The 7 words my wife said to her AP that destroyed me
The moment my wife confessed to having an affair with a coworker was like a dagger was thrust into my heart. Her confession came after the guilt, shame, and the double life she was leading became unbearable for her. My initial feeling was shock, but also relief that the reason behind my wife’s strange behavior was finally out in the open and could be directly confronted. I told her that we could make it through this on the condition that she stopped the affair completely and immediately. She seemed surprised at this, since she had expected me to be glad to have an excuse to get rid of her. My reaction that I’d be willing to give our marriage another chance didnt line up with her expectations on how she thought disclosure would go and the rationalizations she had been making up in her mind in order to justify her betrayal. I was overcome with intense emotions.
What happened next was that I believe she became scared for her personal safety in light of my anger, although I never resorted to violence. She ran into our bathroom and started texting the AP. I took the phone out of her hands to see what was being said. I can’t remember exactly what she had texted him with the exception of the following 7 words which have been indelibly tattooed on the soul of our relationship:
"I love you no matter what happens."
And in those words was a twist of the dagger. The confirmation that she had fallen in love with someone else to a degree that I feel was never once shown to me, and has never since then. I believe that she wrote those words with the thought that there was a possibility that I would end her life out of rage and that those words would be the last romantic words spoken to her lover before she died by the hands of me, the jealous husband.
It’s the sort of thing you say to someone in a life and death crisis, and the sort of thing you mean at the deepest levels of your soul. The depth with which the words were delivered were enormous, and that is what makes them so painful. It’s the kind of meaning and intensity that’s conveyed when you say "I love you" to a loved one on their deathbed, or to your wife or husband as the plane you are on is going down. It’s nowhere close to the routinely casual "I love yous" that are delivered out of habit before we go to bed each night. It’s on a multitude of levels above that in terms of it’s meaning. The extra "no matter what" at the end, can only be taken by me to mean literally that, even after the fog wears off, and even after she says she takes the words back. They can’t be taken back, not ever.
I’ve told her all of this and how I feel about it. I told her I’d like to one day feel the same level of authenticity and intensity when she says she loves me, but it’s impossible. It’s impossible for her to get into that crisis mindset again where the words mean as much as they do. She can act, and she can say the words because I want her to say them. But when she said them to her AP, they were not out of a feeling of obligation. When she says she loves me now, it feels like it’s just to assuage me, and the words always ring hollow.
23 comments posted: Thursday, May 12th, 2022
Been awhile since Ive posted but felt like sharing where I'm at right now.
My 16 year reconciliation journey has gone from bad to good to bad again when all the usual experiences tend to show reconciliation as a process that happens once and it either succeeds or doesn't. Ive heard timeframes for reconciling ranging from 6 months to 4 years, with 2 being about the average, but anything over maybe 5 years being considered in the territory of its probably better to just D of you haven't gotten over it. This puts me well past the high water mark for reconciliation but with an asterisk considering roughly 14 years of those past 16 years Id say have been "OK" and bearable.
Back in 2005 my WW had a 6 month long full blown EA/PA with a coworker whom she thought she was going to leave me for but then found out he wasn't the guy she had made him out to be. I was somehow able to put it behind me and work on the issues in our marriage that had contributed to her feeling like I "didn't like her". Our marriage has been everything I hoped it would be sans her infidelity which she views as a huge mistake. The pain from her A never left me and never will, but for the most part it had faded and wasn't something I thought about very much or when I did think about it, I didn't feel a need to bring it up with her.
Last November, I experienced a strong trigger event which prompted me to want to talk about and explore her A some more and this has unexpectedly caused me to get into a pattern of rumination leading to resentment and second guessing my decision to reconcile after all these years. In addition it seems to have caused my brain to be rewired so that I am thinking about the A again quite often and there are more triggers now than there were before. There are these two conflicting parts of me that feel differently about reconciling at this time. One side is focused on the hurtful details of her A, is unable to forgive the betrayal, and wants to separate to see how it would feel to date someone that hasn't ever cheated on me (she was also my first GF). This side also says F the kids and my WW's feelings because the breaking of her vows and the level of deceit was so bad that it cuts down to the spiritual level for me and its simply unacceptable. The other side thinks this idea would be an absolute tragedy for everyone involved, is nonsense, scary, and thinks the opposing side of me is an a-hole for changing course after so many years when there are now kids involved and years have been taken off my WWs life which could have been spent with someone that she hadn't betrayed. This is the side that wants to view our love as having the ability to withstand such a heavy blow and being graced with the power of forgiveness. My anxiety about our relationship has shot way up and Ive appeared at times over the past 4 months to be very clingy and always requiring reassurances. We also went from having sex once a week to minimum of five times a week in a sort of revived hysterical bonding phase. This clinginess is interspersed with feelings of resentment, hurt and bitterness which she picks up on easily despite me trying to conceal it.
New questions constantly pop into my head that I didn't think to ask her before. I'm not even sure why I feel the need to continue asking questions but I think its because I keep hoping that the answers will lead me to the right decision - either to stay or separate. At first I would make lists of these questions and then we would go over them almost every night with her for a few weeks, and then it lessened to maybe once or twice a week for a few months after that. After a few months of this, I could tell that I was wearing her thin and she was feeling very beat up emotionally. Basically she feels like she cant do anything right and nothing is ever "good enough" for me. I feel like she lacks empathy as well as initiative and I am left not feeling "satisfied" with her answers because she will often deflect or tell me why I shouldn't feel some way. In an effort to get her to be better at this I had her read a book on infidelity, had her do several "writing assignments" designed to help her empathize more, among other things that she is doing to try and help me come to a place of acceptance within reconciliation but this hasn't really helped much. We had a big blow up in early April after I had returned from a trip to our old hometown (where her A took place) and she broke down and asked me to just drown her in the lake by our house, screamed, cried, etc. It was a wake up call moment which made me think to myself that I need to cool it on the questioning if I want to have a chance at keeping our marriage intact. At this point, Ive stopped talking about her A almost entirely because its reached the point where she now views any further questioning of her as proof that I have not forgiven her and she is growing more and more skeptical that it's even possible for me to forgive her despite when I say I do. If I cant forgive her and get over it, she says its not fair to either of us to remain in the marriage. I have told her I do forgive her and now she is saying the proof of that is if I don't keep "confronting" her about it. Confronting to her seems to mean asking any questions about it or bringing it up.
Im not sure what to think or do at this point. Maybe I'll just never feel satisfied and thats as good as its going to get but if thats the case I kind of feel like leaving. I feel like if I knew the whole truth (which I never will) and was there like a fly on the wall to see every last thing they did and said to each other, I'd be gone for sure. Just like I'd probably be gone if I could read her mind. So me staying just seems like Im burying my head in the sand trying to ignore the gravity and scope of her betrayal, but staying and trying to just put it back into the recesses of my mind seems like the easiest and most comfortable way forward.
15 comments posted: Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022
Is anyone here a web/app designer or developer or know of one who's been touched by infidelity?
Im a website developer who's launched a successful internet company and I have an idea for a new business. Im looking for someone who's been affected by infidelity (wayward or betrayed) and with skills in website/app design, front end UX, and/or cross platform mobile app development. If you know of anyone who fits that description I would love to have a quick discussion. Thx!!
1 comment posted: Wednesday, March 2nd, 2022
When is it appropriate to hold in your thoughts and feelings as a BS
Some of you may already know my story. Ive been dealing with a flare up after 16 years as a result of a sequence of triggers and learning a little bit of new info about my fWWs A that I didn't know before. Nothing major, but painful new details nonetheless. This as well as some of the way my fWW has reacted has set me back in my recovery. Now, I had a good run of 15 years of this not being an issue, and not affecting my day or our relationship in the least. Truly past it. What I did to achieve this was that at some point I stopped talking about it and forbade it as a subject.
Now, my question to you is, when is it appropriate to stop talking about the "events" with your fWW? If a thought crosses your mind, or if you spent all day writing posts about it on the internet, do you share that with your WW? Or do you keep quiet? On one hand, they say it's healthy to be open about what you're feeling. On the other, I think if I force myself to just stop talking about it with my fWW that it should die off like it did the first time and thats what I want.
32 comments posted: Saturday, February 19th, 2022
My fWW is a pushover
Ive noticed a personality trait in my fWW that she still has to this day and is one which I believe to be a factor in her A. The trait Im talking about is she is very easy to influence.
Her A with a coworker for example, was primarily the scumbag AP pressuring her into it. Im not trying to make excuses for her, but thats just a fact. He was the instigator, and actually read books on how to seduce women. It was literally his hobby and he got off on the conquest of my dumb-as-a-doorbell, completely unworthy wife. She went with it, let him screw her repeatedly, no condom, including doing it on our couch while I wasn't home, despite her saying she felt super uncomfortable about it and feeling like it was disrespectful (lol, ya think???)
She said she let him because he wouldn't not let her and he originally wanted to do it on our bed but she 'convinced him' to only do it on our couch.
Now, fast forward to today, she still has the same problem. She has a support network of her toxic sister, cousin and Mom/Dad. They're all assholes in some way shape or form. They'll say stuff like I should be over this by now, that I must have some mental disorder to keep bringing it up this long afterwards, and so on, and she feeds off this and goes with it. It's as if she has no original thoughts. She employs several people at her company, and her employees regularly disrespect her openly to her face and others, she takes it and doesn't correct them. Doesn't want to "rock the boat" she says.
For once in her life it would be great to see her stick up for me or herself for that matter. What can be done?
18 comments posted: Wednesday, February 16th, 2022
WW's mindset at the time of her affair
I consider us reconciled, and my WWs affair was 16 years go, but I’ve been asking her a ton of questions about her affair recently, one of which was would she still have had the affair if her AP had been married (he was single). Her answer was a firm "no way, I would never do that to another woman". I then said "So you would have a moral problem hurting a stranger but not your own husband?" her response was to immediately back peddle and she said something like "Maybe I would have I don’t know. I’m going to have to think about that".
I then also asked her if she would have had the affair if her AP had been clear up front that he liked her and showered her with praise, but that it could only be about the sex. Her answer again was a firm "no way". So then I responded "So basically you were looking for qualities of a stable long term mate to replace me with".
So today I gained a bit more insight into her mindset at the time of her affair. Her deceitful plan was to try and make it seem like we broke up naturally and then make it look like her affair was a relationship that started after we split up. But her plan feel apart, she confessed and her AP was exposed cheating on her with multiple other women. The cheater got cheated on and I took her back like a pathetic cuck and gave her a stable long term relationship, support and love to this day.
I told her that her plan to make it seem like a rebound relationship wouldn't have worked anyway because because she gave me genital warts and I hadn’t ever slept with anyone else. Kinda have to be sleeping with him and me the same time for that to happen.
Having a bit of a shit start to the day with these thoughts.
42 comments posted: Wednesday, January 26th, 2022
Do you still celebrate your original anniversary, or does it symbolize a hollow promise?
My wife broke her vows, but we have continued to celebrate the date each year. I have looked at it as "we got through some tough times". But now, Im starting to view it as a symbol of broken promises.
18 comments posted: Tuesday, January 11th, 2022
Obsessing over "what ifs"
I've been having obsessive thoughts about what ifs lately and its been 16 years since my WW's affair with a coworker.
My wife decided to let her affair partner go and stay in our marriage and Im very thankful for that. The decision to lose her AP was gut wrenching for her and there was about 3 months where neither of us knew if our marriage would survive.
Whenever I ask about what made her decide to be with me, she cites that she started to see cracks in the AP's character. He told her that he didn't have any STDs (but he did), and then he told her that he had gotten an STD test at her request but lied about that too and later even told her that he lied. He also lied about him not having a girlfriend when they met (he played the "poor me" game, but he was dating at least one other girl and neither of them knew about the other). But, other than all of that, AP was apparently a much funner, flirtier person that was just way more in tune with her character and more attentive in every way than I was.
So, back to "what ifs". The bad thought I am struggling with, is that the REASON why she chose us has nothing to do with me and everything to do with her AP having flaws. I want her to say that the reason she decided Im her one, is because of ME. But if her AP hadn't been a liar and instead had been completely sincere, then the fact is that she wouldn't have had any reason to stay in our marriage. This then makes me think if Mr Really-better-than-me ever DOES come around, then that would be it. Our relationship is just based on that she cant find anyone better, but if she could, then vows be damned, that would be it for me.
50 comments posted: Sunday, January 9th, 2022
Did your APs spouse ask you for details
Are there any wayward spouses on here who received letters or emails from the betrayed spouse that you would be willing to share here in any level of detail or via private message? If so, did you choose to respond and what was your response to the injured spouse?
The reason Im asking is that Id like to ask my wifes AP some questions for closure and Im looking to see what works and what doesnt when approaching an AP. Please
dont bother trying to convince me that contacting them is a bad idea. Ive already made up my mind to
1 comment posted: Wednesday, January 5th, 2022
Does it sound like my wife really owns up to her actions here?
Ive seen a lot of betrayeds that have said a critical component of achieving healing and reconciliation was that their WW/WH took full responsibility for their affairs and wanted to get some opinions on how my WW has responded in this area and if you think she has more work to do
For context, we are 16 years post d-day and have stuck together. I wont say we have fully reconciled although for long period of time in between I saw it as though we were.
Whenever we come to a discussion of WHY she did what she did, she has always cited issues earlier in our marriage as one of the primary reasons for her being susceptible to the affair. She said that at the time, she didn't feel wanted, that I was overly critical, and that she believed that I wouldn't even care once I had found out and would be glad to have an excuse to get rid of her. I don't disbelieve her on this, because at the time of the affair, I was in fact devoting a lot of my energy and attention to racing motorcycles competitively. I was also resentful that she didn't support me in this pursuit and saw it as a problem rather than something that brought me a lot of joy, self confidence, and was the fulfillment of a dream for me. However, I wouldn't say that our marriage was horrible. There was no abuse, there was a sex life, we had fun times, and I also made a lot of sacrifices for her prior to her affair.
Now I know what you are all probably thinking, she's blame shifting, cheaters handbook, etc, but she has also said many times that she does take responsibility for her actions and that the choice to engage in the affair was hers and hers alone. She's called it the biggest mistake of her life and has given me no reason to believe she's ever cheated since. She has expressed regret. But she says that it would have been HARDER for the affair to have happened if I had behaved differently at that time and not been so obsessed with my racing or been so critical of her and had paid her more attention and affection.
Is this just an honest assessment of the state of our marriage at that time which led to her being more primed for an affair and something we should both reflect on, or does this sound like continued blame shifting on her part?
36 comments posted: Tuesday, December 14th, 2021
Question for Wayward Wives.
Trigger warning some of this is sexually explicit.
Since my WW will never be completely honest about what it was like for her when she first had sex with her AP out of a desire to not to hurt my feelings, Im coming here to get answers from other wayward women.
Id like to know how it was for you when you first had sex with your AP. What went through your mind, was it the best, most exciting and most passionate sex you've ever had? Were you wracked with guilt, and was it better because of that? Was it not as good as sex with your H. Did your AP "help" you to take it there by being forceful in any way or allow you the dignity to "fake resist"?
My wife's AP held her hands down when he first penetrated her, I believe as a way to make her more comfortable with what she was doing morally. You see, by doing so, he helped her tell herself a story that she wasn't fully at fault. By the end, Im convinced that it was the most intensely passionate and pleasurable sex she has ever and will ever have. She told me she came without a vibrator (she's not been able to ever do that with me), and he came three separate times (Im always one and one). They say that pleasure is mainly in the mind, and Im sure that the whole "forbidden fruit" aspect combined with the novelty and excitement was just the biggest rush ever for both of them.
So was affair sex just insanely fantastic? Please be honest in your responses so that I might understand my wife's true experience.
1 comment posted: Friday, December 10th, 2021