SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Brandon808:

You've said you think she is genuinely remorseful.

She isn't. There isn't one action to support that notion.

It *could* be argued that she has (or, well, had) stopped avoiding me and was much more open to face-to-face discussion... but I won't argue that. I will, however, go back on "remorseful" and substitute "ridden with guilt and shame." Remorse, as you suggest, would entail actions and changes in behavior. I know the guilt and shame are real, but remorse would involve getting out from under "H" and just wanting to be with me.

I know I'm blocked in certain ways, and I feel unable to do things like, say, dump her and move on. I figure she's blocked in terms of "H," because she knows, rationally, that he's a complete putz, that he's not good for her at all, and that he'll hurt her badly if she doesn't get out... but she seems to feel unable to get out. I'm not defending her, but I understand that (though I don't sympathize). I think.

You also mentioned how she has had no interest in sex and wants to do family outings instead of dates with you.

Brother she has made her choice. Forget what she is saying because that is all over the map.

Now, that's not fair. She apparently has *plenty* of interest in sex -- just not with me.

Again, I think the family outings are more about testing the waters and keeping herself "safe" than anything else, because she *knows* it's torture for me to sit there wondering what the hell's going on in her head, and do I have any right or reason to hope, etc. You echo the 180, which echoes "I Heard it Through the Grapevine":

"People say believe half of what you see, son, and none of what you hear."

Turn down the volume and look at her actions.

She started an A

She moved out

She is still in contact with OM

She will not do MC

I keep thinking that this stuff *could* change -- i.e., the contact with "H," the willingness to do marriage counseling -- because she's given me signs (however few) that are somewhat encouraging. That might have been even more cruel of her than just ignoring me. I don't know.

Meanwhile, as I say, I really don't know that she's definitely still seeing "H," but I do know that they're still in that show together, and that's gonna last through April. It's agony, but I'm feeling like I should wait and see how "together" they are then. I'm also feeling like I should find a way to make myself not be so damn patient.

Sorry for the 2x4 but your M doesn't have 3 people in it...it has 1...you. She removed herself from the M in every way except legally (i.e. filing for D).

Which she won't do because she can't afford it, and I won't do because I don't want it. Sigh.

And I have to disagree with you on this...

I really don't think she uses crying as a weapon on purpose, but it certainly is a weapon.

Yes, she does. I've seen this before. If you were to truly detach, to not react the way she expects, I guarantee you'd see a quick change.

I believe you. I do. It's that "how to detach" thing. I'm taking the 180 a lot more seriously lately, and (to the extent I can be) I'm determined to smarten up.

Smoky

I wish I had a few thousand dollars to send you.

I would ask you to use the money for the following:

A. To file for divorce and have your wife served at her theater group in front of her Bf "H".

B. to pay your bail money because you should have confronted him in front of the theater group. A guy like that needs to be put down in front of his peers. He deserves that.

-You know what you deserve:

-Your kid to find a job, any job.

-Your wife to sort her issues on her own like in 1982 the first time she pulled this crap.

-You to stop paying all these therapists, listen to bigger and buffalo and divorce this woman.

Now I will tell you why I admire you.

Because you really, really love your wife and family.

And even though she deserves to be left behind you have not given up on her.

I admire your honesty.

I just hope she does not end up breaking your heart.

If I win the lottery I will PM.

I wish you and your son the best.

HM64

happyman64:

I wish I had a few thousand dollars to send you.

Me too, my man.

I would ask you to use the money for the following:

A. To file for divorce and have your wife served at her theater group in front of her Bf "H".

I'll tell you this: If I wanted the divorce and could afford to file, that's how I'd do it.

B. to pay your bail money because you should have confronted him in front of the theater group. A guy like that needs to be put down in front of his peers. He deserves that.

That's *way* better than he deserves. I still haven't thought of an adequate punishment.

Might have mentioned this, but a few weeks ago a friend was telling me that in college, his relationship was on the wane, and his girlfriend announced that she'd made out with a mutual acquaintance. My friend drove to the guy's workplace to confront him -- no plan in mind -- and ended up decking him. (This is an otherwise gentle, laid-back guy.) As several guys are holding him back from doing more damage, the guy yells, "I'm not the problem! Your girlfriend is! Talk to her!" My friend says, "The thing that pissed me off the most is that he was right," adding that punching the guy didn't make him feel better.

I thought, "Know what? Even so, the guy *still* deserved to cold-cocked. He knew she was with someone else -- would it have given him lung cancer to keep his hands off?"

This, of course, is the nice version of how I feel about "H." I mean, I've *socialized* with the guy, so it's not like he's, I dunno, hurting someone he doesn't know, and therefore that's somehow okay.

-You know what you deserve:

-Your kid to find a job, any job.

-Your wife to sort her issues on her own like in 1982 the first time she pulled this crap.

-You to stop paying all these therapists, listen to bigger and buffalo and divorce this woman.

The only thing I disagree with is the divorce. I really don't want one. As you point out, I really, really do love her, and for over 30 years. I'm afraid that the divorce will happen anyway, and everything about that is terrifying, but I want her back because I want us to be together, not because of the fear of being alone. (That's not to say there's no fear of being alone.)

Also... I'm pretty sure I need the therapy anyway, regardless of my marital situation.

Now I will tell you why I admire you.

Because you really, really love your wife and family.

And even though she deserves to be left behind you have not given up on her.

I admire your honesty.

I just hope she does not end up breaking your heart.

That's the big one.

At this divorce recovery group I started going to, the guy who runs the "beginners" group tells his story every week, with everybody going around in a circle and telling theirs. (That is, we *sit* in a circle, and take turns; we don't walk around in circles -- it just *feels* like that.) Each time he says, "Whenever I had to pick up or drop off my kids, it felt like I was going through the divorce all over again."

That's kind of how it is whenever I see my wife, even in less stressful situations like our "family outing" over the weekend. She's supposed to come home and, I dunno, watch TV, then go to bed with her husband at the end of the night, but no.

If I win the lottery I will PM.

I wish you and your son the best.

Thanks so much. I appreciate your concern and kind words. I just wish this all wasn't so damn hard.

Smoky,

I have read this thread off and on, for quite sometime. I just caught up on the last few pages.

I have avoided commenting because I have been afraid of hurting you even more during this excruciatingly painful point in your life.

But Smoky, I can no longer hold back.

I feel like I am watching a man drown, and refusing to help him.

Someone said:

Because you really, really love your wife and family.

And that ^^^^^ is quite clear. But, Smoky, there is someone you do not love in this scenario, and Smoky honey, that person is you.

You may *think* your WW loves you, but sweetie, I don't think she does. People that love each other don't treat each other like she is treating you.

Sweetie, I feel she is using you, and abusing your forgiving nature. She is using you as a back up plan while waiting on her asshole AP to leave his wife, or whatever.

Smoky, please, please, please love yourself more than this. You are addicted to her, and as we all know, addiction is not healthy. Please free yourself from this addiction, and love YOURSELF!

I pray for you find the peace that only breaking these chains of addiction to her can bring you.

I wish you well Smoky.

I'm kind of afraid to say so because she really seems to want these outings

.

Smoky, soft 2x4 coming:

She KNOWS you are afraid!! And she is milkin' it for all it's worth

"She seems to really want them" Oh sweetie, I am SO sorry but that is YOUR wishful thinking!! Unless you asked her, or she stated this, it is still just you looking for the light, looking for hope. We have all BTDT.

I haven't read your thread for a while because my heart just breaks for you.

I wish we could all just snap our fingers and this shit would disappear from our lives, but "it ain't gonna happen"

Please please please find your anger, find your strength.

Listen to the advice, it is all the same:

Dump her!!!!!!

Heal yourself first.

IF, and that is such a HUGE IF, she pulls her head out of her ass, well then, then you may have a decision to make, but right now: save yourself.

You are drowning in a sea of fear (BTDT too!), we are throwing you the life lines, please pick up one of them.

YOU DESERVE IT!!!

Sending hugs too.

Just want to say if you do make the brave decision to divorce there is life beyond the pain of finding out your wife cheated on you.

I'm coming up 15 months out.

I've not seen my wife for just over a year now having made the decision my life was mine and not for her to use any more.

It's been hard. I've been suicidal, depressed, still depressed now just not as much, still miss her some days. Still worry if she's ok.

I know she's a train wreck, slept with almost double figure guys since we've split trying to make herself feel good about herself.

She'll never change. But I will.

I lost my daughter as part of the marriage breakdown as we were adopting. That hurts like hell but she's with a new family now. It's her 3rd birthday in 3 days time.

Having given notice that I wanted to divorce it took me 7 painfull months to actually file the papers. I didn't want to divorce her but sometimes it's the only realistic way to avoid being hurt by the person you love evey day for the rest of your life.

I'm only just getting around to selling our home. I'd been clinging on to it.

I happier now.

Started seeing another girl a couple of months ago that I NEVER thought would happen.

Am now almost ontop of my finances after a year with very little work and am considering emigrating.

I love my family and friends even more now that I ever have.

I've found out the people who really are my friends.

She doesn't matter so much any more.

If you divorce it won't be the end of the world as much as it feels that way now.

Be kind to your kids and yourself.

Looking back I wish I'd done everything so much quicker but in part I'm glad I methodically worked through everything as I don't have any "I wish I'd tried that" thoughts as I did most everything I could.

It's your life and your choices.

Just don't waste any more of it on someone who doesn't deserve any more of you.

Immediate intensive remorse in my opinion is the only way a marriage could survive. Someone who has to be brought out of the fog, or worked for, will never truly be someone worth being with:

Good luck.

[This message edited by foreverempty at 8:59 AM, February 23rd (Saturday)]

Oh, forgot to say what made me wake up.

After almost 2 months of promises that she wasn't seeing MOM and that she wanted to work on us and that she loved me and wanted us to be a family, I found out she was still in daily contact.

That was my decision day.

I'm glad I found out as I was so "in love" with her I would have given up every day of the rest of my life trying to make her realise I was the one for her.

In reality I was the one for her to use financially and emotionally, whilst she was the one who wanted other people to use her vagina.

Smokey...

Just checkin in on ya, bro....been a few days...

Bufffalo

I want to get to the other messages I haven't responded to, but I've been in a bit of a work crunch.

bufffalo:

Just checkin in on ya, bro....been a few days...

Hi -- much appreciated.

Not a lot to report, which could be good. Was out of town for a few days, at my mom's.

A friend provided this analogy, which I thought was helpful:

"Imagine trying to control your wife through a fishing pole.  There you are with the fishing rod in your hands, and there's 380 feet of fishing line between you and her.  You can only tug on her, you can't push her back or move her laterally.  You can't communicate over the fishing line, you can't really do anything.  There are you are, standing on the other side of an interstate freeway trying your best with this little fishing pole, it's bending, the line is wavering a lot, and all you can do is tug.  It's deeply frustrating and it's also humiliating.  It's a state of powerlessness.    I want you to decide finally, once and for all, that you have had ENOUGH of powerlessness, and that you deserve better, because you do.  Think about this.  Say ENOUGH! to yourself.  Your wife will come back on her own, in her own time.  Take a stand for yourself against limbo, against powerlessness.  Just tell yourself that you're TIRED of this shit.  Do this, and your life will begin to change for the better."

Of course, I haven't adhered entirely. I've wanted to speak with my wife alone, face to face, to say, "Look, it pains me to say this, but I don't think it's a good idea for us to spend time together as long as you're with 'H.' When that's over, let me know."

But the other day she texted, asking to bring dinner over and spend some time with us before going to rehearsal. I should have said no -- I actually was supposed to go to the divorce recovery group at a nearby church -- but I said "Sure" without even really thinking. (The other factor is that I might be souring a bit on the group. They're all very nice and well meaning, but the atmosphere is, well, too churchy. I've started attending a men's group on Thursday nights -- a lot smaller, and a lot more swearing....)

So she got here around 7:30, and mostly the three of us sat and talked about why our son doesn't have a job, and then she left around 8:30.

We have not talked about anything meaningful since the 14th, when she said she's backing off and would rather communicate via text. I want to believe, though, that these little get-togethers are about her easing her way back in. I *want* to believe that. In fact, I don't think either of us knows what she's doing.

This choice on her part...

We have not talked about anything meaningful since the 14th, when she said she's backing off and would rather communicate via text.

...does not support this...

I want to believe, though, that these little get-togethers are about her easing her way back in.

She's not easing her way back into the house. These visits seem more like her establishing a co-parenting routine. I also believe she's soothing her conscience by acting like you two get along just fine.

Her coming over is not wrong.

You agreeing to her coming over is not wrong.

Having any expectations or hopes her coming over will lead to R is wrong.

There is no easing your way back in. She has to earn her way back in and she's made it clear she isn't choosing that.