Not a vengeful person but I wish AP would reap what she sowed
I confess that I check AP's social media. I don't think this is purely macabre, but it's also partially because I am scared of her showing up so I like to be sure she's still gone.
Anyway, this woman is one of those people who publicly shares what she has for breakfast and every time she farts as if the world is interested. She screams desperation in the typical way fake, needy people with voids inside often do. Just neverending "look at me, look at me". Even if she hadn't had an affair with WH she is the kind of person who would nauseate me.
Anyway, it irritates me that people don't see through her or know any of the truth.
For one thing, she severely abused me, bullied me, harassed me, stalked me, manipulated, lied and tried to destroy my life just so she could get what she wanted for herself. For another thing, she blackmailed, threatened, hit, lied to, assaulted, abused and severely damaged my WH.
She is at best a really terrible human being, with some sort of pretty significant personality disorder and at worst she is probably a psychopath. She ticks every box for the latter.
Yet, I kept quiet. WH kept quiet. So she waltzed off, creating a public set of alternative facts where she was the victim. We even heard from mutual friends that she has told everybody I stalked her and she just lied completely about everything.
She has had a new BF for the last six months or so and literally all the way through she publicly posted cute photos of them together and all these love quotes, whilst behind closed doors, she continued to stalk both me and WH and try her best to destroy us.
Her new BF would probably hate her guts if he knew the truth. In fact, everyone would hate her guts if they knew the truth. Yet because myself and WH never stopped remotely to her level, she basically has come out of this with all her lies and deceptions tucked away and the aura of the poor, downtrodden woman who loved the wrong man.
It really does make me sick!
I hope karma bites her severely on her huge ass.
14 comments posted: Friday, December 3rd, 2021
I have asked for a divorce
I am sorry I am spam posting lately, but my reconciliation has fallen apart completely and I am really bamboozled and shaken. I saw a side of my WH I didn't think existed. Even with the affair, I thought I knew him and that there were things he wasn't capable of - like talking to me the way he did today.
We had a huge argument over the weekend. It was the 1st anniversary of DDay 1 so I was reallytriggered and instead of making it as easy as he could, there was a big argument over AP and Facebook. The gist was:
- I wanted him to block AP on Facebook (he had unfriended but still not blocked and she was tagging mutual friends into posts so he could still see her) and untag himself from all the photos she took of him and posted during the affair (which a year after Dday were still literally there on my own fucking husband's page).
- He refused to do it because he said it might cause AP to act in revenge (she is crazy) and he said he hadn't had contact with her for months and why was I asking him to do something he felt was dangerous and invalidating his "legitimate concerns"
It turned into a huge argument and I threatened him with divorce after which he deleted Facebook entirely which he felt was the only acceptable alternative to facing APs potential ire.
He was definitely the one in the wrong, because blocking her finally was a complete no-brainer, but because it launched off me being awake all night crying and telling him how much what he did traumatised me, he came away from it basically thinking that I was "making" him feel "worthless" and guilty for things he did months ago that he can't change.
When obviously what I was asking him to do was change it!!!!
I told him he makes himself feel all those things by not doing what he needs to do to make amends for the crappy things he has done and if he wanted to feel proud of himself he had to change his actions. The lack of accountability is staggering. In his "poor me" mind right now: me not letting him rugsweep = me making him feel like a bad person, or making him feel worthless.
So since that argument, all week he's barely said two words to me, which has never happened before in all the years we have been together, so I told him I was getting pissed off at being ignored. I told him a few times and he just kept on ignoring. I tried to instigate conversation a lot of times and got one word answers. I pressed him tonight and said I was mad and hurt too, but if he kept pushing me away he was going to make a bad situation really, really bad because I was at tipping point.
He said he was very hurt and couldn't cope with me saying more things to hurt him, so it was better not to talk beyond discussing plans for my birthday weekend (this weekend). I said "so you expect to stonewall me all week for the crime of being upset about your affair and asking you to block your mistress, then go out for a fun birthday?"
He said he wasn't doing anything, he was taking care if his wellbeing. I said "and who's taking care of mine?"
I explained what stonewalling was and screenshotted him message to me after Dday where he said "I feel like it's dangerous for us to stop communicating. That's red alert. We would each scuttle off to our bunkers and come up with narratives that were not true. Please don't stop talking to me".
The hypocrisy that I didn't give him the silent treatment when he had a fucking affair, but now I am getting it for BRINGING UP THE AFFAIR or asking him to block the person he cheated with is blowing my tiny mind.
Then he starts saying out of nowhere, "I am not a worthless human, I am not going to be made to feel like one for mistakes I made".
WTF?! I have literally been the most loving and forgiving person and I swear since I met him have done nothing but try and teach him self-worth (he had none when we met and even less now because he cheated) and I feel so hurt that he is accusing me of making him feel worthless for the crime of actually having feelings for actions he committed to me or needs that he created for me.
He even said to me "I used to admire you because you were such a happy person and I wanted to be around that". Cough! As opposed to me being less fun now since you destroyed my fucking life so you could get laid?! Is AP more fun?!!!
I know this is abuse!
I have never done a single thing to harm him since we met. And this is why this hurts so much. He had an AFFAIR. With multiple DDays. And he wants to tell me that I make HIM feel worthless? How the fuck does he think I feel?
I have asked him for a divorce now and this time I think I really meant it
I don't even feel sad right now, just resigned. This past year, I have watched a man I once thought the world of sink over and over again to depths I didn't think was possible. I have watched him mistreat me dozens of times, and watched him make a mockery of our reconciliation. I feel almost like the man I loved is gone anyway, so what's the point of staying with this new, horrible person? I was listening to him talk, and I thought, "I just don't know this person anymore". It was the loneliest feeling.
I used to love a person who was the kindest and most honest person I knew. I loved him so much. He was humble and gentle and clever and he treated me like I was precious and what we had was so good. He destroyed it, and when given the chance to fix it, all he wanted to do was protect himself.
His affair and his insane AP gave him a bonafide nervous breakdown. And now the version of him I live with can't cope with life. He's no longer fit or healthy. He is angry all the time. He is hopeless and can't feel joy or excitement or anything good. She did that to him, but I am here picking up their pieces. Living with a depressed person is hard anyway, but when the thing that depressed them was betraying you, then I think there's probably no greater love than the love it takes to do that.
I am so sad for him that he pissed that away.
I took care of him when he was at his lowest. I told myself he had made mistakes because he was abused as a kid but he really loved me and I loved him and we would be okay. Then he blew every chance I gave him. He turned into the "what not to do" version of this.
I think the mistake I made, was thinking he was better than he really is. He's a good person inside, a person I love deeply and wanted to share a life with, but he's too cowardly to face what he's done.
He had an affair because he has a weak ego, low-self esteem and the ability to only look out for himself because he learned as a kid to do that. He takes what makes him feel good in the moment. For a time, that was me. Then when 5000 miles separated us for a year, he took what was there.
Right now, I think he'd probably prefer to be shacked up with AP telling him how great he was, rather than living the consequences. For about ten minutes while the validation made him feel good-enough so he didn't have to sit with painful feelings. Then she'd be right back to hitting herself in the face and he'd fall even darker into his hole wishing he had never destroyed beautiful, kind Grace, who he always said he didn't deserve.
I betrayed myself this past year by tolerating behavior that wasn't acceptable, and he got comfortable disrespecting me and not keeping agreements. I should have left a long time ago
I was afraid he'd kill himself for a while. I was afraid she'd kill him. I was afraid if I left him he would end up with AP and she was bonafide dangerous and I was afraid for him because if he had it would have definitely ruined his life for good. I was afraid he would get too sick to work. The reasons I stayed were mostly for him.
For me, there was the hope that he's rise from the ashes of his mistake and fix himself, because he loved me enough to know he owed it to us both to make sure he became a better, stronger, healthier person who chose to become a man who deserved me.
I loved him, no matter what he did I didn't want to see him hurt. Even if he brought it on himself, I think I knew losing me would permanently destroy him. I think he's a person who sets out to destroy himself, because he hates himself. And cheating on me made him hate himself the worst.
It's my birthday this weekend.
My last birthday was spent with AP calling me over 50 times, messaging, harassing me while I vomited and shook. I remember so clearly the feeling I had was pure terror. Terror for whatever cruel, vile thing her next crazy message was going to say. Terror that if anyone hurt me any more, I would die from the pain.
I am so sad he let me down so much.
78 comments posted: Thursday, November 18th, 2021
Questions for those who have been through R and succeeded or failed or for Waywards who found it hard at first to do the work
I am at a point now where I know (at least now) that my R is really not going well and I don't feel very hopeful that the things promised to do to help me heal are going to be delivered any time soon. If ever. And I need to decide my next steps.
I'd really like some advice, input or guidance from people who have been where I am. Maybe with Rs that didn't work out, or with Rs that went badly for a while and then improved or from Waywards who really screwed up R initially but pulled themselves back.
We had about 9 or 10 weeks of textbook perfect R initially when I was really hopeful, and then it fell apart over the next month. We were 5000 miles apart for eight months trying to R and his AP lived next door and worked in his office closely with him and, so it's not like we had the best circumstances and by about week 10 he had started having severe panic attacks and that spiralled into what I'd classify as a complete breakdown.
His doctor actually called me in concern, it was that bad. The "relationship" with AP was pretty severely abusive, and this has triggered a pretty seriously abusive childhood and to be honest, even without the affair the person he is right now is too much of a mess for even a regular relationship without this on top. I think he has pretty severe depression and trauma.
He is actually a real mess, like a bonafide complete mess. He badly needs IC and maybe medication but he refuses both. But the bottomline is that while he is in this state there is zero capacity for R.
Right now, his attitude is basically that he's clinging on my the tips of his fingers for survival and he thinks just because he's now back together with me physically it's enough. I have asked him what he's doing to move towards R, and he said "I am with you every day, I choose to be here and I try every way I can to show how much I love you", which makes me incredibly angry as if showing up does me a favour.
Sure, he says when he is better in himself he will help heal me, but then it's been 8 months he has been in this state and although he's probably improved 60% in terms of his mental health from when he was at his worst, it's talk about the bad stuff that sends him backwards so I feel too guilty to express my anger and sadness which is no way to live.
If I explode with anger or sadness, he is sick for a week (and I mean seriously sick) and then he says things like "why are you trying to punish me for things I can't change?" or "I can't change the past" or "You make me feel like a bad person" or "I feel guilty and inadequate". I know al this shows he is a wayward who is not ready or willing to do the work he needs to do.
Sure, he does all the nice stuff. Like reminding me he loves me. Apologising frequently and often. The AP is dead in the water now and I feel sure he's out of the fog. I do trust he would never cheat again. I am just not sure we can heal by just acting like it was an anolmaly and getting on with life.
He really ISN'T a bad person, and reading a lot of the stories of waywards on here, none of them are "bad people" either, but he's also not taking responsibility and he's trying to rugsweep or make out that he can just show up home, make new, happy memories and somehow we will be okay.
The guilt, shame, sense of inadequacy which made him a prime target for cheating when some woman chased after him is all the same stuff that makes it hard for him to sort his shit out right now and I don't know really what to do.
Questions I have are:
Aside from someone being sorry and you believing they'd never do it again, what did it take for R to really work for you? I can't explain what I am missing from him and he keeps asking me
Has anyone screwed up R like this and then made changes?
I don't really know what else to ask. I don't really want to leave and end our marriage because I think we'd be happier together once this is all over, but I am scared about the future version of us that I can't yet see.
20 comments posted: Sunday, November 14th, 2021
Taken aback by 1 year anniversary of DDay
Yesterday was the 1 year anniversary of DDay 1.
I was completely taken aback by my reaction. I was expecting it to be just another day, and didn't really understand "triggering", but as the day moved on me, I was consumed with anxiety like I was waiting for something awful to happen.
I was in the kitchen the day AP called me a year ago, and spent the night in there crying on the floor. Yesterday I could not go into the kitchen at all - I literally ordered everyone dinner for delivery and just stayed in bed and didn't even wash.
I also flipped out at WH and packed his bags and asked him to leave. My reason being that I feel so bad still and I started to feel like I am never going to feel better, or that if he loved me this would never have happened, or that if I was lovable no one would ever have done this to me and worse, that he will eventually cheat on me again because why the heck would anyone want to be married to such a sad sack?
It was just like regressing into a nightmare and I felt absolutely terrible.
WH refused to leave, although I asked him to a hundred times, he just sat by the bed and said he was never leaving me. He stayed with me all day and night. He sat awake all night while I cried and told him how much I hurt. He cried too.
He reassured me that I never looked ugly, not even after not washing and crying all day and that I was his favourite person and he wanted to be around me no matter how miserable I was. He reassured me that his affair only happened because we were separated by distance and a pandemic for so long, and he had problems inside himself and weaknesses he didn't understand and that that made him vulnerable and it was never any shortcoming on my part or his love for me that caused it. He said he loved only me, had only ever loved me, and never wanted to be with anyone else and that if I left him he would be alone forever just hoping I would come back.
I want to believe him, but I can't understand how anyone could love the version of me post-affair. I used to be fun and sexy and full of laughter and self-confidence and optimism. I used to think I was a pretty great person. Now I am a damaged person who cries and is angry all the time.
He told me today is a low point, and that was to be expected, and it will all be better from now on. I feel like he will just stop loving me because of the mess and the misery of R. He says it's not misery, and being around me makes him happy no matter what and he is just grateful that I am still there.
Our R has been hard.
It started off so well with him energetic and willing to do absolutely anything. We did everything the books say - and started counselling and made great progress and felt closer than ever. But we had obstacles no one foresaw.
1. He had decided to give up his job and move to be with me and get away from AP (I was studying overseas) but it took eight months to find a new job, during which time he was seeing AP every day and working closely with her. Torture for me as she would not stop declaring her love and hassling him.
2. AP was obsessed with him and would not leave him or me alone the entire time, with really bad stalking, blackmail, threats, tantrums, violence and so on. Interspersed with sweet love letters and begging him to help her because she was going to kill herself. The strain on us was immense.
3. There was TT, not in terms of the details of the affair, but in terms of him initially telling me he had no feelings for her when it came to light over time he had a deep psychological dependence on AP brought about by a close emotional bond formed over 6 months of friendship before the affair started.
4. When we had a fight due to AP stalking and him refusing to report her, and I asked for a divorce 8 weeks into R. He got blind drunk and slept with AP again, after which R unraveled completely.
5. He then had a complete nervous breakdown, which took 6 months for him to even be slightly functioning. During which period, R was completely on hold as he could barely get through a day.
6. Before coming to me for our fresh start, he relapsed a third time, by entering into sweet "goodbye" emails with AP, who he was meant to never have any further contact with. This started off on her "checking in" on him at the office as he had been so sick and then her legitimate work emails started getting personal and he responded in kind.
So it has been very, very hard and after a few months with me now he is still only functioning at 60% after his breakdown. "No contact" only began then, and it feels to me like R itself hasn't really begun yet because he is still only functioning at 60%. I feel so many feelings over all of this which have not been processed.
I don't want to start IC and I can't really explain why I am resistant. I think because I feel like it's him I need to work this through with and not a stranger. He's still unfit to start MC, but that's on the cards for future.
I never expected this past year to be so hard or for him to be capable of hurting me so much, and now I see I am damaged, he is damaged and the marriage is damaged and the grief I feel for so many things is overwhelming at times.
I can see how much he loves me and regrets all this, but don't know how I get to feeling okay about it. I read the forum all the time and it's a great help.
Sorry for ranting.
9 comments posted: Saturday, November 13th, 2021
WS is depressed
After a long period of cracking, WS is now diagnosed with severe depression.
Brought on, no doubt, by the consequences of his crappy choices and the crazy AP stalking us both.
I have so much empathy for those with depression. I get how awful it is and I don't want him to suffer.
But is it okay to admit here that I'm sick of this somehow managing to be ALLLLLLLLLL about him?
Now he's depressed he has zero energy for R. He feels sorry for himself, because his life was so much better before D-day and it's consequences.
He keeps saying it's hard for us BOTH. But I'm not the one who created it.
He's probably had a breakdown of sorts and it's pretty severe so I feel like my feelings and needs are yet again nobody's priority.
I guess this post is just my little pity party. I'm sorry if I sound heartless. It does hurt me to see him suffer and I'm trying to help.
But somehow this has short changed me out of being the one who has wounds to lick and as childish as it is, it feels "not fair".
I can't really have a conversation with him right now. The little he's offering me is all he has to give. I'm not sure where it leaves me.
He says he has no capacity, so he tries to show me he loves me by doing practical things for me. Telling me I'm pretty. Making dinner when he has no energy.
I know he is trying, but it's still so much less than I need. I'm just sad all the time really. Not depressed like he is, but just a heavy kind of sad and a profound sense of aloneness.
13 comments posted: Tuesday, September 7th, 2021
Questions for the betrayed who've healed
I have posted a couple of times and had great help. I have a few questions I wanted to ask of those who have been where I am standing, and I'd appreciate it so much if anyone can answer some of this for me. I feel like my head is constantly racing with these questions and I thought maybe hearing from those who have been through the same could help answer with any thoughts they have on these topics?
1. If you were drip fed and over time the story just got worse, did you, like me, find this made it much more painful and hard to deal with? Had I known the full extend from DDay I would have left the M immediately without question, but it unraveled over time and by then I had invested so much time and energy into the R I felt almost like I was beaten down and I am not sure how to screw my head back on.
2. Affairs seem to come on different levels, and in my case I thought it wasn't quite as painful because my WS had no deep feelings for the AP. A long time into R, it became obvious that was not true. He is desperate to R and has cut off AP, but the pain of knowing he had feelings for someone who was not me literally eats me up inside. It's a thousand times worse than the sex. Can anyone tell me if they have Rd in these circumstances and how it turned out? I am worried I will just never get over it.
3. My WS seems to be desperate to R but is clueless on what I need and he keeps asking me over and over to tell him. I don't know how to answer and I am getting more and more angry that he doesn't figure this all out for himself. Can anyone tell me what their WS needed to do for them to help them through this?
4. If you forgave something you found unforgivable, how did you make it right with yourself afterwards? I feel like he's trampled my boundaries so many times I don't recognise myself and I feel a deep sense of heaviness inside like it's changed how I feel for myself. How can I re-establish the strong, happy, confident person I once was?
5. How does couples counselling work? Can anyone explain what to expect from this? I feel like WS and I have so much crap to deal with because of this and he's clueless and I am angry and I have no idea what we need, but if a counsellor started trying to tell me I was partly to blame or anything I think I'd go crazy!
6. Can anyone just tell me a bit about how they made the decision to stay or leave? Finances /kids aren't at play in my situation, and his infidelity has left me in a position I feel no matter which way I turn I will be sad. How did you make the decision, and did you make the right one?
Thanks everybody. I am struggling so much right now, as we are 9 months into R but it's really only beginning properly because until recently he worked with AP and we were separated by distance but in the 9 months he has let me down so many times. I am confused about pretty much everything and have no idea how to move forward. I guess I want to be happy again!
48 comments posted: Tuesday, August 17th, 2021
Please help me. WS has been so awful
I posted before, but this affair situation has been such a rollercoaster and I am really struggling with losing a grip on reality. Help from those who understand would help me so much.
Right now, my feelings are mainly:
1) Who is this monster and where is the lovely man I have always known?
2) Why is he acting so completely crazy and irrational?!
3) How can a sane person (which he once was) actually rationalise any of this as acceptable?
4) Where is his moral fibre or empathy? Do affairs send sane people crazy?!
I feel like what I want to do is probably end the relationship because what he's done is so bad now and I can't imagine ever feeling adored and safe like I once did, but I also at least try and understand what's going on, because basically I am so confused, shocked and blindsided that I can't even think straight.
- He cheated with a coworker when we were separated for many months due to work. T
- It was a very close friendship initially that turned to sexual when drunk.
- She persued, not him. He maintains he was lonely as I was away and just wanted to be friends and it got out of hand.
- She was madly in love with him, he told her (she confirms) he loved me and didn't feel the same way about her. She begged him to leave me for her, he refused.
- The friendhsip they had sounded nice, they got on great. The actual "relationship" once sex was involved was very toxic. She was desperate for him to leave me for her and she did some terrible things - including a domestic violence report needing to be raised. 10/10 level crazy.
- He ended it, we reconciled, then both of us were stalked to an extreme level for 4 or 5 months by this unhinged AP. She was obsessed. He seemed genuinely scared of her and went to great lengths to avoid her.
- No contact was never fully possible as they worked together and lived more or less next door - I was away at the time. But he didn't engage her or respond when she stalked.
- After about 5 months, of saying he had no feelings for her and never had, he started to miss her as a "friend". Bizarre given she was stalking us both.
- We started to get rocky after that as I was so upset. We split up and he slept with her twice again. He claims this was because I rejected him and he was so upset / went to a know source of comfort.
- Even though he was now "single", he met with AP and told her he did not want a relationship with her and loved me and that was never going to change and she had to stop stalking and move on.
- She finally gave up, stopped stalking. He then fell into a dark depression of craving and missing the toxic AP, saying he was confused and had no idea why he missed someone he was never in love with and who had done so many horrible things. He said he just missed the nice times when they were friends.
- He and I backed and forthed, but he maintained he loved me and only me and just had some kind of toxic bond with her and had therapy for it and started watching videos on addictions to toxic people and abusive relationships.
- He agreed to leave his job to escape her and said he loved me and wanted only me and he was so sorry and really didn't have feelings for her but was finding it hard, especially in my absence, to get over the close bond he had formed with her after spending so much time together.
- He got very unwell with anxiety, depression and said he was tramatised by the affair and started getting medical treatment for that. They said he had complex PTSD from her abusive behavior and stalking.
- Then he started saying he was confused and was finding it hard to let her go and started craving the psycho AP, even to the point of questioning if he might love her.
He had left his job now and within a couple of weeks he will never see AP again, so he says he loves me and wants to be with me and is trying to work through the mess in his head.
He has mostly stayed away from AP, but he has messaged her a couple of times - once insinuating that he missed her and had feelings for her - which has crushed me beyond belief. AP is a psycho and immediately sent me his messages because she is cruel.
I am now just dumbstruck. I don't understand. I don't understand how he could treat me so badly.
He seems to think he's formed a strong attachment to AP and he is "doing his best" to break it by moving job so he never has to see her again. HE swears it is me he is in love with, but messaging the AP seems a staggering betrayal.
At this point I just have no idea what to think. His AP obviously showered him in attention and affection and when that was withdrawn he had withdrawal from it
What I can't understand at all is how unrecognisable he is. He seems to expect me to just wait around while he resolves feelings for his AP?!
When this journey started we were clear- he loved me and only me. Has anyone else experienced a few months after DDay their WS longing for the AP like this?
I just want to get on with my life away from him now. He is calling and begging and saying he loves me but I think he must just be a terrible person to have done this?
62 comments posted: Tuesday, June 15th, 2021
Addiction to toxic AP question
I have a thread about my failing / failed R with my WH and I am trying to work out what to do. My block on trying R again is not understanding why my WH had such a strong attachment to his AP.
I have read about affair addiction and withdrawal and I could understand this in a logical way if he was in love with her or infatuated with her or even romantically attracted to her; but none of these things were the case based on what both he and the AP have told me.
I'd love to have some input on this question, particularly from any Waywards who have experienced similar in terms of a feeling of addiction to the AP or A even if they knew it was their spouse they loved and wanted.
I have asked him about this, he is as confused as I am. He's been honest with me but the answers don't make sense to either of us. IC has not been much help.
The fact that he felt deep longing for his AP during our R damaged our M more than the A itself because it hurt me so badly that he felt such a deep loss for another woman.
His A happened when I was away studying and we were separated for several months. She was a colleague, then a friend, then it was an EA and eventually a PA.
His words at the time were "It's not love, I was never in love with her. I just miss the feeling of calm and peacefulness I felt sitting talking with her". Or "I am confused about why I feel like I want to talk to someone who's been so horrible to you and me". Or "I don't miss her per se, I just miss that feeling of being happy".
The woman is 16 years older than him and was infatuated by him although he saw her as just a friend (even during the A). She spent a lot of months showering him in compliments, validation, emotional support, telling him he was the most amazing person in the world and acting like all his jokes were funny. He said "It felt nice".
The PA part of the relationship was short (3 months at most). There was no kissing, no handholding, no gazing into each other's eyes with sweet words (AP told me this also). So I have struggled with understanding such a deep attachment to AP if it was not a romantic connection that he felt. It is giving me sleepless nights wondering is he IS in love with her but in denial? I am so confused.
After the PA began I won't go into it but she went from being this idyllic admirer and friend to acting really psychotic.. She turned from Jekyll to Hyde and the situation became quite frightening for him and he tried a lot to end it but found it hard to let her go completely (which I can't understand and neither can he).
In the end she blew up his life by calling me. Even though he picked me and our M. She wouldn't accept it was over for ages and put us both through a lot of stress and pain with a lot of quite psychotic behavior during that part too.
After being obsessively in love with WH like a mad teenager, she was obsessed with someone new in exactly the same way within a few weeks. I think she is a troubled lady.
My problem in the aftermath of this is why the hell did he miss her??? If he was never in love with her, why was he pining and desperate at some stages?
He got what he wanted, which was me and our M, and he never had any doubt over loving me and wanting the M so why did he grieve the loss her her?
He was desperate for these feelings to go and he was confused by them but he couldn't stop it and I feel it killed our M.
I'd love to get help understanding what this was all about. I honestly think if he had been single he still would not have wanted a relationship with this lady but for some reason he developed this addicted bond to her that he allowed to cause us so much pain and destruction and I just do not understand.
63 comments posted: Monday, May 10th, 2021
When the reconciliation goes badly wrong
HIS AFFAIR SUMMARISED
The short version of my husband’s affair is that he formed an emotional affair (he called it friendship) with a much older colleague who was infatuated with him and showered him in compliments and attention.
I was away studying for my masters, we should have been seeing each other every weekend but that was impossible with the virus situation so we barely saw each other during the period of the "friendship" and affair.
After six months of so-called "friendship", this escalated to a PA that went on for about 3 months.
She told him she was in love with him and wanted to be with him, he said he loved his wife and that couldn't happen.
They had a cycle for the entire three months of PA where he'd tell her "this can't happen again" and that he wanted to be with me, but then he was weak and didn't stick with it and they would renew contact.
She decided to call me to spill the beans hoping this would mean he would end the marriage and be with her. It had the opposite effect and he stopped the affair and came begging to me to forgive him.
This all happened about five months ago around Christmas and I was, like everyone else here, absolutely shocked and devastated. I really didn't think he would ever do something like that to me or that he would be capable. I actually thought he worshipped the ground I walked on to be honest.
Initially his "whys" were excuses really. He was drunk. He had been desperate to get out of it but felt trapped. She was manipulative. I was away so long and he just wanted a friend. He was naive. All the classics. Not much self awareness.
After she called me, he was furious at her for ruining his life and he stopped speaking to her completely. She was a colleague but at the time everyone was working from home so he didn't see her for a couple of months.
He spent a lot of time with me, begging for reconciliation, telling me she meant nothing to him and he would do anything fix things. He did all the right things and said all the right things (counselling and so on) but it was pretty short lived.
I have to be fair in saying he did a lot of great things during R such as communicating, changes of lifestyle, emotionally supporting me, apologising constantly and so on, but with hindsight he really wasn't seeing the full picture or ready to do the hard work.
After two months of perfect R, he lost interest in counselling and didn't keep regular appointments, and I noticed he wasn't really doing much "self development". He was still fawning over me and staying away from AP but I felt like he was almost trying to get on as if it never happened.
The perfect R started to implode over about two months. Over time I found that he had trickle truthed me and underplayed the extent of things and what seemed "not so bad" suddenly seemed a lot worse.
His original story was that she was just a friend he sometimes had coffee with and they had sex when he was drunk a handful of times due to his extreme loneliness at the time. He said she meant absolutely nothing to him and he never wanted to lay eyes on her again.
Over many months this changed into the real story, which was that she was a colleague he spent a lot of time having coffees with, and that escalated to lunch every day, coffee after work, going to the gym together, running together and after a few months of that it escalated to evenings together watching movies and having dinner.
Not dates, but just hanging out in a completely inappropriate way on an almost daily basis like she was his substitute wife for the time I was gone! After a few months of evenings together watching movies, eventually there was drunken sex which then happened every time he had a drink.
CONTACT NEVER STOPPED
Aside from the trickle truth, the other big obstacle with reconciliation was that “no contact” went out the window. When he was working from home, he didn't see her, but she carried on messaging him and trying to get in touch. He replied saying he loved me and to leave us alone and he never responded to her messages, but he wouldn't block her. He made excuses for that, but I see now they were complete BS.
She worked with him, so after a couple of months when he went back to work, he saw her every day too. She would not accept the relationship was over, she said she loved him. He kept repeating he did not have feelings for her, but he didn't actually take decisive action to make her stop, even when I begged him to and explained how much it was hurting me.
Yes, I did ask him to change jobs but it took months to find one (he stops working with her in about 6 weeks) so for a very long time I felt like I was just under daily threat and I started to get sick from anxiety (and actually he also did).
I think initially after D Day he was so angry with her for sabotaging his marriage that he didn't want to see her or speak to her, but over time with her constant messages and trying to talk to him at work he started to see her, again, as emotionally damaged and wanted to rescue her and in his crazy mind seemed to think they could be friends.
I can't explain how painful that was for me. He was not only having ongoing contact with her, but also acting like her needs were his responsibility. In the end I got so angry with the ongoing mental trauma that I left. I told him I thought the marriage was over.
He immediately got blind drunk, called OW for comfort with his problems and slept with her again. He confessed to me but after that, trust was shot completely and we were barely talking. I could not understand (even seperated) how he could repeat the action that had caused me so much agony.
AFFAIR FINALLY ENDS CONCLUSIVELY
After I left, he was crying all the time and got really depressed and anxious. He said even if it was over with me he still didn't want to be with OW because he didn't love her, never did and didn't want a life with her. He met with her for a closure talk (at her request) and explained to her that even if we were getting divorced, he still didn't have feelings for her and want to be with her and just didn't share her feelings.
THE OTHER WOMAN
After that, she finally moved on and now she is with someone else she is equally madly in love with. WH has no contact with her anymore aside from work things as necessary. Strangely, she phoned me up last week to apologise for all she had done and she explained that he never persued her, that she had just felt more than he did and she wanted me to know he had never kissed her, never held her hand, never sent her a romantic text. She said he was just kind to her and there was sex sometimes. She said he loved me and had always said that. Which makes it all the more crazy to me that he risked everything on this.
THE WORST BIT
Now this is the part that really started to hurt me....
For some reason, the only way I was mentally clinging on to my M was feeling like he didn't love her and had never experienced infatuation romantically with her, so I was incredibly shocked when after completely ending things with her, he entered into a period of grief where he really missed her and he described it to me as feeling like he was addicted to her.
I really didn’t understand this, but it was incredibly painful to hear and watch. It was like he was heartbroken. He Googled “affair withdrawal” and all this stuff but he said himself he was confused why he felt such a strong attachment to her when he wasn’t in love with her and didn’t want to be with her.
I still can't wrap my head around that at all - why he seemed to be grieving this relationship with someone he didn't want, rather than grieving what he had done to me and his M?!!! He said he couldn't understand it himself, that she just made him feel loved and looked after?!!
With us seperated and her out of the picture finally, he started to do the real work in IC and a lot of analysis and confessions started to come out.
He said he had no intention of having an affair, but he spent a lot of time with her because she was kind, funny, listened to him complain about work, made him feel good and thought he was the best thing since sliced bread.
He said he never wanted her in a romantic way, but the sex thing was quite intense because it would always involve alcohol and her basically being really forward and desperate with him.
He said he'd always intended our R to work out perfectly, and hadn't wanted to ever see her again, but then as things got worse and worse with us, he started craving the “happy feeling” he got with her unbridled adoration of him in contrast to my constant hurt and anger post-affair.
Analysing that with hindsight makes me so furious, because our relationship was in crisis because he cheated and lied and hurt me – and his reaction is to basically want comfort from OW to make him feel loved and heroic again even though she was the cause in the first place!??
Are cheaters all this insanely selfish?!
Over time, the real "whys" came out. She listened to him (don't trip up on my cliche), she was kind to him, she gave him lots of attention, she gave him compliments, he thought it was okay as it was just "friends". He had incredibly low self esteem and FOO issue and he was selfish enough to just want to get needs for validation met by her.
When he digged deeper that that, he worked out she was old enough to be his mother and his own mother rejected him, so feeling loved and wanted by her filled some void of missing mother love. She fed him, cared for him when he was sick, listened to all his problems and made him feel good.
Beyond that, something else was going on. He felt I was too good for him, out of his league and I wanted him but didn't need him and he was insecure about me. Whereas this woman was kind of an emotional train wreck and made him feel like she needed him. Her crying and begging which would seem unattractive to anyone else just re-enforced in his head how much she must love him.
No real explanation was ever given to me about why he was able to be so selfish or why he risked our marriage or my feelings for something that boiled down to just an ego boost. He just said it happened so slowly in increments and it was never his intention.
WHERE WE ARE NOW
So where we are now is really scorched earth. The R we tried, I entered into with so much love and enthusiasm and despite all my pain I put everything into it.
He was too selfish to stop chasing happy hormones from his affair, too cowardly to take decisive action to stop her contact, too weak to do the right thing.
I haven't even had an opportunity to really even begin to heal from DDay, much less all the other bombshells dropped on me and I am left in doubt that WH really loves me.
I am trying to figure out what to do and where to go from here. We had a great M, I can't believe or understand how this really happened. He says "most affairs are a relationship problem, whereas this was entirely a me problem. You and our relationship are perfect, this is my stuff".
I just don't know if too much damage is done now for there to be any hope, or what would be needed for us to find a way back?
16 comments posted: Sunday, May 9th, 2021