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So her reason for taking core values and throwing them away was what again? Boredom? The knitting comment was facetious as I'm sure you realized. There were a myriad of other choices for her make.

Why is her default position to throw you and the kids under the bus? That's something more substantial than what you have described as her reasons.

Strength brother, don't want you to come back here in 6 months when she has decided that there is another set of issues that caused this.

I'm going to agree with the rest that your proposed explanation is superficial at best. It may be a ggod place to start, and you're early in this journey... But you're both going to have to do a LOT better than that. My FWH also started out with a pretty pathetic explanation. His first therapist let him go with that. Thank goodness he switched. Now he's really starting to understand how he could have done this. Believe me, lack of fulfillment is absurd. There are so many better solutions to this problem, which we all experience in our lives, particularly women who become mothers. SHE FUCKED SOMEONE ELSE. SHE BETRAYED YOU. There have to be powerful underlying issues, unless she is really that shallow, in which case she's NPD or similar, and therefore irredeemable -- unless you're OK with a life of pain.

Have you read the threads in Ring? Especially the one "before you reconcile..."? Please think deeply about the extent of her remorse.

Thank you all, your input is greatly appreciated and valued and I will bring up these issues at our MC session next week.

I tend to write moment by moment. I don't look too far ahead and sometimes my writing may be unclear in that regard. I was excited that we made a breakthrough in our relationship. It took us from walking out the door and divorce to a chance at reconciliation.

Her lack of fulfillment to me is the root cause of her unhappiness. It is my intention to work with my wife and a counselor to get to what inside of her allowed her to cross those boundaries. I was unclear on this and I made it seem like her lack of fulfillment was the end all/be all of her problems. I know it isn't and I'm not letting it go. We will work through this and she will do so willingly and happily or I will continue to walk out the door.

I thank you all for helping me find the strength to see this through.

Her actions of leaving your children in the care of her mother most of the time (?) while she wanders around doing as she likes, speaks worlds about who she is as a person. BPD/NARC.. I don't know.

Kalli,

I addressed this in an earlier post to someone else who said the same thing. She doesn't leave the children in the care of her mother. She is a very good mother. She spends all day with the children and 99% of the time is there when they go to bed. She is their primary caregiver and she does a great job. I'll let people knock her on not being a great wife, but she is a great mother. She want's to go do something for herself after spending all day taking care of the family, I'm not a monster and I'm not going to stop her. I'm not the type of man that tries to own my wife and keep her tied up in the house and I don't ever want to be that person. Now, I know we just need to address why she is crossing lines.

TR.

Now, I know we just need to address why she is crossing lines.

"We"? Is she a project? You seem very detached and clinical. I can be too. Not when it deals with emotional real life stresses close to me.

You come across as someone that's setting up a research project on an interesting case study. She's your wife, not a puzzle to solve.

You keep talking about we. We made a breakthrough. She's completely responsible for her actions. There is no we here. You can't steer this.

Why do you feel her desire to "get out of the house" is necessary? Sure, breaks are nice. Taking care of kids can be tiring. Hell, any job can be as well. We can find ways to recharge that don't involve sitting in tea rooms.

How is not finding that activity ok equating with you being a monster and owning your wife? That's kind of an odd leap. It's like you're trying to explain away a precocious child's acting out like an over protective parent.

Holding people accountable isn't being a monster. It's not being an enabler.

[This message edited by uncertainone at 7:30 PM, August 11th (Sunday)]

She routinely went out in the evening after putting the kids to bed? Seriously? The moms I know with kids this age are usually so exhausted by the evening that you have to pry them off the couch. Trying to get people out of the house for a girl's night is more complicated than coordinating the Olympics. If a mom does have a free night, she usually wants to spend it with her DH.

Just sayin'... This is pretty darn usual.

....

"We"? Is she a project?...She's completely responsible for her actions. There is no we here. You can't steer this....Why do you feel her desire to "get out of the house" is necessary? Sure, breaks are nice. Taking care of kids can be tiring. Hell, any job can be as well. We can find ways to recharge that don't involve sitting in tea rooms.

She routinely went out in the evening after putting the kids to bed? Seriously? The moms I know with kids this age are usually so exhausted by the evening that you have to pry them off the couch. Trying to get people out of the house for a girl's night is more complicated than coordinating the Olympics. If a mom does have a free night, she usually wants to spend it with her DH.

Okay, first off. You don't know my wife, I do (yes, I get it, she cheated on me, I don't know her that well).

In regards to her energy levels and what she does, she's a f*cking energizer bunny in the summertime...she cooks, cleans, entertains the children at the park/beach/home, kisses boo-boos, spends time with me, does the shopping, and YES she still has energy enough to go out every once in a while to breathe. Sorry she's not like the people you speak of who prefer to pass out on the couch. If she can do it and wants to, I have no problem with that. I'm not enabling her to go and cheat on me. Threats are EVERYWHERE, she could meet a man at the park with the kids or at the grocery store doing the shopping, hell she could fall in love with the school principal at a PTA meeting. I don't think it's important where she is. Having healthy boundaries and being able to protect them, that's important and yes WE are working on them.

There are three entities here that require attention: me, her and the marriage. Why the f*ck would I let her swing in the breeze on her own if I can help her to heal and grow and learn. Aren't WE supposed to be a unit? Not doing so would be CRUEL, as cruel as what she did to me. I'm not clinical, I'm not a doormat (any more), I'm not an enabler and I'm not going to let this happen again. I'm going to do everything in my power to help myself, my wife and my marriage to survive this. If I can't or she's not willing to participate, I have divorce in my pocket and it's an option I'm okay with.

Direct response to blobette: You must have missed the part where I mentioned that I work nights and am not home half the week. When I am home, we spend our time together.

I'm sorry but it seems to me the majority of people who are responding to my post seem to want to attack a lifestyle that THEY would not be okay with. That THEY would find unbearable. She met OM1 through a friend and the "night life" enabled her to spend time with him. She met OM2 in the middle of the day at his place of business. One last time, THREATS ARE EVERYWHERE. Her lifestyle is not the issue here it's her boundaries and I would prefer to get this back on topic.

Thank you.

TR

Sorry she's not like the people you speak of who prefer to pass out on the couch

Um, where did you pull that from? I don't know anyone who passes out on the couch. Least of all me. My interests are quite far from couches. Try hanging from rocks.

Still don't frequent tea gardens to commune with strangers. Doubt my SO would be thrilled nor do I have any interest.

Have to tell you some of us are capable of managing that energizer bunny list AND have energy for other activities. It was her choice of activities.

You know, a very short bit ago you were chuckling at the vision of coyotes on a beach munching on her. Now she's a wounded saint needing defending.

I dont see anyone attacking your lifestyle. Hell, no one even knows what it is beyond how you've represented it to be.

Threats are NOT EVERYWHERE. They're one place and one place only. They start and stop with her. That's all anyone here is saying. She's not a fragile wounded child. She's an adult. I'd think treating her like anything else would be violating your self respect and hers.

You are incredibly defensive. Please try not to be. No one's trying to hurt you. Is your situation unique, your wife different, your marriage one of a kind? Yes. And NO. Have you ever seen someone at the store who is wearing something not at all flattering to them? It seems obvious to those looking, but the person is oblivious. Are you oblivious to what's *really* going on? No, of course not. But you are surely invested in believing the story of your M.

You wrote a much longer piece about how you and your wife met. It seemed to me an exercise in creative writing, designed more to impress your audience with how great a writer you are and how super special your relationship is/was. You are a competent storyteller. What people here are saying to you clashes with this story, makes it less astoundingly unique. Perhaps this is why you are so defensive?

I wish you and your wife the best. Of course reconciliation is possible. Outsiders looking in on your situation see certain things in bold: TWO OM; fogginess on both your parts; denial. For myself, the plan/desire to be a yoga instructor is another red flag.

Look, the commonly voiced advice to "take what you need, and leave the rest" is good. Do that. You're fighting so hard against these perceived attacks on your WW and you don't need to.

Um, where did you pull that from?

I was responding to you and blobette at once. In her quote she said that people she knew after doing that could barely be pried off the couch.

Point is, her interests and where she spends her time have nothing to do with her problem. I'm okay with what she does, sorry your SO wouldn't be and you aren't interested.

Again you are going after her lifestyle which is not the point. She met OM2 at his place of business, in the middle of the day, picking up wine for us. Should I lock her up in the house and only allow her out when I choose to go with her? Should I outlaw wine stores?

One last time, I'm sorry you aren't okay with her lifestyle. I am, move on.

If you could limit your responses to helping me re-establish healthy boundaries in our relationship I'd appreciate it.

It's sad, this forum has generated more stress for me today than my lying, cheating wife. Thanks.

TR

Wow. That was a pretty hostile response. There was actually a bit of humor in there re the "pry off the couch" comment - it really wasn't intended to be taken all that seriously. I'm not trying to impose my lifestyle on anyone, but I do question why a mother of young children NEEDS to go out at night without her husband.

My WH doesn't like being alone. Although of course there are huge variations in this, it seems typical of cheaters, who need external validation. They aren't comfortable with time alone, they need other people, partying, whatever, to drown out whatever psychic pain they're not able to face up to. I really don't know your WW at all and have no idea what her issues are, but I guarantee that she has some, and her need to frantically socialize is related to that.

Please stop being so defensive of your WW. We're really not here to attack her. But we are trying to get y ou to see her more objectively. BSs do sometimes want to rugsweep, because the implications of facing up to things are so huge. You mean, I fundamentally misunderstood my partner throughout our relationship? You mean, they really do not have my interests at heart in the way I so blithely assumed they did? I'm not saying this is true of you, but you really have to open yourself to the possibility that this woman is really not who you thought she was. This is so, so very painful. This doesn't mean she's necessarily a horrible human being or irredeemable (although that could be true). But it does mean that there is something very seriously wrong with her, which you minimize at your peril. Unless you really grapple with this, the rest is bullshit.

Please believe that I mean this kindly. I'm sorry for being so blunt.

[This message edited by Blobette at 8:29 PM, August 11th (Sunday)]

How am I wrong here, how am I in a fog.

I've stated:

I understand that my wife's own problems are the cause of her infidelity.

I've stated several times that it's not WHERE she is that's important to me, it's WHO she is right now. Who she is that lead her to be able to do the things she's done and what can be done to help her fix it.

I'm not being defensive, I'm defending my beliefs and MY core values. All I've heard is the way that I let my wife behave is wrong. Restricting her activities isn't going to solve anything.

Merry,

WTF is wrong with wanting to be a yoga instructor? Taking an interest and molding it into a career? Is there a list of post-infidelity approved occupations I should be reading up on?

And sorry, while yes, I think I'm an okay writer, I wish you had read the preface to my story. I was writing the story in a safe place to get it out of my head and to maybe help others to see that they can accept that someone they believed in that much could do the horrible things they did. I wasn't writing to impress anybody.

Uncertainone,

Where did you get that I'm treating her like a child? I'm trying to help myself and help my wife rebuild our marriage.

Also, I was never CHUCKLING at the vision of her getting munched on by coyotes. My entire quote on the matter follows:

Heard coyotes started howling from her direction while walking. Srsly.

I got back to her and said let's get you home. I mean I dislike her severely right now but not enough to let her get eaten by coyotes.

TR

Sorry, I need to walk away from this for now.

Thank you all for your help.

TR

Still defensive. I have read every one of your posts. Just as you are free to believe what you want about your wife and your situation, I am just as free to believe that your writing is inauthentic, your defense of your wife something you will deeply regret, and that your WW is looking for Mr. Goodbar. Okay?

What matters most is this: this community is here to help, even if you are too sensitive to understand that. Also, you cannot dictate what advice people give you or what kind of perspective they take on your situation. You are essentially clapping your hands over your ears and shouting LALALALA.

To repeat, you don't get to dictate the responses here. And none of the responses - none except YOURS - are hostile.

Dear TR

I have not posted on your thread, but have read all posts.

I can feel you pain on the page and can even recall a moment I experienced very like what I see coming out of your last post, in my experience here in SI.

I remember the point when my H, turned back to me, started to give me truth, beg my forgiveness. and I felt we had a chance for R.

At this point, I came unravelled with some responses and felt unsupported and attacted.

That is how I felt at the time, that in my pain SI had in that interaction become another place was not safe.

While reading and posting that day , I had ringing in my ears, felt giddy, and felt the overwhelming need to show everyone here what was lovable and worthy of my H. I felt we had both been attacked.

The thing is when I read back over the interactions - I was not being attacked. I was being challenged and asked to look at some things that may help me to build a safer future for me and my children. (with or without my M.)

Needing to reassert all the things we love and value about our spouse is very important (and understandable in agreeing to R). It is critical that this sits beside a clear view of all the behaviours and choices our spouse have made to blow up our world.

Over the course of your posts, it does seem that since the renewed hope of "R" you have clouded your view of some of her choices.

It is very natural - but it is important that at you uncloud your vision - Especially where you have shared with us your tendancy in the past to kind of give your power over to her.

I think that is why some posters are trying to put her choices and behaviour right in front of you again.

It may seem judgemental of your lifestyle - but really if you can step outside of that and reflect on your recent posts, you might see that you have communicated with us changes in your M (post affair and disclosure) that are about meeting your wife's 'needs and desires' and very little about the what she is going to do be a safe person again. To not blow up your marriage. To ensure she is actively protecting herself, you and your children from the pain of betraying her stated values.

I understand your pain, I can see your hurt. I agree with you that threats are everywhere - they are everywhere your wife is, until she works every moment of every day to live with integrity and be deliberate in choices. (Regardless of if she is ill, depressed or lonely).

You have lived to terrible pain and turmoil. Your children are living through this too.

Your vigilance now must be about making the healthiest and safest choices YOU can.

that is what people are trying to help you test.

Blessing to you and your family TR. We in SI are not in opposition to happiness and safety for you and your family - the opposite is true.

MegM

Edited for corrections

[This message edited by MegM at 8:48 PM, August 11th (Sunday)]

General reminder:

The original poster is looking for support. If you find that you cannot be helpful and supportive, please get off the thread.

MerryMeNot

,

To repeat, you don't get to dictate the responses here. And none of the responses - none except YOURS - are hostile.

Thank you.

inappropriate

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:27 AM, August 12th (Monday)]