SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm thinking that e-card from 2013 has probably bitten the dust by now.

HOWEVER, she tells him to 'log in' to the greeting card website to pick it up - does that mean he's got a profile on there so he can send e-cards? You might want to try logging into the site using common log-ins and passwords he's used for other websites over the years.

But touching on the subject of how you keep wanting to read the emails between these two and how painful it is when you do it, it reminds me of having a sore in your mouth and even though it hurts like hell when we poke our tongues at it, we just can't resist and keep doing it anyway. We call this "pain shopping" here on SI; even though it hurts, we just can't stop looking for that emotional beating by looking at emails or pictures or texts, etc. etc. etc. You start to feel like a masochist after awhile.

Lastly, I just wanted to reiterate what some of the other posters have said about you scheduling MC at this point. Right now, it's kind of pointless to go to counseling because he's still involved with the OW (from all the signs, anyway) which just means he's going to lie his way through any sessions you attend. He's still lying about the affair, he's still gas-lighting you, he's still minimizing everything and he's still trying to protect his ass any way he can. I honestly think it would be wasted effort (and money in co-pays) to go that route when he's not in it to win it, as they say.

Sending much strength and peace of mind to you today, Kaylee.

PS - I just wanted to say that I really hate to see YOU doing all the work trying to clean up HIS mess.

I understand your need to try to bring about order to your life - trust me, we ALL know that feeling all too well. But I hate to see you knocking yourself out looking for answers and counsel and downloading books and reading them and spending time here on SI looking for guidance - while he's doing NOTHING. He's just going along on his merry way, completely and selfishly oblivious to the shit-storm he's rained down onto you, your home and your marriage while he looks after his own needs and no one else's.

I have a piece of advice that rings so true yet I often have to remind myself to follow it, is to NEVER give more than you're getting.

You're doing all the giving and he's doing all the taking.

Perhaps it's time you started scaling back your efforts until he shows a true willingness to pitch in his 50%? Otherwise, you're just carrying the load all alone.

He left his laptop bag next to mine on his way out to work this morning, with a folder that included all of his e-mail, FaceBook, Twitter account names and pws.... Should I take this for what it's worth that maybe he is "coming around" and realizing what he did?

Maybe, but the problem is, right now you can't believe a word he says or an action he does. That's why others are telling you to 'enact a consequence' - start divorce, leave for a while, make him leave for a while, all of these things can be undone if you so decide. But right now, you are dealing with a cheater, and a cheater by definition is a liar.

Unfortunately, it's all too common for WS to suddenly give the BS access to everything. They will hand us their cell phone, their passwords, the keys to their office and car...only for the BS to find out the WS simply got a new secret cell phone and new emails and a storage unit. It's called "going underground" and it's what cheaters do when they want to continue the A (or hide it) and want to appease the BS into complacency.

I'm not saying I know what he is doing, I'm saying you're dealing with someone who is in self preservation mode right now. You need to do the same. This was probably a LTA (long term affair) PA and EA. It's unlikely that in his current state of denial and minimizing he truly ended it or is being totally honest yet.

I feel he may feel guilty and maybe trying to 'make up',but he needs to do more than all that. What he's doing is to 'rugsweep' the unpleasantness and trying to focus on the future where he plans to be a good boy (or maybe putting on an act). But it never works like that, what he will learn is that you were okay with him cheating and also you will truly suffer for it, searching and looking for answers. He and she know all of it, you don't have a clue. You have to stand firm and tell him the importance of coming clean and just convey that you cannot make it work without knowing all the details,the timeline, the extent of the affair, where they did what etc. If you don't get closure at this point, it will trickle into all aspects of your life. Hang in there. (())

Also you have all the evidence, her mail, her husband's mail etc. Ask him to explain those. You cab also get in touch with the OWs BH and ask him for any proof he may have if you really want more. But this is sufficient, you dont need anymore. Its so ckear.Sometimes even though we are people pleasers, we have to learn not to let people step over us especially because your kids are learning from all of it, they are so perceptive. Stay strong. Hugs

Unless I missed the post where he admitted the affair and confessed.... It sounds like he's planting stuff, knowing you'll see it, in an attempt to emotionally manipulate and gaslight you some more.

*Maybe* he's coming around and edging closer to admitting the affair with you, hopefully he's reading How to Help Your Spouse Heal - and if so, bookmark the chapter on coming clean for him.

But so far he hasnt' crossed that bridge. Giving you passwords to his accounts that he's already cleaned up, or will of course b e"clean" from this point going forward if he's taken it underground... that's just a gaslighting attempt. He needs to come clean before transparency actually means anything..

As far as the counseling goes, all of this has thrown my body into anorexia again... The counselor is meeting with us apart first then she has a session where we'll meet together. I'm glad I'm reading what everyone is saying here BEFORE my session in 30 mins..... He is an ASS!!!! Plain and simple-he deserves the grenade in his face. I'm too trusting but now this is affecting me physically-I almost died as a teenager with this eating disorder-he's not going to be the one who makes me kick the bucket over this!

Oh, and his answer to me when I clearly (this past Sat) didn't see an abusive person in the OWs husband's email tone... WS's defense... "Kaylee, don't believe him (OWs husband)... He's "playing" you ".... That's the pot calling the kettle black, pure and simple!

I would suggest being very upfront and saying you believe the BH and not him at this point. Tell him he has lost your trust. Tell him what you belive and the evidence. Show the counsellor every piece of evidence. I would not back off and not accept anything else. Tell him explicitly you can't R without a confession.

I would also be VERY upfront with him and tell him you know he had an affair, he has not been truthful and he is STILL not being truthful. And do, bring your evidence to IC so the IC knows he upfront that he is trying to gaslight you.

He needs to be completely transparent and consistently remorseful if you are to attempt to R. Otherwise, you are going to have a false R and you will end back up here with another D day.

Take care and good luck at IC.

(((Kaylee)))

I'm too trusting but now this is affecting me physically

kaylee711, Let me say that the hardest part in getting past our initial Dday is letting go of our "blind trust" to our spouse, especially when having been married for so long. We've mentioned before how we cannot "Nice" our WS back into recommitting to the M, and it further underlines the BS's need to get tough mentally and emotionally as soon as you can. You're best bet to protect yourself from your WH is to first remove all trust you have in them. Start treating him like the wayward stranger that he has become. Detach with the 180 and start acting on yours and your children's behalf to protect all three of your from his selfish and self-entitled behavior.

Also, understand YOUR own worth. YOU didn't cheat. Let me just say how golden that is for your own character and your own self worth. That's huge, especially for the struggles you went through as a youth. You clearly are the stronger spouse in your M. Your kids need your strength to help guide them through this as it is aparent that your WH will go so far as to use them to further his selfish needs.

I strongly consider seeking legal counsel. It is tough to do, especially without emotion, but the sooner you learn of your legal rights for custody and property the more knowledge you add to your leverage in the situation. Just understand that knowledge is power. You already have knowledge of the A in those printouts and you have already experienced the gaslighting from your WH. Imagine what it will be like when it gets to the stage of talking about D with him. He may very well do the same and attempt to intimidate you out of what is rightfully yours. Now, it does not mean you have to file right away or at all. Just be ready.

From here on out, it is all about watching his actions. You already know his capacity to lie. It doesn't matter if he seems transparent up front, it is the actions that tell the truth of intentions. Keep an eye out for remorse vs. regret. Make sure you can identify the behavior differences between the two.

Confused, so confused, but something is telling me to not throw away 20 years of marriage.... I just want to be careful and prevent any "I'm sorrys" on my part, because all of my life, I've taken the blame for situations that are not necessarily my fault....

Understand that he already threw the M away. He just used it as a safety net while he "explored" other options. Now the idea here is to determine if he is willing fight for it back. However, without him feeling remorse for what he did to you, your children, and your M he won't even begin to truly fight. The only way to start shaking him out of the fog and make him realizes what he is about to lose is make him suffer consequences. Yes, he seems to be doing some proactive things like reading books on helping the BS but you don't know the motive behind this action. Did he finally pull his head out of his ass or is he just running through a check list of how to control the situation again and put you back in your place of his cake-eating world.

Oh, and his answer to me when I clearly (this past Sat) didn't see an abusive person in the OWs husband's email tone... WS's defense... "Kaylee, don't believe him (OWs husband)... He's "playing" you ".... That's the pot calling the kettle black, pure and simple!

I think that answers the question as to his motive behind his actions. Clearly he is still trying to control the situation rather than acting on remorse.

Keep your guard up and keep digging. Don't let him know you are going to see an attorney, and go see more than one. Most give free first counsel.

It sounds like he's planting stuff, knowing you'll see it, in an attempt to emotionally manipulate and gaslight you some more.

I agree with this ^^^^^

And him saying the OBS (other betrayed spouse) is playing you???!!!!! OMG, really, what a piece of work he is. You do know that's completely without a doubt ridiculous, right.

I'm sure his trampy wife is telling him the same stuff about you: that you're crazy or jealous or whatever.

When I JFO and couldn't eat or keep anything down when I tried to eat, I started to get really sick. My Dr. put me on Paxil and I think that might be a great option for you because it's used to treat Anorexia.

My doctor prescribed Paxil the day I went in to tell her about my now ex cheating and to get STD testing.

She literally saved my life by prescribing this for me. I was about two weeks into D day when I started taking it and within one week of taking it, I was strong enough to begin legal proceedings to end my marriage, which I needed to do. To add, I have never regretted ending my marriage.

All that said, I did find the withdrawal from Paxil rather unpleasant. My doctor prescribed Celexa to get me through that and that worked. I know some people are opposed to AD's but they can make a huge difference for many people who are facing a major trauma in their lives.

Being blunt, the OBS has never lied to you, and your husband was doing it all the time.

Your WH deserves a boot to the butt..

Separate physically...He may or may not refuse to leave the house..This kind of consideration or lack of it for you will be telling too..

But I think you would get more clarity and room to breathe (and eat) if he were gone (and gave you enough space) long enough for you to decide on how to proceed with your life..

Be ready for anything. In my case, it is incredible the lengths my WW has gone to maintain her wayward life. Burner phones, secret e-mail and FB accounts. secret computers, use of library computer, use of phones and computers at parents house, secret bank accounts, deleting everything, secret meetings, etc.

I've put up with this nonsense for almost two years, and have come to the conclusion she doesn't want to give up her wayward life. No amount of snooping or monitoring will changed a thing, but at least I know the extent of her deception, and am comfortable moving forward knowing she is completely uncommitted to R. How I ended up with someone so adept at cheating, lying and deceiving is beyond me, but that's how it goes.

The WS mind is like a horrible dark maze filled with unicorns and rainbows. It makes no sense and is so contradictory

. WS's defense... "Kaylee, don't believe him (OWs husband)... He's "playing" you ".... That's the pot calling the kettle black, pure and simple!

Never occurred to him that SHE could be playing him, eh? Oh no, no no no. Aps are always just the epitome of honesty and character.

I've been pretty IT savvy and have taken control of the Verizon cell service. I'm listed as the "parent" and my 13 year old's phone & WS's phone are now both "children" accounts on the plan. Isn't that so pathetic that I have to list the 50-yr old WS as my "child" for cell phone purposes?!?

Can any of you "gurus" tell me how I can install a burner on his cell? It's a Samsung 4g, I believe...

How was ic??

read the book, "Just friends"...LOL. Just friends? Yeah right...gotta love it, such rubbish!