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Ok, this is for those of you who are currently reconciling or are reconciled (congrats!!!). My H and I are currently 7 months our from D-Day and things are going well. I am in IC and we are both doing MC. My question is, how do you get past never knowing the truth or at least thinking that there is more. My H had an EA with a co-worker, it lasted for more than a year. I am almost 100% sure that is became physical because of the evidence that I have and the fact that I know my H. He denies it and always has, but I think he would rather take it to his grave than tell me. To him, a PA is the ultimate betrayal, to me the EA was more devastating. I have told him that I am not leaving, I'm here for the long haul, but my gut tells me there is more. So, back to my question, how do I get past it? I want to believe him, but can't. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.

Your H needs to give you the whole truth. A good marriage is built on honesty, and after this nightmare, honesty is the foundation to rebuilding your M and regaining some of the trust.

I am four years out and just got most of the truth, it has been excruciating, I think more devastating than the A itself. I personally believe the faster they come clean, the faster one can begin to heal.

I often feel this way, like there's more to it than I have been told. But the simple fact of the matter is that even if I didn't have a reason, however slim, to think there was more to it, I would probably still think there was more to it. I think maybe it has to do with being trickle-truthed. I got so used to being lied to that now her honesty is suspect. Part of me will never trust again. Fortunately, that isn't the part in charge.

I choose to look at her actions. Those are honest and are a much better indicator...

I agree...until your WS comes totally clean, IMHO there is no "real" reconciliation--you can't reconcile on lies. I've told my WS many times that while the truth hurts, it only hurts once while lies can hurt forever.

If you have evidence, show him and or tell him (if you haven't already). Keep reassuring him you won't leave--but also let him know that you *have* to know the total truth, or all the work you've both done will be in vain.

(((good luck)))

I don;t think you do get past not knowing the truth, if it is something as serious as whether it was physical relationship or not.

That is a very fundamental thing, and you should have the right to make any decision about your future based on truth.

It is one thing to not have the whole truth about specific details, but to not know whether it was physical or not.

Apart from anything else, if it ws physical then you need to be checked for STD's EVEN if they used condoms.

I could have written your post word for word. My FWH has had total remorsse since DDay. We are married 31 years and it has been 11 months since Dday. He has been the perfect husband ever since...NC...transparent...sincere. He swore for 9 months it was only yearlong EA. There was much trickle truth. I knew that if it was PA he would take it to his grave. After 9 months I made him take a poly fulle thinking he would probably pass and we could move on. He failed. After a weekend of grueling marathon interrogations he finally admitted it was PA. To this day he still swears it was petting and a failed attempt at oral but no intercourse. Part of me believes him but I will never know for sure. My IC has told me over and over that most men will admit to everything but intercourse. I know my FWH considders sex the ultimate betrayal but I have nothing left in my bag of tricks to get the rest of the story if indeed they did have sex. Our R is going well but I will always wonder. Make him take a poly. It was probably PA.

Thanks for everyone's replies. I am seeing IC today and am going to bring it up to him again, although I know he doesn't really support me on this. He believes my H and says that I should look at his actions NOW not then. It's hard.

MET- Thanks for your input, just reading your reply made me sick to my stomache. I think I know in my heart that it was a PA, but need to hear him say it, otherwise I feel like I am going crazy sometimes. Thanks again to everyone. :)

Gosh- I feel like I could be the one writing this!

I feel it in my heart that things got physical, but H believes sex is the ultimate betrayal and that I will leave.

He shows remorse and seems to be doing all the things he can to make it work- but my gut screams that there is more. I don't have 100% proof, but I know my H and things have changed overnight (in our intimacy, new things after so many years).

When you figure out how to get past that feeling- please let me know. It makes me feel crazy as well.

doesitend- I will.

I trust my gut.

I believe that there was more.

I tell him that I believe that there was more, and also that he is choosing not to tell me because he is afraid I will leave. I have told him that whatever truth he needs to tell me about pre-d-day, he can.

He says I know everything, and I have since a few weeks from d-day.

Fact is - I don't believe him. Nor do I want to believe him, because that would make me partner in the deception, kwim?

I don't believe that he has given me the full truth about his escapades into adultry, and that his reason for this is his own toxic shame.

Would him healing from this shame be better for both of us? Yes. However, healing from the pain of believing that you are worth less than a pile of crap to the people who are supposed to love you the most - well, that is a big pain to heal my friend.

In my opinion, and in my situation, the only thing that will help my H heal, and help us have a better M, is patience, and understanding, and introspection...for both of us.

In seeing the pain my H has, I see my own.

No one has ever revealed it in a clearer light.

I will be real here, if he cheated AGAIN, there would be no second chance. He cheated with multiple OW...over two years ago...for who knows how long.

In my gut, I know there was more.

In my gut, I also know that he is working towards being the best man he can possibly be, and that he loves me.

In my gut, I also believe that he is being faithful, and observing boundaries, and living his life as a committed partner should, NOW.

Trust your gut. If things don't add up, there is probably more. If your IC is telling you what you need to move forward and heal, I'd dump him. I stopped going to MC after a few visits because I disagreed with the MC on this issue. If my child died, should I just accept that fact that he's dead and not concern myself with what happened - sorry no cigar. I can handle the truth, I can't handle lies or letting my mind wonder about the unknown. I NEEDED to know. Not knowing would have been a whole other layer of torture. Get what you need to heal.

blindsided, I hear you!

To him, a PA is the ultimate betrayal, to me the EA was more devastating.

And therein lies much of the problem of any affair. The way it is processed internally.

Women tend to view EA's as a total vacating of all they held dear, that this OW got everything you ever desired, the emotional connection as well as the sex (if that is the case).

Men, tend to fear that if their S's find out there was sex, the S will bolt and never look back.

Men value sex much more than emotions, they can separate the two so easily.

What a WS forgets, clearly, that any transgression is wrong, that one is not worse than the other in the impact it leaves behind.

ONS, EA, PA, they are all devastating and to think that not telling the truth, the whole truth, is going to save them in any way, is a mistake of the highest order.

It will undermine any work over time, for the truth always manages to find a way to the surface, at the most inopportune time.

The truth will set you both free. My FWW did not confess all until 11 months after d-day. When she did that she says a HUGE weight lifted from her shoulders. It has taken me some time to come to terms with the whole story but since that time there has been so much progress compared to the time she was hiding things. We are open and honest with eachother and we have rediscovered our intamacy and passion. I still trigger, as does she, we still have a ways to go but all in all I can honestly say that our relationship is now better than it ever was. I don't hink that would be possible without the whole truth comming out. She has committed to me that she will hide nothing. Time, truth and doing the right things heals. Time alone, with unaswered questions is a rot that destroys. God bless!

Oh my, I had to double check that I didnt write your post. I soooo understand where you are coming from. I sometimes feel like if WH dont tell me the truth then he is deciding what is best for me and the rest of my life. Obviously he wasnt looking out for my best interests when he had A. I have had to dig to find out everything that I do know. He offers nothing just says I know everything. My gut dont believe it. After being lied to for so long I just cant get past not knowing. After all that is happened, and as much as I dont want to think of him with someone else, I think if he admitted it to me I may be able to start healing from this. Sounds crazy, but then I wouldnt feel like he is still walking around with "secrets". We are trying to R and things go good for awhile then the triggers happen and I fall 5 steps back. It has been 10 months. I really dont know what I am suppose to do either. If you find the magic answer please send it my way.

Blindsided- Count me in - I am almost 6 years out and still would like to hear the complete truth I really think it was PA. He will take it to the grave.

I try to stay in the NOW and see how hard he tries to be the husband/father and that helps me get past those awful feelings/triggers.

He does know that any form of affair now would be the end.

It is heartbreaking to think it was a PA but the EA sent me over the edge ....

I am surprised to see how many of us go thru this not knowing and if only our FWS would just put an end to our torture ugh!

((( to all)))

Funny my H actually painted a worse picture than what really happened. I think he was looking to hurt me. They attempted to have sex but no penetration as neither were "aroused enough" (ow words) in the only time they connected that way. Took him 9 months to admit the no penetration part. Almost worse no? Who does that.... tries to make it sound worse than it was. Drives me nuts. He still hides things though. Most of the email porn stuff over weeks he has condensed into one or two scenarios (had to be way more). Doesn't remember or so he says. Thoughts? Is he just mean or nuts?

I wish I had some tips, but, I think I just reached a saturation point where I just decided to compartmentalize my belief that he did a lot more than what I have evidence for and that he will admit. That is the only way I can keep moving forward at this point. My FWSO would have denied his A being a PA too, except he was stupid enough (thankfully) to take cameraphone pics. The other women that I don't have graphic evidence for, he denies that they were PA's..."just words" in his words! Yeah right...anyway..

I compartmentalize the anger at not knowing, and I flat out told him what I believe and that I wasn't going to believe him about the past. I also try to just be in the present and watch for signs. I try to focus on the current good stuff instead of the questions I have and the information I want to have.

Compartmentalizing is not good sometimes though because it just festers inside waiting to explode. (Um yeah I won't say what happened the other night when I exploded in verbal rage)

I do think it is possible to not have the whole truth and R, but the WS has to do a lot of self work too...to at least know why they did it. Now, I don't know about long term R without the whole truth, as we have only been at this 6 months. Also, I think it is harder for the BS, I feel like I go backwards when I think about what I think I don't know.

It seems like most IC don't think you need the whole truth, mine told me that studies show it is harder to get over the images if you know too much. I don't think my IC has been betrayed before...or she would understand.

I feel that there is more to the A than I know or will ever know. H is totally remorseful and acting wonderfully. I have decided that it doesn't really matter if they had sex 5 times or 50 times the hurt is the same.

For an entire YEAR after Dday, my gut told me there was more. My H looked me in the eye every time I told him I thought there was more and swore that he had told me the truth. Sometimes he even became angry with me.

On the first year out from Dday, I told him I had emailed the OW because I didn't believe him. Funny thing, he FINALLY came clean. He said he wasn't sure what she might tell me, and he would rather I hear the truth from him. No shit, Shylock! Wasn't that what I had practically begged for the entire previous year?!?

Maybe what I was most angry at was myself for not listening enough to my gut and being willing to suspend my gut's message and give him the benefit of the doubt.

H finally understood that continued lying WOULD end our marriage and that true healing couldn't begin until he took full responsibility for his actions. He accepted and understood that while he told himself he was lying to protect ME, in reality he was lying to protect HIMSELF. He was terrified that if I knew the whole truth I would leave him.

Just my story. I know that sometimes WS are telling the truth, but we have been lied to so much that it's "the boy who cried wolf" in a way and we find believing them almost impossible.

Sigh. Affairs so screw up everyone they involve.

Thanks again for all of the posts. I saw IC today and he still believes H (he's known him for 6 months, I've known him for 29 years) anyway, he said that I need to figure out what I need to get relief from this feeling that I don't have the whole truth. I have no idea how to do that. I've thought about contacting the OW and talking to her to see if she would give me any info, but not sure I could do it especially since they still work together. I just wish H would realize how important the truth is and how much knowing would help me. Thanks again for everyone's input.