SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am having difficulty getting through to my WW on the whole A.

The whole story is played out on several of my postings. My questions boil down the following:

1) Did you initially blame your BH for the affair? Even though it was based soley on your own insecurities?

2) What did it take to bring you around to reality? Is there anything that I can do to assist my WW with a reality check?

3) Infidelity runs in her family, and lack of responsibility is entrenched in her genes. Am I wasting my time?

4) What finally brought on real remorse, and the realization of the destruction you really brought upon your BH, your kids, and your family?

3) Infidelity runs in her family, and lack of responsibility is entrenched in her genes

Not a WW, but a BW.

Nonetheless, will simply ask you to consider your statement # 3 above.

Without commenting on degree of accuracy, it appear that you yourself need to consider whether someone you percieve in this light has any chance of making you believe she has reformed? There is no information in your signature, so not sure how new you are to D-day, or what happened. Just think about what # 3 means (not in terms of her guilt, but in terms of your own belief system).

Finally - if you factually and emotionally have always believe # 3, then no there is no hope for you. But only b/c You yourself do not have it.

I give you my thoughts...hopefully they help:

1. Yes. My FWH did blame me and THIS IS NORMAL. It's part of the fog. In fact, I would wager to say he feels I drove him to it. In his foggy mind I was 100% to blame and should thank my lucky stars he didn't just dump my ass.

2. The 180 is your friend. If a new reality is what your WW wants, then give it to her. Let her know what this new reality looks like...as she is staring at your backside going out the door. A WS needs to understand they are not living in reality and you can assist them in learning it but standing up for yourself, deciding what your will and will not tolerate. The rest is up to them.

3. Infidelity runs in her family? Hmmmm..... Lack of responsiblity entrenched? Hmmmmm...... I am going to argue that lack of responsibility is NOT the issue but lack of accountability is. Understand the difference.

4. Based on conversations with FWH I would say when he realized he was going to lose his family. When he *decided* he was better than the double life he was living. He fought back hard.....not so much for his family.....but more for himself. He was *better* that *that cheating guy*.

hugs.

I, myself wonder about #3. My WH was raised by his grandparents and his grandfather was a cheater...and the grandmother put up with it for over 40 years. They are now divorced.

WH's mother is also a cheater..on her 5th marriage.

He does have Aunts and Uncles that helped raise him the are NOT cheaters and have been married for 20+ years.

So I wonder if this is a pattern? I will NOT put up with him cheating again..EVER and I think he knows that. I don't want to say that people ALWAYS follow in their parents (or in his case his grandparents) footsteps...there are lots of qualities that I certainly did not inherit from my parents. So it would be unfair to say that people always do what they see growing up.

It's so hard not to think that way. I wish I had a crystal ball for the future!

3) Infidelity runs in her family, and lack of responsibility is entrenched in her genes. Am I wasting my time?

My FWW's parents had an open marriage in the 70s (real swingers) and two years ago celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary. My FWW said that was part of her justification/rationalization for her A. If her parents could have multiple A's and still be happily married, then maybe she could too. It also played into her thinking (at the time) that as long as she wasn't having an exit affair or a revenge affair, then it was not so bad to cheat on me. After DDay #1, when FWW asked me for an open marriage (just prior to DDay #2), she spoke at length of her parents' multiple A's and how they were still together.

I agree it has is part of the reason why some people do cheat. If they see one of their 'role models' 'get away' with it...then they think they can too.

My WH's grandfather for instance...serial cheater is a nice way to put how he was. I don't blame the grandmother for his behavior AT ALL...but in a way she 'allowed' him to do it. She was well aware of some if not most of his affairs. He had a LTA with a woman (who he is now living with) and she was well aware of it. It's almost like she turned her cheek the other way.

Like I said - I don't blame her for his affairs at all...but come on. Just sitting back KNOWING what he was doing and putting up with it?

I say if it happens again - I'm gone. LONG GONE! No turning back. WH is well aware of this. So if he decides to do it again, then he decides the M is over. Bottom line. It will be HIS loss.

1) Did you initially blame your BH for the affair? Even though it was based soley on your own insecurities?

Yes, I told myself he wasn't being a good-enough husband or father. I felt lonely and instead of going to him and telling him how I felt, I felt a sense of entitlement and thought I could seek contentment/thrills elsewhere.

2) What did it take to bring you around to reality? Is there anything that I can do to assist my WW with a reality check?

BH didn't do the 180 but until he put his foot down and demanded what he needed and stayed firm, I stayed foggy. Once I realized he'd leave me if I didn't 'shit or get off the R pot', I put my efforts for R into high gear.

3) Infidelity runs in her family, and lack of responsibility is entrenched in her genes. Am I wasting my time?

I don't think so. But, IMO, you need to look at-is she willing to put in the work and effort that is needed for R. She will show you with her actions if she has it in her. I hate generalizations, and just because it's in her family, etc., doesn't mean she can't buck the trend. But...you have to keep your eyes open and see what she's willing to do to fix herself.

4) What finally brought on real remorse, and the realization of the destruction you really brought upon your BH, your kids, and your family?

Reading SI, therapy, lots of communicating with BH. BH's getting tough with me, and letting me know every day the pain he was in.

Did you initially blame your BH for the affair? Even though it was based soley on your own insecurities?

Yes, I blamed BH for making me feel rejected and unhappy in our marriage.

What did it take to bring you around to reality? Is there anything that I can do to assist my WW with a reality check?

Talking to BH a lot after DDay of PA and seeing how much pain he was going thru made me realized how much he loved me. His shock and increasingly leaning toward D made me think very hard about what I could do to save our M because I realized how important he and our M is to me. It was a combination of BH's pain and continued gestures of love toward me when I broke down crying everyday that made me understand I was hurting him more by blaming him, and reading SI helped me remove the blame language when talking to BH.

Infidelity runs in her family, and lack of responsibility is entrenched in her genes. Am I wasting my time?

It's true that a person's upbringing has a significant influence on one's character, but no one is bound to behave like her parents or family members. My BH's mother was a WW, and he grew up in a broken family, but it only made him more committed to staying true in our marriage. I came from a family with no divorce history or A, and I thought I could never go wrong, but I never looked deep at my poor communication skills and selfishness until it led me deep down the hell of A. It's a person's strong sense of morals and committment to be faithful that keeps one from going wrong, not one's family history.

What finally brought on real remorse, and the realization of the destruction you really brought upon your BH, your kids, and your family?

Real remorse was what motivated me to confess on DDay. My remorse was deepened when I saw how much BH struggled with the pain and disappointment of my betrayal, and my DD's talk of let's move back to the city we used to live in and live together in our old house. Sometimes she would pull my hand and pull me next to BH. Her innocent face and wish for her family to be together without all the fighting breaks my heart. What finally made me come clean on everything was sensing that BH was ready to R. I looked at the love in his eyes and decided that the guilt would kill me if I let him live a lie not knowing everything. We're now heading to D after my total confession, but BH deserves complete truth to base his decision on, and I feel sad but free to not have to tell another lie ever again.

This quote by C.S. Lewis really opened my eyes and help me decide the right thing to do:

"Love is not affectionate feeling, but a steady wish for the loved person's ultimate good as far as it can be obtained."

I asked myself if I was behaving in a way that express real love toward my BH, and the answer became clear. Perhaps your WW can do some thinking around that.

1) Did you initially blame your BH for the affair? Even though it was based soley on your own insecurities?

Actually, he blamed himself far more than I blamed him. He felt that if he had been there for me I would not have turned to someone else. He wanted to hear from me what I felt was missing in our marriage. We read many books about affairs and he realized that he was not to blame, but he also realized that we were both to blame for the state of our marriage, equally.

I just want to point out that my H willing to take some of the blame, helped our marriage very much.

Your comment that 'even though it was based soley on your own insecurities' probably will not help you to communicate with her. Sometimes listening to each other, even when you disagree, helps with understanding. And the reality can come gradually as you discuss your feelings in depth.

Maybe find out why your H feels you are to blame. If she is able to talk about this to you without judgement, she may come to the realization herself that it is untrue.

4) What finally brought on real remorse, and the realization of the destruction you really brought upon your BH, your kids, and your family?

Well, I felt that right away. But, the love and forgiveness I felt from all of them helped me to see that even more.

1) Did you initially blame your BH for the affair? Even though it was based soley on your own insecurities

Yes. I convinced myself he didn't care about me anymore. I blamed his binge drinking and job issues. I blamed his lack of interest in sex. I felt rejected and criticized.

2) What did it take to bring you around to reality? Is there anything that I can do to assist my WW with a reality check?

Well, OM dumped me for one. But I remained foggy through some continued contact with him. The NC helped open my eyes.

Here was the other huge thing...I saw that BH was so hurt and angry, yet he didn't wallow. He worked out and started making contingency plans. I know he was just doing this to survive, but he was so obviously more "put together" than me. Then he did a few things that still put me first, he was so kind, and I realized how wrong I was. (BTW his rage stage came later).

3) Infidelity runs in her family, and lack of responsibility is entrenched in her genes. Am I

wasting my time

No. This isn't diabetes or heart disease. Gimme a break. By the way, I come from a long line of faithful marriages in my lineage.

4) What finally brought on real remorse, and the realization of the destruction you really brought upon your BH, your kids, and your family?

Time. And re-engaging in my M. Once I started to see my BH's pain, allow myself to feel it, and to feel empathy....that was it. That took over a year, BTW.

[This message edited by Mrs Panda at 7:19 PM, September 8th (Wednesday)]

1) Did you initially blame your BH for the affair? Even though it was based solely on your own insecurities?

Yes, while I was in the A.

2) What did it take to bring you around to reality? Is there anything that I can do to assist my WW with a reality check?

For me, it was a process. There was an occasion around a month before D-Day, when BH sat me down and explained to me that I was emotionally abusing him (I really treated him horribly during my sojourn to A-land.) That was an important conversation for me at the time. Then, D-Day, followed by the several weeks it took for the fog to really burn off. BH was in *agony* and he let me see that, but he also made it pretty damn clear that he expected me to put my big girl panties on and get to work.

3) Infidelity runs in her family, and lack of responsibility is entrenched in her genes. Am I wasting my time?

Heh. Everyone can choose to be more than the sum of what they learned in childhood.

4) What finally brought on real remorse, and the realization of the destruction you really brought upon your BH, your kids, and your family?

For me, I had to be able to start moving past my own massive toxic shame and self-loathing. I mean, I felt Really Really Bad about having the A, but the hard part for me is to really look at that and work through it. Remorse is supposed to be a constructive thing.