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Daughter is 1st year college student, and talked to me last night about what I think about her potential long distance relationship with a boy from another college who SWEARS he will be faithful until they see eachother on breaks and over the summer.

I told her, that he probably means it when he SAYS it, but the chances of a handsome college freshman in a popular fraternity remaining faithful are slightly less than zero. So without getting angry about it, you can just accept that he will hook up with other girls, and you will hook up with other guys, and it's best fo just be honest about that, and to protect yourself from disease and pregnancy.

Her response was " Can anybody be trusted?"

This is when my wayward wife's ears perked up.

I said " At your age... and in your situation... not really. It's best to just look out for yourself. if people could all be trusted to say and do the right things, things Herpes wouldn't exist anymore. Protect yourself. Especially in relationships, because people will say anything to cover their asses, and get into your pants. "

Wayward Wife didn't like this conversation at all, and read me a short riot act about how bitter and untrusting I've become. She said she inderstands that I'm "jaded" now, but strongly believes that people can be trusted. Essentially she was making a case for herself, and I chose not to shoot it down. We have a scheduled conversation about Trust this Friday, in which I' plan to explain to her precisely why I still do not trust her fully.

Her exact words were " even now... that we are PAST it? "

Past it.... I gota tell you, I really hate when she says that.

[This message edited by TrustednBusted at 10:26 AM, November 9th (Wednesday)]

Wow. So you should just teach your daughter to trust anyone huh?

And you should trust your wife because SHE is past it. That's what she meant. She's moved on past her affair and she's getting pissy that you haven't.

This is the part of the A that seems to continue. The selfishness that becomes a part of them during the A just doesn't want to leave.

strongly believes that people can be trusted

I wonder if this belief would be quite so strong were she the BS. I think not.

However, even a WS must see that trust is not something to be freely given? For someone to know that they couldn't be trusted, how can they possibly say that people in general can be?!

Does WW see her herself as a 'special liar.'?

I apologise for making light of this, because I know it's not at all, but sometimes they say the most ludicrous things!

strongly believes that people can be trusted

I wonder if this belief would be quite so strong were she the BS. I think not.

However, even a WS must see that trust is not something to be freely given? For someone to know that they couldn't be trusted, how can they possibly say that people in general can be?!

Does WW see her herself as a 'special liar.'?

I apologise for making light of this, because I know it's not at all, but sometimes they say the most ludicrous things!

Yep. And this is precisely what this Friday's discussion is going to be about.

You are never 'past' it. You just learn to deal with it, live with it, and learn from it. And she needs to realize that although we can still have a long happy life together, there will be fallout, that is just as permanent as the choices she's made.

I wonder if this belief would be quite so strong were she the BS. I think not.

yah, I'm sure she would be just as jaded as I am. However she did make a good point. SOME people CAN be trusted. I mean, I think I've proven that I can be trusted, even during my worst I never got revenge.

So there's that. SOME people take marriage seriously and can be trusted. And my hope is that she recognizes how rare and wonderful that is, and that she has it, while she doesn't deserve it.

In the end, the conversation was about college kids. And my daughter is a really gorgeous girl. there will be no shortage of horny frat boys lining up to get at her. I want her to have the character to make good choices, and the knowledge to smell the metric ton of bullshit she is about to hear over the next few years.

WS here, hope that's ok.

Youre WS must understand, "trust" and all that goes with it, is EARNED. It is not just given with anything including R.

Being fully transparent, open honesty, communication, loving, companionship, devoted, showing compassion, regret, remorse, non defensiveness, the list is endless. The actions she puts forth. Her actions (following your "love language" continually, speaks louder than words.

Trust must be earned. It is not just given and assuming this and becoming defensive, blameshifting that youre not trusting her yet,

fully. Imo she is not being compassionate regarding your feelings. She also must trust you in your decision as to when you feel youre ready to trust her.

[This message edited by DeeplyRemorseful at 11:16 AM, November 9th (Wednesday)]

Oh, how very blameshifty of her. I hope your talk on Friday goes well and she gleans a bit of reality from it. In the earlier days, I would at times point at my husband and say "actions" and then point at me "meet consequences."

[This message edited by Rebreather at 12:43 PM, November 9th (Wednesday)]

Absolutely - some people can be trusted. We're proof of that, but it's trying to decipher who those trustworthy people are that's the hardest part eh!

And someone on SI (can't remember who it was) came out with something that has really stuck with me about all of this.

You don't move past this, you move through it.

I think moving past something implies that it is in the past, gone and forgotten. Moving through it, shows it's dealt with properly and acknowledges that it is not just something to be forgotten and put in the past. (What a language, where the same word has so many different meanings!)

Wayward Wife didn't like this conversation at all, and read me a short riot act about how bitter and untrusting I've become. She said she inderstands that I'm "jaded" now, but strongly believes that people can be trusted.

Of course she feels this way. She doesn't have any reason to feel that she can't trust people. You haven't given her a reason to.

Her complete failure of empathy -- blaming you for your reaction because she hasn't had to walk in those shoes -- probably isn't surprising. We all tend to fantasize that we'd react differently/better/more...whatever than people actually living through those circumstances.

I expect to have the same conversation with my son when he goes to college...in 12yrs. My WW has lost my trust. She may regain 50% back, but that's about it. She exhibited incredibly bad and dangerous decision-making skills during her A's. Doing things I could never imaging doing to myself or to someone I hated. The flaws in her are deep seated. It will take eons for me to believe that when she gets massively stressed on something, that she won't exhibit the same self-centered destructive behavior. I'll trust her somewhat eventually, as long as she walks in front of me.

[This message edited by Ghostrider at 3:23 PM, November 9th (Wednesday)]

I'm horrified by this, bu freinds' daughters in college were taught very early (by peers?) to keep their drinks covered to protect themselves from date rape drugs. I hope your daughter knows about that.

What does that say about trust?

Good luck Friday.