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I disagree with that amazon review. There are many authors who do 1-15 much better and obviously so, Glen Cook coming to mind immediately. I don't think GRRM breaks away from the typical fantasy mold at all.

The big draw to GRRM in fantasy as far as I can tell is the graphic sex and violence he invests into an otherwise typical fantasy setting. I honestly found his writing to be overly pedantic.

I will probably read the 5th at some point just because I read the other 4.

I suggest Feist or Goodkind or Dragonlance if you want a more straight forward story with strong archetypes.

WTF, Dragonlance is layered. Raistlin and Caramon are *twins* see, but they're *total opposites*!

Bah. The only difference between Song of Fire & Ice and War of Souls is midget porn.

They both have midget porn. ASOIAF is the one with canon Twincest.

Lies. There is no sex scene in Dragonlance.

I don't think there is.

Where is the sex scene? What have you done?

You clearly have not spent enough time interrogating the text from the Bupu/Raistlin 'shipper perspective.

I weep for one more sliver of my innocence lost.

You were probably distracted by Tika's boobs. They're really big. Didja know?

There was this one time I complained about the sexism of a DM adding in a Penis and Prostate of Vecna, so he added a Descending Colon just for me. Yes, I know that's Greyhawk.

Now I want to tell the Head of Vecna story, thereby completing the derailment of this thread :(

Possibly everyone geeky enough to think that story is funny has already heard it though.

On topic: when I read A Game of Thrones, I was so impressed by the fact that Stark was actually executed at his own execution. At the time, I was hooked... but the series is now just too long for me. I finally lost interest somewhere around halfway through book 3. I don't mind series, but somehow I just can't read any of those "doorstop fantasy" series. It just isn't my style. I guess I associate brevity with good writing.

On topic, I think the tv series is and will continue to be better than the books. I think GoT was the only one in which I actually read all the POVs. They slowly dropped away as I lost interest in some and too many other characters were added. Truly, I'm confused and cannot keep middle management type characters straight. Actors have helped with that. The whole structure...it's just better for television.

Also, having an adult play Daenerys and a post-pubescent play Sansa has helped enormously with my comfort level. I mean I was a fairly weird eleven year old but *I* wouldn't have been responding to advances from the Hound with a level of sophistication more suited to a 40 year old divorcee, so I'm pretty sure Sansa's whole vibe is just GRRM being a perv.

I think that's enough on topic that you can tell your Head of Vecna story now!

[This message edited by ladyvorkosigan at 9:09 AM, July 7th (Thursday)]

OK!

I originally saw it in Dragon Magazine like 20 years ago.

Many years ago, I ran a game where I pitted two groups against each other.

Several members of Group One came up with the idea of luring Group Two into a trap. You remember the Hand of Vecna and the Eye of Vecna that were artifacts in the old D&D world where if you cut off your hand (or your eye) and replaced it with the Hand of Vecna (or the Eye) you'd get new awesome powers? Well, Group One thought up The Head of Vecna.

Group One spread rumors all over the countryside (even paying Bards to spread the word about this artifact rumored to exist nearby). They even went so far as to get a real head and place it under some weak traps to help with the illusion. Unfortunately, they forgot to let ALL the members of their group in on the secret plan (I suspect it was because they didn't want the Druid to get caught and tell the enemy about this trap of theirs, or maybe because they didn't want him messing with things).

The Druid in group One heard about this new artifact and went off in search of it himself (I believe to help prove himself to the party members...) Well, after much trial and tribulation, he found it; deactivated (or set off) all the traps; and took his "prize" off into the woods for examination. He discovered that it did not radiate magic (a well known trait of artifacts) and smiled gleefully.

I wasn't really worried since he was alone and I knew that there was no way he could CUT HIS OWN HEAD OFF. Alas I was mistaken as the Druid promptly summoned some carnivorous apes and instructed them to use his own scimitar and cut his head off (and of course quickly replacing it with the Head of Vecna...)

Some time later, Group one decided to find the Druid and to check on the trap. They found the headless body (and the two heads) and realized that they had erred in their plan (besides laughing at the character who had played the Druid)...The Head of Vecna still had BOTH eyes! They corrected this mistake and reset their traps and the Head for it's real intended victims...

Group Two, by this time, had heard of the powerful artifact and decided that it bore investigating since, if true, they could use it to destroy Group One. After much trial and tribulation, they found the resting place of The Head of Vecna! The were particularly impressed with the cunning traps surrounding the site (one almost missed his save against the weakest poison known to man). They recovered the Head and made off to a safe area.

Group Two actually CAME TO BLOWS (several rounds of fighting) against each other arguing over WHO WOULD GET THEIR HEAD CUT OFF! Several greedy players had to be hurt and restrained before it was decided who would be the recipient of the great powers bestowed by the Head... The magician was selected and one of them promptly cut his head off. As the player was lifting The Head of Vecna to emplace it on it's new body, another argument broke out and they spent several minutes shouting and yelling. Then, finally, they put the Head onto the character.

Well, of course, the Head simply fell off the lifeless body. All members of Group Two began yelling and screaming at each other (and at me) and then, on their own, decided that they had let too much time pass between cutting off the head of a hopeful recipient and put the Head of Vecna onto the body.

SO THEY DID IT AGAIN!... [killing another PC]

In closing, it should be said that I never even cracked a smile as all this was going on. After the second PC was slaughtered, I had to give in (my side was hurting)...

And Group Two blamed ME for all of that...

The head is a great story but the cattle drive through tomb of horrors is even better imo.

I do want to see GOT, I kind of thought it might be a Dune situation where it's better on screen than in print.

Yes, I will attack Dune, with vigor and ferocity.

http://io9.com/5822396/damn-it-feels-good-to-be-a-lannister-the-music-video

Funny vid!

I saw the first 2 episodes on HBO while out of town and since I dont have HBO at home I decided to read the books. I am on book 2 right now and I love the series so far. I think HBO added a little more sex into it but that is HBO's style. The series is great though.

I also read the dragonlance series when they first came out and enjoyed them as well.

One series that I have been reading since the begining is the the Wheel Of Time series by Robert Jordan. Epic storyline!

Robert Jordan wrote highly of GRRM before he died a few years ago.

Where to start...

I enjoyed Game of Thrones on HBO, and people were raving about the books, so when I saw the first four on sale for less than $20 on Amazon, I grabbed them.

Yes, that's about 4,000 pages of relatively recent literature for less than $20.

I read the first book after watching the full season on HBO. I enjoyed it. The HBO show is very true to the book - a tiny bit toned down, but the spirit is the same. The only important difference is that Catelyn is closer to a villain than a hero in the book. HBO did this to keep us focused on one family and caring about the unfolding events - television differs from literature in that aspect. The author likes his shades of gray, but it's more the gray reactions to a small subset of mostly evil people who seek power.

I am not a fantasy fan in the slightest, and it grabbed me. I have read the first Outlander book, and found it on the level of snuff porn. Absolutely unbearable, and impossible to take seriously. This is better. It doesn't truly fit any mold, the way Outlander fits the gothic romance mold.

So I kept reading. And reading. The first one is the shortest book. It's 830 pages. The next three are just more of the same, only at a greatly reduced pace. By the time you reach the third book, events are actually taking place over a shorter period of time than it takes you to read the book. In that way, Martin has become the James Joyce of his generation. Only more coherent and less literary.

I'm regretting reading the series, and am leaning against purchasing the fifth book, which came out in July.

It's good, but I think around the end of book two Martin simply ran out of ideas and started repeating himself. If HBO wants to continue (it has approved production), it will have to create plot - even for book two - resolving some points that are long forgotten in book four.