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After I read the book, I started this thread because I have always known something was wrong with my mother. Some of the things in the book are exactly things she says and does.

NaiveAgain

What you said about just walking in the door. Oh that is my mom, well almost. She will ring the doorbell and wait for a very short period of time and then check to see if the door is locked if not comes in. She has come into my home at times when I have not been home and have forgot to lock the door.

Also one time when my WS was home, he had knee surgery and was very slow at getting around, I had just gone to the store to get his medicine and she came and rang the doorbell. My WS was in the bathroom. The door was locked and by the time he was getting out of the bathroom, she was around the back of the house looking thru the windows.

In the Narcissists book that would be having no boundaries. One of the seven traits for narcissists.

I think this book is a great read for ANYONE. You can deal with sociopaths if they know you have their number.

I found they do sort of run in packs -- if you're involved with one, you'll wind up being involved with many.

If you can convince them that you're crazier than they are and have tight limits on their ability to influence your life you can deal with one if you need to.

I think many are, as marzipan said,the products of horrific childhoods -- but it's important not to let compassion for the reasons behind the creation of the sociopath blind you to the fact that they are what they are.

It would be like letting a blind man drive your car because you feel terrible that he lost his eyesight from a head injury inflicted by one of his parents as a baby. It's damn sad, but the dude is still blind.

Anyway, I think most people will have to deal with someone who is at some level sociopathic for at least some period of time several times throughout their lifetime. And there are right ways and wrong ways to do that. A book like this is very helpful.

I think many are, as marzipan said,the products of horrific childhoods -- but it's important not to let compassion for the reasons behind the creation of the sociopath blind you to the fact that they are what they are.

Definitely. And it took me a while to realize that one of the ways he manipulated me was by making sure I never forgot that *I* had a model childhood with loving parents, nice schools, and everything I wanted and needed handed to me.

On another topic, I was watching an episode of HOUSE on the DVR last night, for the first time in a while. Is Dr. House a sociopath? He only cares about medical puzzles, not patients. He messes with people's heads and leaves chaos in his wake. He does whatever he wants, for his own purposes, without concerning himself about the repercussions to others. Watch an episode after reading this book and see what you think.

I don't watch that show much actually heard that it is going to end soon.

The reason why your WS never let you forget you had a good childhood is because he really wants you not to forget that he had a terrible one.

Remember the poor pity me. Complex.

You can deal with sociopaths if they know you have their number.

...and have tight limits on their ability to influence your life you can deal with one if you need to.

This. It's important to keep very tight boundaries IF you choose to continue to have these people in your life. But it's also very important to remember that they will never be "cured". If you keeping running around the mulberry bush with these people, you will keep running around the mulberry bush. KWIM?

And they can be very charming... Others who are unaware are taken in my their charm and are confused as to why you don't care to be around them...until they become the target of something. Inevitably, the lightbulb goes on.

My mother fits EVERY item on the list. And no, we are not best buds. cd

The first line is what dear mom may say and the second line is what she really means with her comments.

WHAT SHE SAYS

WHAT IT MEANS

I love you.

I want to manipulate you.

You're showing signs of breaking away and I want to suck you back in.

I've heard people say this and it seems to get a good reaction.

I command you to love me.

Don't ever feel like you HAVE to come see me for my birthday

If you don't make the 650 mile pilgrimage to celebrate me, I promise I will do something to make you pay dearly.

Go do something constructive.

Be gone, I have no interest in my own children.

You were an "accident".

You are only here because homicide would get me jail time, and I thought you'd be a better slave, so I didn't opt for adoption.

You go have yourself a good cry!

I resent your emotions, but at least I can use them to hurt you.

I never said that!

Damned if I'm going to admit it.

Yes I said that but it doesn't work in the conversation right now.

I know I said it but it’s so much fun to f*** with your head until you don’t know what is true and you think you really are crazy! Yeah me!!!

It's been a long time since I talked to you and just called to see how you were doing.

I am running low on my Narcissistic Supply and need another fix.

I have no idea what you're talking about!

Damned if I'm going to admit to it.

You just aren't remembering correctly.

My version of events shows me in a better light, so that's the official one.

You never do anything for me!

I know you've done a lot for me in the past, but that was then and it no longer counts. What have you done for me today?

It's time this stops.

None of my ploys have worked to pull you back so now I will treat you like a child.

I miss you.

I miss having control over you.

I'm lacking my Narcissistic Supply - please provide it pronto.

Who have you been talking to, in therapy with, what book did you read, etc, etc, etc....

I'm not getting the usual emotional response from you and you are too dim-witted to have figured out how to shut me down on your own.

Your brother and sister-in-law took us out to dinner last night. We had such a nice time - I don't think we have ever been treated that well.

You had better step up your game and show some appreciation for all I've done for you.

I'm so proud of you.

You have made me feel good and/or *I* feel good because of you.

I can take credit for that accomplishment.

Why are you wasting your time on something so silly and that takes you away from your family?

Why are you wasting your time on something so silly and that takes you away from me?

Your father and I think ...

I think ...

So how are you?

I'd better ask, but don't worry I won't really be listening. Or as soon as you say a trigger word, which reminds me of something else, I'll interrupt and be off again!

I'm running out of things to boast to my friends about, so please come up with some accomplishments.

I'm so sorry your beloved 14-year old dog died.

Sigh ... I'd better at least mention it and then I can talk about myself again.

It's so sad!

It's so exciting! I love being this close to tragedies! The drama!

I'm sorry.

I will say the words but never change my behaviour.

I'll say anything to shut you up, but don't worry, I don't mean it.

I'm thinking of you.

I will continue to ignore your boundaries.

Let’s just let go of the past.

Let’s pretend everything is ok and I’m not a nightmare of a mother so I can continue to torture you and get my Narcissistic Supply.

Your sister-in-law is such a great cook! Simply amazing!

I want to take away any pleasure or pride you have in your own cooking skills.

I just want you to love me.

All I really want is for you give me my Narcissistic Supply.

What’s wrong with you today? What is your problem?

I’m pissed that you are denying me my much needed Narcissistic Supply. Damn you!

I was only trying to help!

I demand the freedom to interfere in your life any time I want.

That is my right!

What happened to the nice girl I once knew?

Why are you no longer the easily manipulated and uncomplaining-of-abuse girl I raised you to be?

After all I’ve done for you! You’ve never appreciated me!” wah wah wah

I have violated your boundaries most of your life and I resent the hell out of your standing your ground and refusing to allow me to interfere, manipulate and control you.

Why are you treating me so badly? What have I done wrong?

I have the right to interfere in your life and abuse you without any consequences.

Because I’m the Mama!

You are really just a child, after all. I’ll never acknowledge that you are now an adult.

I want to give you this or that because I love you.

It’s really because you will then be beholden to me and this gives me great leverage to milk you for Narcissistic Supply.

I want to help you with your kids.

I plan to interfere in the upbringing of your children by spoiling them, disciplining them differently to your way, and ignoring your decisions and wishes regarding them. I will not acknowledge your position and rights as the mother of these children.

You were very difficult to raise.

You were always my problem child.

You resisted my attempts to violate your boundaries, abuse you and humiliate you.

I never want to be a burden to you.

I will over-run your life and suck the life force from you and your children.

Have you lost some weight?

I am so glad that I brought that sticky bun with me on this visit.

You take me the wrong way.

I will invalidate your feelings as I have done your whole life.

You're such a good cook.

You got that from me!

You're such a good mother.

You got that from me!

You don't respect me!

You won't let me abuse you!

I have to walk on eggshells around you.

You're over-sensitive.

You won't take my abuse uncomplainingly.

You won't forgive me!

You won't allow me to allow me to trample all over you even though I have expressed no repentance and will continue to act exactly as I always have.

You need more time to think about it.

Well have a think about it and get back to me.

I am not accepting your decision/opinion.

I was just joking even if I did say and do that, which I didn't.

I did say/do it, and I did mean it, but damned if I'm going to acknowledge that.

You just won't admit when you're wrong.

You defended yourself from my lies!

Medical emergency

Broken finger nail

Disaster

Phone bill arrives

Major Disaster

Visitor cancelled

[This message edited by cd103 at 1:05 PM, March 18th (Sunday)]