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So my WW arrived back from Europe on Saturday and after spending a few minutes in tears hugging my daughter I say Hi to her through my tears. She doesn't hear and I don't notice. I ask her if she wants to put our daughter in the push chair and she says no. So I'm holding my daughter and my WW complains that I didn't say hello! I tell her that I did say hello but it's a pointless waste of time. She starts pushing the cart through the exit and I follow holding my daughter. I pay for the parking and then I ask WW if she would like me to push the cart. She replies that it's too late to ask now. Great start to the day.

Flash forward to yesterday. I want to initiate a dialog so I decide to tell her four things. These are:

1. I want to work on this marriage

2. I know that there are issues with the way that I relate to her and I have been in IC dealing with them.

3. I am willing to move back to Europe if that is what it takes.

4. I know that I care because if I didn't then it wouldn't hurt so much.

In reply this is what I get. And this is in no particular order either:

1. She came back because she had to. She felt threatened by my lawyer asking her if she planned to return.

2. She believes that I should just "Get Over" her affair and move on because it was "just a game".

3. She said she was sorry once and that should be enough.

4. She shows no remorse for what she did and no empathy for what it did to me.

5. She said that she made "one mistake" but she had to live through two years of emotional abuse. (she was emotionally absent from the relationship for the past 12 months).

6. I was the one who moved from the marriage bed ... And yet I am the one sleeping in the marriage bed and she is sleeping in the guest room where she has been for the past two years.

7. That parents should stay together for the sake of their children.

8. That the words she wrote to me 4 years ago when we reconciled were not her words, just the words of some friend who said that was what I wanted to hear.

9. One of those emails from 2006 said that she had deleted her dating website profile. It was still active in 2010.

10. She believes that it is perfectly fine to keep secrets from her husband because it preserves her privacy.

So in a nutshell we have Gaslighting, Blameshifting and a total lack of remorse. What is in this marriage for me? Nothing of value that I can see.

2x4's and any realistic advice accepted.

I think you should go see a lawyer and find out your options. She is thinking of no one but herself right now and you shouldn't have to deal with that.

Good luck. Dealing with an openly unremorseful spouse sucks.

Well at least your daughter is back in the country. Personally I'd destroy or hide her passport so your WW can't take her anywhere else.

Greg,

I'm sorry this is turning out this way for you, but the silver lining in all of this I think at this point is at least she is being pretty crystal clear about where she stands as far as your M goes.

Having been right where you are now, with an openly selfish, unremorseful WS who just doesn't give a shit about her BS or M, I know how frustrating and heartbreaking this all is and how helpless you must feel right now.

But, look at it this way: trying to salvage this marriage and make it work is like clapping: you need 2 hands. If only one hand is clapping, is there any noise made at all?

This completely sucks, I know. She has her head far up her ass, I know. But, the time has come to really consider: is this the person you want to raise your child with and spend your life with? Does she really deserve to be with you? Don't you deserve more?

My 2x4 is that I think you know the answers to the above questions.

I think many would agree that it's time to stop banging your head against the wall and really think about filing, so that you can get this toxic person out of your life and get on with living.

7. That parents should stay together for the sake of their children.

Alright, yes, parents modeling a healthy relationship and providing a peaceful loving home for a child is the ideal scenario. Parents that are not able to live peacefully together, and who are modeling a destructive relationship are IMHO not doing their children any favors by staying together.

[This message edited by wowokreally? at 10:12 PM, December 13th (Monday)]

So in a nutshell we have Gaslighting, Blameshifting and a total lack of remorse. What is in this marriage for me? Nothing of value that I can see.

(((((Greg))))) Sorry but if this is what you're getting after 2 years...it looks like she has given you her answer. Time to think about YOU and what you want to do.

There is little hope with her behavior. Miracles do happen but I wouldn't count on it.

As we always say "Pray for sunshine but prepare for rain."

You need to protect yourself and your daughter. In my opinion she is gone already by her statements.

As others have already stated, I would find your daughter's passport and give it to your attorney (assuming this does not break any laws).

I would 180 her hard and repeatably.

Continue to let her sleep in the guest room because that is exactly what she is right now, an unwanted guest.

I'm wondering if your WW is my male spousal unit.

I'm not a big fan of pissing in the wind. I'm also not a big fan of banging my head against a brick wall.

Don't be a doormat dude.

Sorry.

I don't think I need to tell you what you already know.

You can only control what you'll do. Take control and make choices that are in your best interest and those of your child.

my heart is breaking for you.hug your daughter, and keep moving forward.don't look back.better yourself and your situation, whatever it takes.don't give her any more emotional support, she doesn't deserve it.you're doing the right things, she wants to stay in "la-la land" and continue to be a self serving jerk.if she intends to stay that way, move above and beyond.you deserve happiness.with or without her.and i'd let her see you mean BUSINESS about that.

i'm so glad you are reunited with your daughter.i hope you can take steps to make sure she at least, will remain here with you.*HUGS*

Thanks for all your comments. I just weighed myself and I've lost over 4 pounds in 4 days. I also found out tonight that WW is stil "unsure" that she wants to remain unmarried. Unsure after 12 months ... The answer is in that statement.

Greg, just one thing.

Do NOT move back to Europe to try to appease her.

I am stuck, forever, in Europe because we are divorcing in Europe. My career took a major hit by moving here and in all likelihood, I will never, ever be able to take my son back to the US w/o stbx's permission. I know I'll never be able to take him back there to live, unless my stbx dies. (Hmmmm....)

In general, the place where a divorce is decided has the final say, and European judges side with the European parent.

I don't know if this is the case already, but you should be talking to a lawyer who has experience in intl custody/divorce asap. Even if you think you want to work this out, it is NOT in your best interest to move back there, and it may just be a ploy for her to go back to her family.

She is clearly not really into R. Sorry. She is still blaming you for everything. Listen to what she's saying and make her do the work; don't surrender.

I'd take steps to ensure that she does not take your infant daughter outside the country w/o your permission. Don't destroy the passport, but do ask your lawyer exactly how to stop your WW from taking her.

This is really a serious thing and it adds an extra level of suck.

[This message edited by jolene at 4:24 AM, December 14th (Tuesday)]

Greg, no matter how much you love her, no matter how bad it hurts, regardless of what glimmer of hope you might retain for a future together, there is one thing you must do.

Sit quietly, look into your heart and recognize that the image you keep of her is not who she is now.

See the difference, and adjust your thinking accordingly.

Time to start thinking "ME" instead of "We". Time to plan your future without her.

Greg,

I cant tell you how glad I am to here that your WW returned wtih DD. Id like to echo what jolene said.

If you have any doubt that your M may not last DO NOT MOVE TO EUROPE.

I am faced with the descision do i stay here with limited job prospects, no family support, in an environment that is culturally foreign to how i grew up. Just so i get to spend a few days ever other week with my kids, Or do i return home, try and start a new life and perhapes get to see them once a year if im lucky? I know that D and residence in NZ would be doing the same to your WW, but meh... she's done you more than enough damage already.

I would suggest that the passport that DD is in gets misplaced in the next few days... also see about getting the non-removal order in place.

Once youve secured your DD then you can look at what needs to happen for R....

Normally we say judge a WS by their actions because they are promising all sorts of stuff but doing nothing... your WW doesnt even sound like shes saying the right things... still judging her by her actions and not her words will still stand you in good stead.

Try to avoid trying to buy her commitment to R through offering her things... This places to much power in her hands, she will end up driving what gets discussed, when, it demonstrates to her that the M is more important to you than it is to her. Although this is most likely the case, you need to stop her from exploiting it.

Finally look at what she is offering you is it enough? Is she really the person you think she is... are the good moments that good that they outweigh the bad? Do you want to remain with this women...

I have no doubt that you love her, but bro sometimes love aint enough.