little wiggle room in that regard.

BR, not sure I’ve commented here or not yet. So let me start by saying I’m sorry you are here. I think you are handling this pretty well, but would suggest not committing to anything this weekend. Sure, discuss what the future might look like, but don’t commit to anything just yet. From reading here, the anger phase usually kicks in about 6 months after D day. You may be ahead of the anger curve or you may find a new gear of anger after the dust continues to settle. Best to give yourself a little wiggle room in that regard.

Sanibel,

I agree. I am not committing to anything. she knows that. This ain't over tomorrow no matter what happens.

I don't know if I can get higher up on the anger curve than I have been lately, but you are probably right.

If she passes the poly, we will then sit down this week end and spend the whole week end on how we want our marriage to evolve from here and set specific expectations and develop a plan.

BR, let me make a suggestion about the above.

I think you should have her come up with a plan, on her own, for how she is going to deal with this. She needs to do some heavy lifting here by herself. I understand your urge to work on this NOW, together.

Once she has her plan, then the two of you can sit down and discuss it. You will certainly have things you want/need her to address, and you can work that out together once she has her "rough draft" plan completed.

If you have her do this on her own, it will give you some indication of how serious she is about dealing with this, and how far she is willing to go to fix whatever it is about herself that allowed her to have affairs.

If you come up with the plan (which I fear will be the case if you spend the weekend working on it together), there is a chance you will be here in six months or a year dealing with the feeling that she is only doing the bare minimum, and she doesn't do anything unless you specifically tell her to do it.

You can't micromanage this. I understand the urge to do so, but she has to want to do the work for herself for reconciliation to succeed. Step back and let her show you how serious she is about doing the work.

Good luck today BR. It’s going to be an emotional and trying day regardless the outcome . I’m praying for you guys. Your strength and resilience through this cat 5 shitstorm has been nothing short of impressive. Stay strong. My thoughts are with you today, brother.

Good luck, not much more to say !!

King Rat/ Lemon Curd

Thank you for your thoughts. Very emotional night last night and day

She passed the thing 100%. I’ll do the details tomorrow.

Now the real work begins

I appreciate all the support I have received here

She passed the thing 100%

Of course she did, very pleased for you BR

Enjoy your night, I am sure you both had quite a stressful day and you both have alot to digest and think about.

Outstanding news!!!! I have really been pulling for you. Now, with clarity, you can choose to R if you wish and truly begin the healing process. Wishing you as smooth a journey as possible. You deserve it.

Thanks for the update. That’s good news in a shitty situation.

Good luck moving forward.

I have followed most of this thread from the start. I didn't have much to add.

BR & WW - you're both obviously alpha's and out of my league. That's the reason I didn't have much to say.

It was pretty obvious from the start that she got caught up in the allure of this singles' life style and just thought it could all be "fun" and no one would ever know. That all blew up in her face and she really thought nothing bad would ever come of it.

Some of it was this MLC kind of thinking of "what did I miss".

Well, it's over. You're on the long road to recovery. In your case it's based on truth and disclosure. That, by itself, is something to build on.

Just tell her: hey, enough, ok, no more of this shit from here on, OK?

Good Luck.

A lot of your supporters think your direction is now clear and you are setting forth on the long road to R. But I think you know it is not so easy. Even if she is demonstrating herself to be prime R material, you still have to determine that YOU can do the work to accept and trust and love her back. There is not a “switch” to throw on this. You just have to puzzle it out.

You might want to read Neanderthal’s thread if you have not already. You are both good guys struggling with a lot of the same things.

Great news indeed and I'm glad she passed, try to get some rest and decompress first before the update.

Of course she did, very

I wish I was clairvoyant.

I'm actually happy for her, BR.

As I indicated previously the poly is one of the tools available to work through what is the best outcome for the BS. She passed. That gets that out of the way. She's been honest about what she's disclosed with some level of confidence. That doesn't automatically dictate that there is only one route. There is a lot more that comes into deciding whether to R or D. The choice of which way to go is still the BS's and, IMO, needs to be decided on what is best for the BS and no one else.

I try not to sway one way or the other on R or D. I do admit I'm biased. There are some who decide not to R even if the WS does everything right. The adultery was simply too much for the BS to bear. Others can seemingly R based on less. There seems to me to be too many BSs who return after some time with another "event" or two.

BeyondRage, you seem to be a decisive person with a clear image of the outcome you want and need. I think that you will evaluate everything and make your decisions. Your WW seems to me, sitting in my armchair so far away without anymore information than what I've read here, to be a good candidate for R. It is your decision and no one else's. My best wishes to you and hope for your future no matter which way you decide.

Buster

Great news indeed and I'm glad she passed, try to get some rest and decompress first before the update.

Thank you and and thanks to the others who have offered support. Decompression has started but I know the work now begins.

Rugswept

BR & WW - you're both obviously alpha's and out of my league. That's the reason I didn't have much to say.

Don't underestimate yourself. We are not out of anyones league. Unfortunately we are all together in this shitty league we found ourselves in.

Getting Over It All

You can't micromanage this. I understand the urge to do so, but she has to want to do the work for herself for reconciliation to succeed. Step back and let her show you how serious she is about doing the work.

You are right but I think she has to know my expectations clearly and we have to both have a 100% all in effort TOGETHER. I do understand your point about her doing the heavy lifting.

Odonna

A lot of your supporters think your direction is now clear and you are setting forth on the long road to R. But I think you know it is not so easy. Even if she is demonstrating herself to be prime R material, you still have to determine that YOU can do the work to accept and trust and love her back. There is not a “switch” to throw on this. You just have to puzzle it out.

You might want to read Neanderthal’s thread if you have not already. You are both good guys struggling with a lot of the same t

Thank you. I know it is not going to be easy. Every BS has to make the decision if they want to do what you say and we have to do it knowing there is no ironclad guarantee possible to the future.

I have read Neanderthals thread and other than the infidelity, I think his burden on him has been much tougher. My wifes behavior did not mirror his wifes at all. I uncovered no lies or TT. he has had to deal with a mountain of that as well as a WW deeply emotionally involved with the ass hole AP. I am hoping no matter what he chooses he comes out OK.

Steady

BeyondRage, you seem to be a decisive person with a clear image of the outcome you want and need. I think that you will evaluate everything and make your decisions. Your WW seems to me, sitting in my armchair so far away without anymore information than what I've read here, to be a good candidate for R.

This is accurate. I have never been accused of being wishy washy about much. I have decided that i am going to give it a shot, which is probably no surprise to most of those reading my thread.

Thursday night before the test did not go as planned. Before we left for dinner, my wife broke down and said that until she passed this damm test she did not deserve me taking her anywhere nice to make her feel better. All she wanted to do was lie next to me in tears. Very difficult evening.

That scene was repeated Friday night when she just said to me and i quote

"Please just give me a chance to do whatever you need for me to earn your love back". I actually was crying too at that point.

Her parents called me. I thanked them for basically staying out of it as much as possible, and I was pretty forceful in telling them that what they know goes absolutely nowhere or it will change my relationship with them forever.

I am thinking of pulling the VAR from the car. Anyone have any thoughts on that one?

The first step in asking for forgiveness is to stop lying. The first step to giving forgiveness is to allow the person to earn it. Pull the VAR.

Pull the VAR.