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we're so far apart that actually getting to the root of our beliefs about whatever topic may truly cause me to lose respect for him or him for me.

Splint, I have to say that it sounds like you have already lost respect for husband. Case in point

He knows I'll do it anyway if she asks

I know you say you want debate and communication but this statement does not reflect that. Having an affair does not reflect that. Keeping secrets does not reflect that. You have been making unilateral decisions in your marriage. That is a position of control, not respect. You know you have control issues. And you will continue to be disappointed when your expectations are not met. And it is impossible for him to meet them when he has no idea what test he is taking. It isn't fair. And it certainly isn't respectful.

I don't necessarily think control is the problem, more self protection. You seem to be needing the control to protect. You say you won't go to AA because of the confession. What? Admitting you are an alcoholic in front of a group of people? Or confessing that rock bottom has occurred and you need help? Maybe admitting to someone that you may not be that "good" person everyone thinks you are.

You say that you aren't ready to deal with it. That you do t have the strength. I can tell you that we all have strength that we never think we have when we need it the most. Read my story. My BH has had to muster up a tremendous amount of strength. He too is an alcoholic. Took his last drink the day he found out that his best friend was sleeping with his wife. That his wife was ready to walk out the door forever. Hasn't had a drink since. And with strength and grace has guided me through a pretty successful R. It's not about strength. It's about desire. It's about choice to do what's right, healthy, and respectful of those involved.

It was about the fact that I thought I "knew" my husband & I could still be blindsided by his reaction.

Do you think it's possible to be "blindsided" again if you open up to him and discuss the state you are in? You seem so sure how he will react. I can tell you that I was sure as well. I was certain that my BH would send me packing. That's why I was ready to walk. Because I had already made the decision for him. I was sure about a lot of things. I used those certainties to justify every move. But I'm happy to say that I was wrong. And it's possible that you are too. The thing is, you have no idea until you let go of the outcome and let the chips fall where they may.

Sometimes to understand other people we need to really listen to them. It's difficult to listen if we are so busy having a conversation with ourselves about why we are right.

Honestly, the way you speak of your husband it sounds very much like you treat him like one of the children. I have said it before and I will say it again. What you have now isn't a marriage, but management.

I don't necessarily think control is the problem, more self protection. You seem to be needing the control to protect.

Yes, I try to control as much as possible to protect myself.

You say you won't go to AA because of the confession. What? Admitting you are an alcoholic in front of a group of people? Or confessing that rock bottom has occurred and you need help? Maybe admitting to someone that you may not be that "good" person everyone thinks you are.

If I recall correctly, one of the 12 steps involves making amends. It just seems wrong to me to begin the process if I'm not fully open to that aspect yet.

Honestly, the way you speak of your husband it sounds very much like you treat him like one of the children. I have said it before and I will say it again. What you have now isn't a marriage, but management.

Respectfully, I can see why you would have that impression, but it's not accurate. I do know from MC that when it comes to certain topics, there are more effective ways to broach them. It really caught me off guard that I wasn't aware enough of his likely reaction to realize that this topic was one that needed to be handled with care, so to speak.

When it matters, really matters, each of us has to be careful with our phrasing so that we encourage discussion, listening, and respectful weighing of each other's opinions. We don't fight as a matter of course, and with lots of things in the day-to-day business of life, no real discussion is required. We just check in to make sure we're covered/free, whether we're planning an outing for the two of us or heading off on one of our own for the afternoon/evening or dealing with kid carpool. But if we're flippant or dismissive or hmm. telling, not discussing, when it comes to topics that matter, that's not constructive. We communicate very differently, and we know that...so we manage the conversation like the MC taught us to, not like a parent/child.

Also, to further clarify, I don't feel the pressure to rush to AA, as I can simply not drink. I do, in all likelihood, think like an alcoholic, so I'm sure I would benefit from the program, but I can actually not take a drink.

As for confessing, I will let the priest guide me through that process, as he'll likely be involved in dealing with the repercussions should he determine I need to confess to my husband, too. And if he determines I shouldn't, then he'll be able to walk me through what that looks like on my end, too.

Since I know BH is strong in his faith, it seems like the right course to let the spiritual leaders of our faith guide us through this.

Seems like to me that the reason you want to seek the advice of a priest is that you think he will also advise you not to tell. Which this is what you want. So again you are trying to control the out come again. I do feel however that it is a step in the right direction. Glad that you are seeking advise for this situation IRL. I just hope that you aren't seeking counsel in someone you know is against confession but rather seeking someone that is open to both views. As a BS I would want to know, to have my own choice on how my life is directed from here on out, not what my wife feels is best for me to know and not know. For the record I knew something was wrong in my marriage from the start of her affair. We started MC and she continued to lie through out that. I just kept digging till I figured out what it was. If your husband is anything like most guys he knows something was wrong during your affair. So I wouldn't be so sure that he won't figure it out or find out. The truth usually finds its way out sooner or later. Sorry for rambling and if I'm wrong about the priest thing please disregard. I think it is great that you are here and working on your issues. I wish my wife would take half the initiative that you have. Good job.

There is one problem with vowing to take it to the grave so to speak. You may keep it to yourself but there is no guarantee others will.

What will happen if your BH receives an anonymous email indicating something is wrong? Or if the xAP decides to come clean? There are lots of different ways these things play out and you have no control over that.

Also, to further clarify, I don't feel the pressure to rush to AA, as I can simply not drink.

Doesn't matter. As long as you're still in the mindset/behavioral patterns as you were while drinking, you won't get better. Whether it be addiction, infidelity or whatever, you can't heal until you find the root of the issue. Band aids can only work for so long.

im glad you can recognize what i meant about feeling entitled to make the decisions that affect your whole family, about justification that your decisions are not only good but somehow noble, about how your husbands decisions are bad and somehow harmful to the good of society.

its a skewed way of seeing things. it isnt that your opinions which drive your decision making process are better or worse, its that you denigrate the opinion of others who disagree by basically over-riding them. with a spouse its that much worse because you have agreed to a partnership with your husband.

to use your example of medicinal marijuana. there are a many steps and possible compromises possible between "ill buy her pot even though you completely disagree with this" and "we watch her die in intense pain even though your dad went through the same and he could have been helped".

im not saying you are right or that he is. what i am saying is that along the way between your divergent views are many possible compromises. in a partnership you HAVE to compromise. its what you agreed to when you got married and if you want to be an honorable and good person than you need to behave in an honorable manner - which includes abiding by the agreements you have made. no agreement ever made in your life carries as much weight as agreeing to get married.

you mentioned many times that you like to debate politics online. one thing very common to debate forums is that each side reduces the other to caricatures in order to refute arguments made by "the other side". this side is naive or what they want is proven not to work while what this side wants is cold, unfeeling, manipulative, etc. the reality is that neither side has a corner on truth, neither side is above blame, both sides are equally guilty of the same things in different ways, and both sides care about the same (im a cynic). political forums encourage this caricature in debate and often the two sides in debate are telling each other things that are very cruel but that feel justified in telling because "they have the truth" and care about "the greater good". this approach results in the two sides becoming very distant from each other with a ton of knee jerk reactions, simplifications, and feeling betrayed and misunderstood by the other side. what is said on a political forum (and i know, i belong to several with 10s of 1000s "following" me) there are no long term consequences, i log out and go on about my life.

the same feelings are felt in a marriage when this is done. the difference is that there are long term consequences. both "partners" begin to feel the other is deliberately simplifying what they say and misunderstanding it. the results are a feeling of betrayal, anger, and distrust. the same thing that fuels the anger in our political system and is so toxic there is even more so in a marriage. if you log out of a marriage and decide to go on wiith your life - the results are disaster. this is how affairs happen. this is what leads to divorce. this is what leads to two people existing as roommates rather than loving spouses.

it takes a massive effort to change the dynamic of how things get discussed and compromise is found. i know. im still learning. im just trying to pass on something to you that i have learned in my own life.

"We have a stable life that's good for our kids though, and we do get along well most of the time, so for this phase of life, it feels like maintaining our M is the right thing to do"

I tried not to comment, but the above statement keeps ringing in my ears. I'm sorry, but MAINTAINING your marriage is the right thing to do for THIS PHASE OF LIFE is total crap. Marriages that are true and committed are not conducted in phases - a marriage is a lifetime commitment. This sounds like the old "we're staying together for the kids" crap. A BS cannot be a BS if her or she doesn't know that they're a BS. The scales are not and cannot be balanced when only one side has all of the information. Sorry moderators, but she asked for comments, well I think you're a self-serving individual at best and that this is just an unbelievable cruelty to your spouse. I'm done ...

Seems like to me that the reason you want to seek the advice of a priest is that you think he will also advise you not to tell. Which this is what you want. So again you are trying to control the out come again.

I googled before I posted that here & found random priest advice in articles & such. It actually appears there is no one pat response they give. Also, they will advise revealing the affair to the spouse, too, so it's not a given that they will go along with my preference.

It's just that when it comes down to it, the two most important things in his world are his family & his faith. I can find people who agree with me. That's easy. I could likely spin things for a priest. I don't want to do that. It's part of why I haven't gone yet. I need to believe me when I say my affair is done, and I need to follow through with whatever action he recommends. I want to be certain on the first point--without that, I may lie or manipulate. I need to approach the priest with honesty. And I need his advice. The concerns of SI will be raised re: confession with spouse. I wasn't lying when I said I hear you, & I understand your pov. It's just not something I'm going to adopt on the advice of virtual strangers. I will, however, present both sides of the tell/don't debate to a priest & allow him to make that call.

soulshattered...

You have a PM.

I am just blown away by people on these boards sometimes. What a wise post, WalkinOnEggshelz.

Split,

You remind me so much of myself when I first came here. The desperate desire to control all things in my life. I still fight with that. I am getting to the root of why I need to have that control. Your need to do something even if your husband doesn't agree. I was the same way. I could be like a dog with a bone. He still says that to me by the way. These traits, these things we do, there are reasons for them. Keep looking at yourself. It sounds like you are trying to do that. This is good. It is scary at first. That disconnect. I had it too, I can still have it. There are reasons it is there. Don't be discouraged. Hugs, you can do this.

Agree with hubby. Regardless of political feelings if u hav kids u never ever do anything that even "Might" hav a negative effect on them. Also saw where u mentioned maintaining your marriage. Him,, might be why affair happened and risk another. Understand not telling him, if u can handle guilt probably best why hurt him crush him. But might be time to Work on making it a love affair marriage he deserves it so do you, and yes it is possible. Even with kids and all life's grinds.

Just a few comments about some things that resonate with me. You said you felt "blindsided" about not anticipating your husband's reaction to something. My phrase is "having the rug pulled out from under me". The sensation is hollowness in my stomach, off balance in my posture, and a weakness in my muscles. The emotions are fear and shame. My understanding of shame, based on the work of Silvan Tomkins, is that on the biological level it is triggered by one of two things: a sudden interruption of feeling close to someone, or a sudden interruption of our sense of mastery and control of some task. It sounds like both of these were triggered in your discussion with your husband. The healthy reaction to shame is to get beyond the biological trigger and find a way to reconnect with the person you want to be close to and succeed at the task that matters to you. It sounds like you did that, so congratulations.

About 12 step groups, there is a reason that making amends is Step 9, not Step 1. It is perfectly all right to start where you are. In my Overeaters Anonymous group, the only requirement for membership was the DESIRE to stop eating compulsively - nothing else. You don't have to confess, you don't have to have particular beliefs, you don't have to bring up any issues. You can say "I don't want to be here and I think it will make things worse" and no one will tell you to think differently. They will just be there and listen to whatever you want to share. You can probably tell that I found my 12 step groups very supportive, but if you try one that doesn't feel that way, it is your right to just leave. It's different from therapy and different from SI, and it didn't prevent me from having an affair, but it was valuable in my growth.

Keep going - you're headed in a direction you want to go, and you deserve to get there.

BS here. I was firmly in the "If an A happens, I walk" camp and yet here I am. WW even had more than 1. I am still being TT'd and it resets our progress every time. Knowing more is coming makes me angry. WW has more FOO and personal issues than I can personally understand, and I have my own and yet here I am. I found out, WW did not confess. I wish she had. My decision to R or not hasn't been fully made, I'm very much one day at a time for now. My point is, I didn't know my response even though I was sure of what it would be. You can't assume you know your husbands either. The fact is, you have no idea how you'll react to this kind of betrayal.

There are clearly numerous items you are trying to deal with in this entire thread. I commend your strength and your bravery. I wish you well.

I question your thread post and your signature. Eg. "To the grave" (absolute) vs. "work in progress" (not absolute). This is an internal disconnect. I know that is largely expected as you work through your stuff. It will be this way for quite sometime. Your A is indeed incongruent with what you are expressing now. I applaud your progress. Owning it must be incredibly difficult and you are making the right steps.

However, you're able to open up and I believe you are being honest to a bunch of strangers on the internet. Luckily you've picked a good group. Why are you able to be so vulnerable to us but not to your BH? This could be a behavioral pattern first between you and your AP and now you and SI. You'll know you've made some serious change when you come to SI to brag about demonstrating this behavior first with your BH. It sounds like you want to, at least.

I'm still in my M, trying to show my WW true vulnerability by sticking around. I want her to display vulnerability to me by being honest with me. I suspect/assume your BH may have wanted to discuss your relatives situation further but by your own admission you 1) shut down the conversation and 2) weren't interested and 3) validated his point about the illegality of it in your state as correct. Were you vulnerable to his opinions in the debate? Did you follow up with further questions? Perhaps he had other suggestions.

Sorry if this was addressed as it was unclear to me BUT did your relative ask for your assistance with obtaining medical marijuana for pain management or was this your suggestion to help?

Slight but applicable thread jack from my IC/MC experience so far. My WW and I are both terrible communicators. Debate is an extremely advanced maneuver. We are actively still being coached a step at a time with the basics eg. I want X, I feel X, when you do X I feel Y. Sometimes it makes me feel lower than a child BUT I also feel heard. This makes it worth it. Your entire thread feels so indirect... Have you tried being direct with you BH about smaller (less heavy) issues? I need/want you to listen to X. I want advice about Y. What are your thoughts on Z. If those expectations are broken, I just need to you listen now. Etc... Those baby steps may help with the bigger issues.

Split - You're here. Please don't leave again. Keep at it. You've made a ton of progress. Everyone here wants you to have a fulfilling live and be a complete person. You need to open up to your BH if you want to have a solid M. What that means to you, is up to you to determine, one day at a time.

(Edited for clarity because I typed this initially on a tiny phone keyboard with my big clumsy fingers....)

[This message edited by totalheartbreak at 7:10 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)]

Please note, this thread was just bumped up after nearly two months.