SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hopeful10: "tell me all of these imagined things I was doing"

But I have been doing all those things. I am very volatile, and try to read minds, and then attribute to him what I have imagined. Many times I am completely off.

But for years I was not...he has confirmed it with his statement that he never realized what it meant to "be one" and he finally understands it and feels it. He is sad for all the years he missed out of because of his "island" attitude which he always denied when I brought it to the forefront.

I'm wondering if now that he is allowing feelings he had stuffed since he was 10, that conflict with me hurts that much more, and he is turning to the D threat to shield himself...that is actually what he said, "It hurts too much, and I don't want to be abused anymore." I actually feel that way myself. I mull around D as the only means I have to shield myself from further pain.

He says I abuse him verbally and emotionally. I do have a temper, and I slapped him once a few months back when he was yelling in my face. He had never yelled at me like that before. I was yelling, then he got fed up and did it back...times 5. He slapped me back, and I called him something like a jerk. I slapped him a second time so he wouldn't think he could scare me. He held my arms because he thought I was going to continue to slap him (which I wasn't, unless he slapped me again) and I told him to let me go. I had to struggle for him to let me go. This is the first and only time there was a physical altercation. I couldn't believe he slapped me-I stepped backwards with the power. No gentleman slaps a woman, and I told him that. He said he will not let me slap him. He's 6'3 180 lbs, I'm 5'5 122 lbs. He was yelling in my face, and I felt intimidated. I was defending myself and trying to let him know I wasn't going to be yelled at like that. (He has never done that before or since.)

Our teenaged son used to intimidate me like that. I was told by police to stand my ground or he would continue to behave that way. He quit intimidating me and cursing at me when I chased him around with a belt. (He is 6 feet tall and 17 yrs. old.) So when my H yelled in my face, just inches away, the instinct came back.

He asked me last night to just be "kind" to him, like I would a friend. He said I treat him worse than I would other people. I would agree. However, I believe he has treated me worse than he has treated anyone...ever, and I don't know how long it will take for my trust and sense of security to be reestablished...if ever.

Last week he repeated with bitterness what my IC told him in our last meeting, that he should be thankful every day that I am still with him. He seemed to hate that concept, or the position of being thankful to me. But a couple of months ago, he said he couldn't believe I let him stay after what he did. He realized that what he did was basically kill me when he had the A and asked for D. All of the sudden he thinks he should be done with all that, and I have to not hurt him with my own pain anymore.

I think he is going through some tremendous, unfamiliar (for him) feelings, and he can't handle them. Especially when he has been trying so hard, and the very person he loves gets angry and says hurtful things.

But I am also a person with feelings. I am going to tell him that I know I will not be humanly capable of keeping his list, and that he needs to D me if needs to.

My heart breaks, I can feel it physically hurting, my stomach is in knots, I haven't eaten anything since yesterday afternoon (I'm drinking fluids, though, and taking my vitamins...just can't eat) ILH and don't want to give up on us, on me, on him. But I can't live with a hatchet of D over my head for the rest of my life, and unless he takes it back and acknowledges how wrong it was to do the D papers thing, I won't ever feel safe with him.

This is an extremely abusive relationship. Regardless of who hit who first, it's become violent. I urge you to call to a Domestic violence center. If not for yourself than for your children.

Last week he repeated with bitterness what my IC told him in our last meeting, that he should be thankful every day that I am still with him. He seemed to hate that concept, or the position of being thankful to me

IMHO, you should go file the papers yourself and come home and tell him that you saved him the trouble.

He's going to jerk you around and beat you to emotional death forever. Staying with him, as he is now, is soul suicide for you.

Detach, at the very least, so that you have room to gain some perspective on the *reality* of who he is without having to listen to him *tell you* who he is.

And please, please....stop making excuses for his abusive behavior. He is NOT *trying so hard*. He just isn't.

It's a really bad idea to keep going around with your boundries down like this with him. He's just walking all over you.

You get THAT upset when you are relying on HIM to be decent and act for your behalf. Well he is obviously making lists where you are expected to take the blame he is projecting on you and make it up to HIM.

You can hear him out, but you don't have to agree.

I am with the other posters. Work on YOU. In fact I would pretty much ignore him and focus on YOU. He can make as many lists as he likes, but until he comes up with something sensible, you don't have to do a thing.

the filling of the divorce papers in front of you like that is him bullying you. what a drama llama. stand your ground, because if don't learn to do it soon, and enforce boundries, AND work through the co-dependancy, this will be your life until you do.

Didn't we all agree to a certain "list" when we took our vows? Our spouses chose to ignore that "list" why should you honor this new "list" of his? He needs to shove that list right up his ass!! He either gets with the program 110% or he gets the boot!!!

I'm wondering if now that he is allowing feelings he had stuffed since he was 10, that conflict with me hurts that much more, and he is turning to the D threat to shield himself...that is actually what he said, "It hurts too much, and I don't want to be abused anymore." I actually feel that way myself. I mull around D as the only means I have to shield myself from further pain.

^^^ Is one thing, and I agree with you. When a previously emotionally unavailable person taps into this, it is very difficult for them, and they make a number of false steps. BUT, he cheated on you, and you are healing and angry and you have every right to be. That is the road he has to travel in order to save the marriage. You have a right to your feelings.

If your marriage is abusive, and it sounds like it is at the very least emotionally abusive at this point given the level of manipulation going on, there is no way to reconcile.

If YOU feel like there is a problem with your behavior that makes YOU uncomfortable, go to IC. Don't let him bully you into taking blame for the level of conflict in your marriage. That is a two way street. If he were doing a single thing to help you heal, I suspect your behavior would be markedly different.

I understand your hurt and anger,my heart goes out to you, I know you want to keep your family together for your kids, where are your kids when this fighting is going on?

This relationship is dysfunctional and abusive on both your parts, you both need to let go of your anger, resentment, bitterness,or it will never work, when things start to escalate to where they are now you both need to walk away, and think about things. Have a cooling down period. Maybe instead of having discussions now while things are tense, you could write letters back and forth,concerning touchy issues, and try live in the here and now the rest of the time, the only time you discuss the betrayals is in written correspondence, many couples that are able to discuss things rationally, set aside time to discuss things,

Have you expressed kindly what he can do to help you when you have a trigger?

His list sucks big time, he doesn't get to call the shots,he needs to own what he has done,it takes hard work to repair a relationship after betrayal, but it can be done,

Is he in IC? Do you have access to talk to his counselor? Could he have a personality disorder? not that that it is a free ticket to betray your partner, have either of you been to an anger management course?

How many times over the years that you have been married, has he threatened divorce? cause is screams control and manipulation

Your teen sons behavior trying to intimidate you, was learned some where, is that how things have always been, that your WH kinda intimidates and bullies to get things his way?

He says I abuse him verbally and emotionally. I do have a temper, and I slapped him once a few months back when he was yelling in my face. He had never yelled at me like that before. I was yelling, then he got fed up and did it back...times 5. He slapped me back, and I called him something like a jerk. I slapped him a second time so he wouldn't think he could scare me. He held my arms because he thought I was going to continue to slap him (which I wasn't, unless he slapped me again) and I told him to let me go. I had to struggle for him to let me go. This is the first and only time there was a physical altercation. I couldn't believe he slapped me-I stepped backwards with the power. No gentleman slaps a woman, and I told him that. He said he will not let me slap him. He's 6'3 180 lbs, I'm 5'5 122 lbs. He was yelling in my face, and I felt intimidated. I was defending myself and trying to let him know I wasn't going to be yelled at like that. (He has never done that before or since.)

t/j here:

I understand your hurt, frustration, anger, etc., etc. but you slapped him because he yelled at you after you yelled at him? You admit that you have a temper and it appears that you think he's just supposed to take whatever level of abuse your anger escalates to.

I'm sorry but there is NEVER a good reason for anyone to hit another person in anger - male or female. You don't have a right to hit him and then be astonished that he hit you back. At that point it was self-defense really regardless of your size. You had the ability to walk away.

Two wrongs will never make a right. He most definitely messed up by cheating, and you have every reason to be angry, but that does not grant you the right to be physically abusive.

Thank you all for your input. Yes our relationship has been dysfunctional...in cycles before and after the A. I have behaved badly in cycles (temper...not hitting, but getting angry and chewing him out. I let things build up and am like a volcano with him.

Two wrongs will never make a right. He most definitely messed up by cheating, and you have every reason to be angry, but that does not grant you the right to be physically abusive.

Yes, you are right. That is the one and only time I have done that, or he has. I believe the only time he was ever slapped was by his mother when he was a teenager, and he wasn't about to have someone think they could slap him. I was wrong, and even though it has been months since that happened, I need to apologize.

We talked this morning and I told him I can't live with D hanging over my head, because I know I am going to do something on the list, so he needs to just D.

He said he doesn't expect perfection, just to know I am working on it. He said he thinks I might be right about him being more sensitive since he is allowing himself to feel real emotional intimacy. He also said that yesterday he was thinking that I am the one person who loves him and does the most for him in the world, and he is the one who loves me and does the most for me in the world and we should keep that in mind always and treat and appreciate each other for caring so much.

Someone from D told me I take things too literally, which is what started this whole row and led to the list. She is right...I am too literal...I'm not very creative or flexible, and I need to know everything.

I still don't think his list is a bad list. It is just that I knew I couldn't keep it all. Now that I know he has some grace and will not go to D immediately the next time (and there will be a next time...hopefully less and less though) I blow up, I feel better about the list.

I want him to treat me the same ways the list requires of me to treat him, and for the most part (of course excluding the A) he does, and always has. That is why the A was so unexpected and knocked me for a loop.

Thank you all for your patience and advice...and for reading my long posts...I am too wordy, but I don't know how to condense things.

I forgot to say that today he reiterated that he was thankful every day that he is with me. He also wants me to hang in there with him while his new found emotional vulnerability evens out. He also recently had been given a new position at his job which was adding to his insecurity, and combine that with recently buying a house that is more expensive than we had planned...he was getting used to the idea. He said that he had to process it, and that even if he couldn't make the payments, he wouldn't get thrown in jail, the bank would just take it back. He is super responsible and not a risk taker, but the house was perfect for us in that it was a fixer-upper that is very nice, just trashed by the former owners. We would pay much more to rent this house than to own it, and the responsiblity for such a nice house scared him more when he was under stress for other things.

hemademesingle: Maybe instead of having discussions now while things are tense, you could write letters back and forth,concerning touchy issues, and try live in the here and now the rest of the time, the only time you discuss the betrayals is in written correspondence, many couples that are able to discuss things rationally, set aside time to discuss things,[\quote]

I like this.

I really appreciate SI, and the opinions and insights people have here. He has been doing a lot since the A (4 years ago) and he has not been perfect. I think I expected perfection, and sometimes it seems BS'es here on SI expect perfection. We are in our own pain, and don't have the energy or trust to allow the WS to make mistakes...even if they are not A related.

OK, not hit me with a 2x4 again! I've gotten some very good insight here.

[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 7:56 PM, April 28th (Sunday)]