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Here's another suggestion, though I recognize I may have found this thread 2 late:

Tell her that, if she goes on her trip, don't come back. MEAN IT. And pack her shit up while she's gone. Have the boxes neatly stacked in the garage. If she doesn't have a place 2 go, have a hotel phone number at hand. Or send her 2 her parents, if they live nearby.

Fire the therapist. Or make them go with her for the week. Seriously, some of these fuckers are so s2pid it boggles the mind. Ask them if they've ever been cheated on before and if letting their WS go on a week 2 flail away with their affair partner saved their "marriage?"

You should have called the police. You could slap her with a restraining order 2 celebrate on her week away. In fu2re, document everything and call the police if she ever gets violent again.

Seriously consider what you want 2 save here. Your marriage prior 2 d-day was never real. She is not the person you thought she was. She can't unscrew what she's screwed up.

She isn't remorseful. Even if she were, there's still a big gulf between being remorseful and ac2ally doing whatever the BS needs 2 convince them that they're sincere about recovery. She's also actively having an affair. While she is, she shouldn't also be living in your house.

Be firm. Push her off her fucking fence.

-ol' 2long

I presume you will be minding the children while she is with the OM. Have you thought about refusing to do this?

Leave yourself the day before, [go stay with a friend] and in essence prevent your wife from taking this 'vacation' because she will have to cancel in order to look after the kids. Return a few days later and see how things are. Anytime your WW talks about leaving for another rendezvous with OP, just refuse to babysit while she screws around on you.

Either that or just get tired of all this disrespect and file.

Well its the 3rd day into my wife's one week vacation/separation. I felt relieved the first couple days. But now the depression is really hitting me. Everyone, thanks for your advice. Some I followed, and some I'm sorry I just can't do. The night before the day her vacation started, she came to me to talk. She was concerned that I already contacted a attorney to start the divorce process. But I am not sure if she is just afraid to go through a contested divorce vs an uncontested one where we would use the same lawyer and try to agree on most things. The State I live in has no-fault divorce, so legally, the fact that she had and affair doesn't matter (and she knows this). If we divorce, it will be financially tough on both of us, her more so since I make twice the income as she does. We would have to sell our house. And each maintain separate households after the divorce, so definitely a downgrade in lifestyle. Maybe she has some fear about this.

The past few days, I've been thinking about two choices. I think the easier choice would be to just file for divorce. I feel like we already divorced and that I lost her when she decided to start the affair. So doing that would just be a continuation of what I've already been going through the past 6 weeks, and I feel like I'm past the worst phase already. The only downside is that I may regret not giving our marriage a chance later. Also, I still feel like our children deserve the effort to try to reconcile.

The other choice would be to try to reconcile. The risk I see here is that I feel like the odds are against reconciliation, at least with the current info I have now. So why try something that will take 2-3 years, when it may not work anyway? And why go through the emotional roller coaster ride that it is sure to be.

Of course this assumes she comes back, ends the affair, and wants to reconcile too.

But what ever she decides, I still have the choice to divorce now. This is such a hard decision to make.

[This message edited by coda87 at 12:26 AM, October 6th (Sunday)]

Coda,

Don't forget to take into consideration that many couples have reconciled after divorce.

But you are no where near that point yet, and for (2) reasons: first--the divorce process takes time, and second--she is not of reconcilable material, and hasn't been, since she left the marriage. You know where she is and what she is doing...and it sucks. It is disrespect to the Nth degree.

You have to move yourself out of this infidelity. The only thing worse than being cheated on is to continue to live that lifestyle. And as depressed as you seem right now, it will subside over time. You just have to focus on yourself, and your children.

Don't sit idle. As long as your WW is not committed to you and the marriage, work on moving away from it. These are some of the shittiest days, friend---believe me. Trying to wrap your mind around losing much of what you worked for is a killer. But it is NOT as bad as staying in this toxic situation. As you distance yourself emotionally from your WW, you will see things differently....and maybe your WW will also. But nothing will change under the current status quo.

It does get better. You probably can't see it, but it does...and will.

It might sound counterintuitive, but your best chance at recovering your marriage is 2 take a non-flexible hardline stand on her infidelity. DO NOT TOLERATE IT FOR ONE SECOND LONGER.

Your "amicable divorce" would require you both 2 work 2gether with a mediator. You can't be emotional or angry if you're going 2 use a mediator. She's having an active affair, so it would be in her own selfish interest 2 put off any decisions for as long as possible - in her mind, you accepted her affair by letting her go on a week long fuckfest with the OM. If you let her come home after that, you're affirming your acceptance of her new "lifestyle."

The sooner you can stand up for yourself, your kids, and your marriage, the sooner this painful experience can end - one way or the other.

Regardless of whether you recover your marriage or yourself after a divorce, this WILL take 2-5 years. It's just the way it is.

-ol' 2long

The key issue here is the disrespect. Your WW took a week vacation and brought along Victoria Secrets underwear; so you know she intends to have sex with the OM. You also know that she is aware that you know about her planned sexual excursion and she simply does not care. She doe not give a hang that you will lie in bed at night wondering....

This is a monumental lack of respect and as I said in a previous post she will come back with an offer to reconcile just to keep the family intact. Welcome to hell my friend, because thats what your marriage will become and she will take the affair underground.

What I am trying to get through to you is that you cannot accept this lack of respect and preserve your dignity and self-esteem. If you 'reconcile' on your wife's terms after she returns flush with excitement after her nights with the OM, you are lost, and I expect in a few years time you will post a warning on SI about "I wish I had stood my ground and divorced etc etc"

I utterly believe in reconciliation after adultery, when there is remorse and respect shown by the WS for the BS. This is not case in your relationship.

^^^^^This. X1000

How old are your children?

Although I am pro-marriage, it is important to realize that children are far more perceptive than we realize. Although they may not know what "cheating" is, they will pick up on one spouse treating the other like crap. They will pick up on you being sad and depressed. So you are not protecting them by allowing her to continue treating you like this. Your children deserve a happy father.

Even if you want to reconcile with her, you will never get your old marriage back. It has been destroyed by her actions. You can build a new one together, but only if she is completely committed. How can she be committed to the marriage if she hasn't even faced any consequences for betraying you?

Right now, your wife is 'cake-eating'. She thinks that she can run off with her f*ckbuddy for a week and return to the security of the marriage. She is the one in control here. To top it off, she has you thinking that if you do get divorced you'll settle it amicably. What is wrong with this picture?!?! She has abandoned your family for her f*ckbuddy!!

You need to wake up!!!!

Ask yourself why you would want to remain in a relationship with someone who is openly humiliating you? Start being proactive. Do you know who the other man is? Find out all you can about him - does he have a criminal record etc. Expose the affair to his wife/girlfriend. This isn't about revenge, but giving the betrayed wife information she deserves to know.

Hit the gym in your free-time and work on yourself. You deserve to be happy. Take control of your life!

Furthermore, even in a no-fault state, her behavior (leaving for a week) may still come into play. If you have evidence of her prioritizing her new man over her family, there is less chance that she will get the deal that she wants. Your lawyer should also be trying to get the best deal for you (not your wife).

If I was in your shoes, i would expose her to her family. If she calls you demanding an explanation, simply state that you are fighting for your marriage - and then hang up. DO NOT ENGAGE WITH HER. Also make arrangements so that she can sleep with her family when she gets back.

This makes it clear that you will no longer tolerate her bullsh*t, and that you are seriously contemplating a life without her.

So my wife finished her 1 week vacation today. We just met for a MC session. Basically she says she doesn't think it will work out between us and that it will be too difficult to try. I said I have the same concerns but still want to try. But she still doesn't want to. So I guess my only option is to file for divorce. This past week, I've gathered all our financial documents just in case. So I am ready. This really sucks. But in a way I feel relieved that I won't be hanging in limbo anymore and I can start to move on. I feel like I'm over the worst part (when I first found out about the affair). Either that or it's not hitting me yet emotionally. In anycase, I feel like I'm ready. Thank you all for your good advice. I might have to switch to the divorce/separation forum instead of Just Found Out.

[This message edited by coda87 at 11:30 PM, October 9th (Wednesday)]

The week long assignation with the OM finally convinced her that she needs to move on. I wish you could have found away to prevent this. Then when you stated that you would be prepared to reconcile, just after her sexual excursion with the OM, finally destroyed her respect for you. For heaven sakes, his body fluids were still inside of her.

I really don't think you understand how such passive forgiveness can be perceived as a unattractive weakness by your WW. If you had gone away for a week-long tryst with an OW do you think she would have been forgiving?

She now knows that she can fuck around until the divorce seeing if it will work out with OM, and if she wishes just snap her fingers and you'll come a running. You have to preserve your dignity and self-esteem at all costs and you can't do that by always being ready to reconcile, no matter what deep, egregious insults your wife pays you.

I can tell you if my husband went away for a week long session with a lover, he wouldn't have a marriage when he returned. Its a refection of the value I put on myself.

So I am ready. This really sucks. But in a way I feel relieved that I won't be hanging in limbo anymore and I can start to move on.

THIS is the key sentence. Congratulations. You have come a long long way!

Remember Aron Ralston; the guy that got stuck in a canyon and eventually had to cut off his arm? Earlier this year I got to hear him personally talk about this experience. He realized quite early on that he might have to cut off his arm but he wasn’t happy with that thought. So he did all he could to avoid it. He tried to move the rock pinioning him, rationed his food, his water, and drank his own urine… Name it. Everything to avoid that last, desperate act.

But… After 5 days or so he realized that no matter how he hated the idea then amputating his arm was the only option he had to survive. Once he accepted that idea he felt an inner peace like the one you describe. This peace didn’t make it hurt less or the task much easier – but he realized that with each cut he was getting closer to escaping his current situation.

I suggest you go back to my post about the three steps to save the marriage: Make the affair hard, make the marriage attractive and make leaving the marriage hard. Your WW has told you that she doesn’t see a chance. OK – listen to her. You can’t be alone in a marriage. She has pinioned your arm – you accept the reality you are most likely going to lose it. Definitely – like Aron – do all you can to avoid it but accept that at the moment divorce is your only option.

Contact your attorney and ask if filing first has any benefit in your state. If not then it’s up to you what the next step should be. Very often a spouse will “ask” for a divorce. Well – a divorce isn’t something you give. It’s something that you do. If she wants a divorce then let her DO it. Use the time to prepare yourself. Make the leaving of the marriage as hard as possible. Address issues like when and what to tell the children, residence, selling the house, where you will spend Christmas and all that.

This site is called Surviving Infidelity. It makes no mention of saving marriage or divorce. It’s simply survival. IMHO the path to survival starts once we start moving away from infidelity. It might not be the path you envisioned but it will definitely eventually get you to the goal of survival.

We talked again last night. No fighting/argument. Just calm conversation. I asked her directly, does she really want to divorce? She asked if I was going to call my attorney. I didn't answer. I asked her several times, does she want a divorce? She wont give a direct answer. All she says is that she is not sure if we can work out things. I tell her, for me, the marriage feels like it's already over (since DDay). Divorce would just be making it legal. And that for me, filing for divorce is the easier path to take since I've feel like I've detached enough emotionally. I said trying to work it out is the more difficult path as it will be an emotional roller coaster ride and the chance to be disappointed again. But regardless, I said that I have nothing to lose at this point and I want to know that I tried my best before giving up.

Regarding the AP, she said she decided to not see or communicate with him. His wife knows about the affair and he also has two children, so maybe that has something to do with it. I said if she can commit to NC with him, I can try not to get so angry, jealous, doubtful of everything she does. She said these are the things that are driving her away from me. She said she knows I have good cause to feel those things. I think I have partially failed at the doing the 180. I'm part Irish, so my temper has always been a weakness and gets me in trouble more often than not.

So my plan now is to continue to do the 180 the correct way.

And see how things go the next couple weeks. But I will also use the time to think of the logistics/do more research if we do end up divorcing. There is so much that would need to be done and planned for.

I really do feel relieved that I see a way out of this. My preference to to R, but if not, I'm fine with D too.

Actions speak. Words don't.

What do you want? She's already demonstrated she doesn't care what you want, so why tell her?

Why is she in the house?

Look, I understand not wanting 2 rock the boat, even when it's on fire and sinking. But the simple truth is that she doesn't have 2 do anything, since you've told her and shown her you want 2 recover no matter what. In my sitch, things ONLY started 2 2rn around when I told my wife that I wouldn't go through what she put me through again for anybody or any reason. I meant it. And she knew it.

-ol' 2long

You have no idea how far you would get with her if you kicked her out the house now and serve her divorce papers. I know this is hard, but it is delaying the inevitable. She hasn't hit rock bottom yet so she is still cake eating....

Please, listen to everyone here. Push her so far away that when she realizes she has no one, she comes crying back. It is the only way for her to respect you again and save the marriage.

You have to lose it to save it.

I may have been harsh in my earlier post, and for that I apologize. My intention was not to insult or humiliate you. It was a wake up call.

The fact that she refuses to say yes/no to a divorce should be enough.

Of course she doesn't want a divorce. For her the current situation is perfect. She has a husband that pays the bills/looks after the children, and she can go have sex with whoever she wants.

If you were my friend, I would be screaming at you to find your backbone.

Sounds as if the OM has throw her under the bus and chosen his family over her; after a passionate sexual goodbye of course.. Not much of a surprise there. Now she is going to cut a deal with you. If you rugsweep this affair and all the intense insults she has paid you, she will reconcile since she has nowhere else to go. Doesn't want to be a single parent and likes the convenience of a marriage. You have virtually agreed to this deal which will only put off the end of your relationship for a while, since she is certain that what she has done is unforgivable, as it should be considering what she has done.

So you will reconcile and the affair will rarely be discussed or she will turn away from you.

I can try not to get so angry, jealous, doubtful of everything she does. She said these are the things that are driving her away from me.

Thats just blackmail; rugsweep or I'll leave or start another affair.

Well you have to live under these rules with a plainly non-remorseful WW. Best of luck because you will need it.

Well I had enough. Talked to my WW today and found out she still wants contact with the AP. She said she is thinking about going to a volleyball game with him and a couple others. So to her its not a date. I call it BS! She doesn't want to even try to reconcile either. So I said if that is the case, lets make and appointment to see an attorney next week about filing for divorce. I also said I plan to move out as soon as possible because I wont put up with her still seeing the AP and us living in the same house. I also said I am not watching the kids when she goes out at night. And I said once I move out, I basically want no contact with her except regarding the children (we will share custody 50/50) or for divorce related matters. I'm not helping her with anything else.

Right after I told her that, I get a phone call from the AP's wife. She wants to meet with me next Thur. And I plan to tell her everything I know. She just got my letters a couples weeks ago. So Im sure she was like me in the beginning trying to figure out what the truth is and whats going on.

PS - My wifes reaction so far? Nothing! Same as its been these past seven weeks, no remorse, no empathy, no guilt. Total Vulcan, no feelings.

[This message edited by coda87 at 12:11 AM, October 13th (Sunday)]

Set up an appointment to see YOUR lawyer by YOURSELF.

Do not leave your house until you've spoken to your attorney.

Sadly, as much of a stranger as she appears now, divorce will render her utterly unrecognizable.

Given her last shitty and selfish display of disregard of you there is another thing you must remember - she is no longer your confidant. It is time for you to hold your cards close to the vest. It is so difficult to shift away from the familiar partnership but you must. Everything you share with her now becomes ammunition. So yes, meet with the other BS but remember, it is no longer you WW's business.

And do post on the separation/ divorce forum. It was my best resource during the process.

Good luck. Stay strong. Remember that you deserve good things.

As I said in my last post your wife is prepared to 'reconcile' as long as she can still see the OM and you don't give her a hard time with your pain and grief.

She doesn't love you or respect you yet you would still have her back as long as she gave up the affair. You still don't see what is important in a marriage; it isn't only the infidelity, its the value she places on you, and currently thats not very much.

Divorce her and see if that induces a change of heart; if not she was lost anyway. Honestly I can't see how this is going to work out; she has zero feelings for you.

Is there anyway you can get her to move out? Why should you disrupt your life any further and end up in a crummy apartment, paying child support and maybe alimony, while she gets to entertain boyfriend in a convenient love nest. You need to get a lot harder and tougher, or your WW is going to take you to the cleaners, and she will have no conscience about doing so.

coda87

Hello coda, I'm sorry that this is happening to you and your family. It seems she isn't willing to even try to change and that just makes everything so much worse. I just wanted to let you know I hear you and understand.

Good luck and God bless you.