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I really think my STBXH has been bluffing on wanting a D. The thought crossed my mind the moment he handed me a packet of papers to take to our first meeting with the mediator. I had asked him to collect a few documents that were missing from the packet that I put together. When he handed me the stack of papers; the manner in which he did and the look on his face was exactly the same as when he was showing me a bluff hand when playing poker.

After then the thought crossed my mind several times when I was asking him to stay at home and give me a chance. A few times when he was saying ‘no’ I did notices that ‘bluff’ demeanor. As time passed and I accepted that he was going to really D me; I stopped asking him to come back. His anger towards me was really escalating at this point and I wonder if he was getting very upset because I was ‘calling his bluff’.

At a certain point, about a month ago, he made an offer on a house. That was very sad for me because that was my sign that he was really never going to give me a chance by going to therapy and staying at home. Buying a house is a huge commitment that you just can’t walk away from. Well, the deal fell through and he walked away from buying a house and moved into an apartment on a 3 month lease. Telling me that he hopes to have a house within those 3 months.

Well, over the past 3 weeks, he has come to me several times wanting to talk to me about ‘us’. We would have these conversations that were very unproductive. He ending up getting mad and saying that he has lost all ‘hope’. Every time we talk he refers to wanting to have ‘hope’ for ‘us’. When I ask him what he means by ‘hope’ he says it is hope that the old me is still there someplace deep inside and that we can be friends. He ‘hopes’ we will be able to be friends. I just never quite bought that. So, one morning about a week and a half ago, after one of these conversations I sent him a text asking him the point of these conversations. His reply was that he hoped that I would ask him back. Wow, that was interesting to me and took a lot of processing on my part to understand what he was trying to say. But I was driving myself crazy and had to accept he has left. I didn’t want to go backwards emotionally. Then last week we had a fight over pots and pans. Silly I know. He came in the house to take the pots and pans from the cupboard since he did not have any in his apartment. Long story short, he told me that he didn’t think he would really need to buy pots and pans because he thought he would be back home by now. Hu??? That really got me back to thinking that maybe this all really has been a bluff. If it were not for his making the offer on that house, I would be convinced.

What is going on? Has he been bluffing? Is it that now he’s out of the house and sees kids so little that he is regretting being so insistent on leaving me? Is his ego getting in the way to come to me and say he was too quick to commit to leaving me? I have no idea what I should do about this. If he was bluffing then I would have to really think about my own desire to R. Yes, I made a huge mistake and take full responsibility. Although how could someone go through all of this (and money on mediation) all the way to the point to where papers are filed at the court? Up until we told the kids (age 11 and 9), had he ever changed his mind and take me up on my plea for him to stay and go to MC I would have been so grateful! But that morning we told the kids, for me there was no turning back. So back to my question, what is he doing? And what should I do if something like this comes up again? Our court date is a month away…

I posted on your thread in Wayward last night, before it got changed to a Stop Sign only thread. Then I deleted my reply, thinking I had somehow accidentally posted on a Stop Sign thread.

I don't think your BH is bluffing. He'll go through with this divorce. But I also think he's searching for some type of response from you, that he's not getting. If he saw in you what he needs to see, then he might be open to changing his mind about the divorce.

BSs are on the worst kind of roller coaster ride, with emotions all over the place, but don't count on this being a bluff.

Thanks Inconnu. This just happens all so fast. The emotions are insane, I know. I sometimes wonder if some days he does want a D and others he wants R. At first I felt he was in drivers seat… for what I did to him he can have a d if that's what he wants. I don't blame him for hating me. WHO would ever want to love some one like me? But to b honest, as time passes and I get nothing but meanness and inability to listen to me I don't know if any of this is repairable. Is it normal for the BS to be incapable of listening to the WS?

Is it normal for the BS to be incapable of listening to the WS?

I listened to what my WS had to say and I realized that I deserved better. Just because he doesn't come to the conclusion you want him to, doesn't mean he's not listening.

I don't think it's uncommon for a BS to realize, after introspection, that an affair really is a deal breaker.

It was really tough for me to come to that decision, but now that I'm divorced, I realized that it was the absolute best thing for me that I could have done. I'm happier than I have been in years.

It's possible that your BS has come to the same realization.

No, I didn't want to divorce, but there are some things that one human does to another that are so terrible, like an affair, that just can't be explained away and are unforgivable.

I think the kindest thing for you to do is to be extremely reasonable in divorce negotiations, and to let him start his new life in peace.

[This message edited by phmh at 5:35 PM, October 6th (Saturday)]

as time passes and I get nothing but meanness and inability to listen to me I don't know if any of this is repairable. Is it normal for the BS to be incapable of listening to the WS?

I think this is how my WS feels too. It frustrates me like no other, because I am actually willing to do everything I can to see if this marriage would work. But when we talk I find myself being short with him, cutting him off mid-sentence, etc. ]

In my situation though, I believe my WH is somewhat remorseful, but doesn't REGRET the A. He still communicates with OW and says they would of had a great relationship with her if it hadn't started when he was married. I think he is trying to hurry the D so he can be with her... even though I think he will find she is not as great as he thinks she is right now.

So yeah, THAT is why I am short with him. I often feel like he is bluffing too. Or maybe that he is trying to convince himself that he wants the D. He once referred to our marriage as an "addiction" that he is trying to quit. Who knows.

I don't want D but its better than the alternative. I won't be betrayed again and the way he is behaving shows me clearly I will be betrayed again if I continue with this marriage.

He won't listen to you now because your words mean nothing, less than nothing. If he is open to it he'll be looking for actions.

Gently, I'd say he's not fighting you or bluffing you - he's fighting the overwhelming urge to turn his back on you and run, run as far away as he possibly can.

Is his ego getting in the way to come to me and say he was too quick to commit to leaving me?

He is heartbroken. He is devastated. He is decimated. He never expected this. A betrayal shakes your very core. I know my ego protected me when I could not. He was not too quick to commit leaving you. Do you even see how his hand was forced here?

Your betrayal and him leaving you are not separate events. It seems to me rather than him being too quick in leaving you may have been to slow in committing to R.

And that's OK if you don't really want R, of if you want it for the wrong reasons (kids, security, resisting upheaval, don't want to be alone, guilt). It may have been an exit A.

If that's the case then it's best to let him go, set him free. He'll need to get through this himself anyway but false hope will prolong his misery. And yours.

Instead of trying to decipher him you need to work out what it is YOU want, take a hard, honest look at yourself and work out clearly why you want it and if the reasons are healthy ones then work out how to get there.

Someone needs to stop the crazy-making dance. NC/180 until you can both think straight and work out what you want and what you need rather than trying to get it back to the way it was. It will never be that again. That marriage is gone. Your future is either divorced and without him or in a different marriage with him.

[This message edited by StrongButBroken at 9:20 PM, October 6th (Saturday)]

FYI: WhoAmEye's situation is different. Her BS (if you can call him that) is the one who instigated her sexual relationship with the OM. Is he an emotional wreck over this? I'm not sure. He seems to have written the script of all that's happened in their marriage.

I'm not sure if your BS wants reconciliation, or if he wants to live with you and save money for a while so he can afford to buy that house purchase that fell through.

I don't know what to tell you. Some of the past actions and attitudes of your BS, as described by you, make me wonder if it's in your best interest to reconcile or not. Online, we see a small snapshot of a marriage and not the entire person or situation. If YOU wish to reconcile, then discuss what it would mean if he moved back, how the marriage would be conducted and to what goal.

Instead of asking us what he meant, ask him what he meant.

[This message edited by Heavy Sigh at 11:18 PM, October 6th (Saturday)]

Once again, all of your input is so wonderful! I really appreciate all perspectives of what could be going on here.

Heavy Sigh, I really appreciate your acknowledgement of the (what I would guess is) uniqueness of my situation with my BS and the OM and his W. The relationship my STBXH and the OM and his W does seem to muddy the waters a bit when I have the opportunity to explain the full situation. As you can imagine, I can’t tell most anyone about this element of my situation. Crazy enough, I told my own mother. It was almost like going to confession when telling her that “other part”. God bless her for not going off the deep end when I told her those details.

I think StongButBroken has a lot of good points too. I like to hear what the BS may be thinking and feeling. All I get from my BH is yelling and verbal abuse. It is really hard for me to open myself to hearing how he is feeling when I am being told ‘I suck’ and I am a ‘selfish bitch’ (that one came tonight at the football game because I did not sit where he thought I should, posted something about that in Wayward forum).

I wonder if his narcissistic tendencies have him believing that there is no way I would actually leave him. He use to tell me I had a ‘free pass’ to sleep with someone during our M. That ‘pass’ was given to me because I had never been with anyone other than my STBXH. He always felt that I would be curious and wanted me to know that I had this ‘free pass’ as long as I told him about it once it happened. (although I did not tell him about the A after the first time, so therfore it doesn't count for the pass-- No Duhh) Our friends thought he was crazy when we talked about the free pass. When they would confront him about how nuts this is, his reply was “well, I know who she has to wake up next to every morning. And she would not sacrifice what we have for a free pass type of guy”. I wonder if he is just in pure shock that I gave up on asking for him to come back to me and now accepting his rejection. I have been wondering that if this anger is now stemming from disbelief that I am willing to walk away.

Again, thank you so much!!!