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I ask my h for more clarification on his feelings for ow..on what was said between them. He tells me I'm making it n2 more than it was that he lied 2 her and didn't love her only liked her and wanted to fu¤ck her & used her as an escape from all his problems and feelings of unhappiness..I consider spendind time w/some1 texting emailing talking for 2mo. And then fu¤king them for another 3mo. Even though it was sporadically, 5-6 sexual encounters over the last 3mo. Of affair a relationship! From beging 2 end of his 2nd EA w/this woman which led into a PA was 6mo...to me that's along time..he acts like all that time they talked about nothing. Says he can't remember why does it matter..swears he never talked about me becuz ow would get upset an jealous & said he never said bad things about me 2 her becuz he loved me and wouldn't say bad things about me to her...I feel like he is full of shit..for 3mo. I keep asking cuz I don't believe him..I tell him I think he is minimizing 2 make the affair seem less like a relationship and 2 not hurt or upset me!I feel like he will never share with me the true depth of his feelings for her :( I believe. Now he doesn't like her or want her but it was obvious that he enjoyed fu¤king her for 3mo. and continued 2 have sex with me..he never went without..yet I did..I guess I should b greatful he wouldn't go straight from her to me when he came home..he did that 2 her though how can people b so f'd up

Translation--I don't want to talk about it.

Ya know what? too bad! You want to talk about it.

I don't think I'd call what you're doing over analyzing but I do think that as BS's we spend quite a bit of time trying to figure out how and why this happened, the only way we can do that is by asking lots of questions.

I also think that our frame of reference isn't always a valid way to interpret the A. If you've never had an A the only thing you can compare it to is a relationship. But it really isn't for most WS's. It's based on a lot of lies, it's about manipulating each other to get the response they want, it's about that feeling of being desired, not about building love, respect or anything respembling a real relationship. In fact, if I had to compare an A to anything I'd compare it to alcohol for an alcoholic. Or some other addiction. I think many WS's get addicted to that feeling of being desired, they'll do anything to keep that feeling going.

I do agree there is more to share, I think your H is deciding what you need to know and don't but I also think that he maybe telling you the truth when he expresses that this wasn't about love and it wasn't a relationship in the way you are describing.

The biggest issue to me is that your H understands why he needed to feel the way she made him feel so much? And what he's going to do to handle those feelings in the future, b/c they don't just go away. If he is insecure or doesn't feel lovable, he's going to feel that way again, until he figures out a way to do that for himself. Until then he's going to keep looking to you or to anyone else to fix him and it just doesn't work that way.

Thank you for the eye opening post once again Mepe. I've had these very same issues in regards to the 'connection' of WS's A as what Sunflowergirl describes. Although my WS has opened up some about it with TT, he still spits acid when discussing it and thinks he shouldn't have to say a thing.

(((Sunflowergirl))) I know what you're going through gal. Mepe hit the nail on the head with this. In one discussion with my WS I even told him that he needed to figure these things out after he'd told me he didn't even want to think about them. I gave him the very same reasoning that Mepe has just described here; that if he doesn't do this it just means he'll repeat history.

Its pretty hard to "over analyze" when he screams

"YEAH I FUCKED HER COS I WANTED TOO" in your face. (see previous posts)

Hon, this man is not interested in helping you heal the way he should be. I am sorry he still has his head wedged so firmly up his arse but he does. And nothing short of gelignite will remove it, it seems.

Big huge hugs,

Sammie

(((Sunflowergirl)))

I don't think you are over analysing anything. Your husband had an AFFAIR. He now OWES you the answers if he wants you to stay together. Full Stop.

He had ( from reading other posts ) a two month? EA with her ( by phone and text ) last year which you put a stop to. He contacts her again in Novermber to say Sorry ( whut?! ) and proceeds into another EA for another couple of months before it turns physical. This wasn't 'just' sex. He says they only had sex 5/6 times and he never spoke about you. And yet, SHE had the illusion that he was going to leave you? Didn't she say 'I KNEW you would never leave XXX' Why would she even thihk that if he never spoke about you or your marriage and they only had sex 5/6 times in those 6 months? Either she's completely crazy or HE'S MINIMIZING. My guess is the latter. He says 'I lied to her' . Yes. But WHAT did you say? SHE thought he was going to leave, to me, that says he said *something* about it. Yes, it may very well have been lies because he STAYED. But you want to HEAR the lies he told her - and if you WANT to hear them, then you ( as the betrayed spouse ) have the right to ask, and he OWES you the answer. HE OWES YOU THE TRUTH. Even if it was lies he told her, you need to know them. Without TRUTH between you and he now your R is on shaky ground.

However, the FACT is he DID NOT leave you, and tried to end it with her. You DO have proof of that. That does mean a LOT.

But, he kept the pictures. That isn't good. If he really didn't want anything to do with her anymore, if he really felt shame for what he had done, why keep the pictures as a memento. I don't know. But I think YOU deserve a better answer than 'I don't know' .

I agree with Sammie, him screaming;

"YEAH I FUCKED HER COS I WANTED TOO"

in your face, is not the sign of someone who 'gets' how much they have hurt you. He as yet, doesn't 'get' the magnitude of what he has done.

Personally, I would tell him that you need him to take a polygraph, because no matter what the expense your marriage may not survive without one. You need the truth to go on. The fact that he chose YOU, chose your marriage, BEFORE you found out speaks volumes. But he needs to work on from there now.

Good Luck to you, I wish I could lessen your pain.

(((sunflowergirl30))) So sorry for what you are going through.

I feel like he is full of shit..

He is full of shit; but I get the sense he was lying to both you and the OW. I doubt there was any love in the other relationship. Just a selfish bastard trying to get into someone else's pants for his own ego.

didn't love her only liked her and wanted to fu¤ck her & used her as an escape from all his problems and feelings of unhappiness.

You are still very fresh and raw, and focusing on his feelings 'for' OW is natural. However, I would urge you to concentrate on his statement above. It reads very true to me, like he is trying to tell you the truth.

I worry that you are trying to see in your conversations what his feelings for you are - seeking 'affirmation' from him. Look deeper inside yourself for affirmation, it is there, you don't need it from him. Honestly, it is hard to remember that sometimes as a betrayed person, but you are disempowering yourself by focusing on a worry about how his feelings for 'it' (the affair) reflect on his feelings for you.

Turn it around in your head. Your H was so lacking in his own feelings of esteem and self-empowerment that his head was turned by the frisson of available pussy, and so yes, I do understand that she was but a ego-masturbation as well as a sexual masturbation tool - a self-medicating running away from himself. She could even have been a blow-up doll, such was her role in his escape. So used and abused are very much pertinent terms IMO. And she allowed herself to be used and abused, complicit in her own exploitation in return for a little attention. Two egos fucking. That's all.

Hold your head high. Your H did not look inside himself and recognise the needy hole at the time, he chose the easiest and quickest routes to temporarily alleviate feelings of depression or self-dislike, stress, or whatever. His coping mechanisms were poor, and it sounds like he does in fact recognise all that now.

The question now is having admitted he is/ was a 'user', what he is going to do about it? How is he going to gain back your respect and his own self-respect? What analysis is HE going to bring to the table, or apply to past behaviour in order to understand his future? If his self-esteem is so low, how is he going to find a way to develop a stronger sense of self, so that like for himself comes from within and does not need fanned by any available female?

Please do not make the mistake that his actions were a rejection of you - they were a rejection of himself, and his actions simply seeking surface solutions. I am sure in the fullness of time he will begin to despise himself having had to resort to being a 'player' to prop himself up.

It was not 'her' that he had feelings for, but 'it' - the frisson and fantasy of being someone's (anyone's) object of admiration and hero.

JMHO

When its all said and done I just feel defeated,betrayed and broken. That he used another woman in a way that I thought was special to just he and I....that he wanted her and kept going back until he'd had enough..that even if he didn't love her he still WANTED 2 fu¤k her enough 2 lie to me betray me..knowing he was intimate with her so personal is killing me. That he made the effort and was w/her..that she wanted him and he let her have a part of him(no pun intended)...I just keep asking how could u do that to me? Why did u want her so bad? Why did u want 2 fu¤k her? He knew it was wrong and f'd up..it feels like a big fu¤k you(my name)! He insists it wasn't like that! I feel like no matter what I will always feel like he wanted her, 2 fu¤k her and it makes me feel like nothing! Not good enough! That he didn't think of me or love me enough to pass on some easy sex! Which doesn't seem so easy considering he had to lie and sneak around..for 6mo. He had to lie and plan and that's what hurts the lying so blatantly to my face so he could go fu¤k her, use her! I hate him for it, can't see myself ever forgiving him! Its the betrayal that's eating me up! Him holding my face in his hands and telling me I'm the only one that there was no 1 else and making love to me..promising me he would never cheat! Promising me he would never do that to me make me share him with someone yet all along he was! She ment nothing..but he documented it and saved pix on his cell, broke it off yet pix were still on his cell...but she ment nothing..I don't save pix to me cell unless the have some meaning to me! He won't admit why he had pix..its all just fu¤ked up.

Sunflowergirl, as I've posted before your situation is very close to mine. On Saturday I started questioning for the 100th time that if you had no feelings for this woman, why did you keep chasing her? Why did you treat her well sexually? Why were you emailing her, calling her? How could you be that intimate with her? I finally backed him into a corner and he got furious....punched the windshield and broke it, because I just keep harping on it. But FINALLY after 12 months I think I got the best answer I am ever going to get, that answer......."I just don't know why". Is it good enough for me..not really, but I do think he is being honest, and had no emotional attachment to this woman. Beleive me, I still can't get past the intimate things he did with her, but I have to now believe there was no connection other than sexual. I am still very angry over this, and the deception that went along with it. I also hate that he empowered that bitch, made her feel she was something special, instead of the rag she is.

Have you read Jonathan's letter in the healing library under articles? I don't know, but if he's willing to read it, it might help.

Yea, he's full of shit.

It's based on a lot of lies, it's about manipulating each other to get the response they want, it's about that feeling of being desired, not about building love, respect or anything respembling a real relationship.

Hmmm Intersting Mepe. This might be an "Aha" moment for me.

Thanks for sharing that.