Newest Member: Theman1488


BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

Vent about former friend and her creepy husband

I apologize in advance for the novel.

Toward the tail end of the lockdowns, the husband of one of my closest friends started messaging me frequently over social media. My friend caught him cheating on her about 10 years ago and she confided that she was occasionally suspicious about whether he was still sleeping around. At first, his messages to me were harmless stuff about music and politics (which I shared with her and my husband) but then he escalated into sex jokes and and details about his sex life with my friend (was trying to entice me?! Who the hell knows). I ignored the messages (partly out of shock and partly out of cowardice), but he continued to spam me with this sleazy shit, so I took screenshots of the messages and forwarded them to my friend.

I told her that I felt very uncomfortable with her husband messaging me in general and felt violated and disrespected by the fact that he would send me this crap in the first place. She said, "you're entitled to the way you feel" and that she would talk to him about it. She then ghosted me. Never called, never texted. I thought she might be afraid or embarrassed, so I tried calling or texting her. No response.

In retrospect, I wish I would've told him to fuck off myself and I'm kicking myself for being such a chickenshit.

After close to a year of her basically forgetting that I exist, she called me. I debated whether or not to answer, but was curious about what she would say, so I answered. She started with small talk about how busy she has been (implying that this is the reason she was out of touch) and giving me a brief update of her life.

Once that warm up was out of the way, she proceeded to gush about how great her marriage is. I gave her one word responses to anything she said pertaining Creeper... but this did not discourage her from going on and on about how things have never been as good between her and Creeper as they are now. The conversation went like this:

Friend: Creeper has been going to therapy and it's made such a huge difference.
Me: Good.
Friend: He told me he is going to save up to buy me a vacation house in Florida like I always wanted.
Me: Nice.
Friend: Creeper has really turned over a new leaf and finally appreciates me.
Me: For your sake, I hope that's true.
Friend: It is! Blah blah blah....

After about 10 minutes of this nonsense, I decided I was too frustrated and annoyed to continue, so I ended the conversation with: "It was nice talking to you, but I have to go now. Have a good night!" In a sad, meek voice, she responded: "well, ok, you too."

When I told my husband about the exchange, he said that she was probably trying to bait me into attacking Creeper so that she could defend him. I disagree; I think she was hoping that I would be so thrilled to hear from her and delighted that Creeper was behaving like a decent human being that I would just sweep everything under the rug and we could go back to sipping wine around my fire pit every Friday night. Friends of SI, what do you think?

I'm sad and disappointed, partly because I'm once again kicking myself for not just talking to her straight, the way I do when I'm on SI. But I really wanted to give my friend the opportunity to acknowledge that her husband's behavior upset me and at least ask about how I was feeling and how her decision to cut me off could've hurt me. Maybe I'm just making excuses for my fear of confrontation, but after everything I've been through with my ex's infidelity and the myriad of other interpersonal struggles I've had in my life, I just don't think that instructing someone on how to be a considerate friend is the best use of my time and I'm unwilling to expend the required emotional energy on a person who is willfully oblivious to my feelings.

8 comments posted: Thursday, November 18th, 2021

Rant on WS "Guilt and Shame" and "Self Esteem/Self Love"


I've noticed a pattern of generally 2 things that piss me off when I'm reading posts on SI. Sometimes, I'll actually start hammering out a response and delete it without posting because I realize that it's not going to be a constructive and I would rather not get kicked off.

First and foremost, are the posts about the cheaters' "guilt and shame." The posts on this topic in the Wayward Forum rarely bother me because most the cheaters who broach this topic seem to genuinely experience these emotions and are asking for advice on how to cope with them in healthy ways.

No, the "guilt and shame" posts that make my brain explode are the ones that come from a BS providing an explanation for their WS's highly selective amnesia or refusal to discuss the affair. Nine times out of 10, the excuse is bullshit, the BS knows it's bullshit, and the worst part... the WS knows that the BS knows it's bullshit, but they'll let the BS continue to delude themselves and anyone who is listening into thinking that the WS is experiencing comparable trauma and isn't just a cold, selfish person with 0 capacity for empathy.

And need I forget, too, the cheaters who crumple into a sobbing, sniffling ball of tears at the mention of their affairs. On several occasions when I've pointed out that the WS is cleverly employing a manipulation tactic to paint themselves as a victim and distract the BS from their own pain and righteous anger, I've been accused of being unsupportive and "you don't know my WS!" Well OK then, I'll just move on.

The second thing that drives me nuts is the idea that all bad behavior-- especially affairs-- can be attributed to low self esteem or lack of self love. I suppose that could be true of my XWH, who was like a black hole in constant need of compliments, adoration, and validation from others.

But would he have been a better person if he felt better about himself? I don't think that's a given. I think there are plenty of cheaters who are perfectly comfortable in their own skin and feel that, as extraordinary human specimens, they are always entitled to what they want and to get it on only their terms. They will lie because ethics requires truth, and truth leads to conflict, inconvenience, and sacrifice.

I disagree with the premise in popular psychology that self esteem is a requisite to being a good person. There are people who think of themselves as garbage who are kind, full-hearted, and fair in all their dealings with with others. And there are people who adore themselves but only value others to the extent that they find them useful. The reverse is also true.

I think, in a perfect world, a person's self esteem would be commensurate with their abilities, contributions, and positive impact on the world around them.


[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:38 PM, June 21st (Monday)]

23 comments posted: Monday, June 21st, 2021

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