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No oral makes R one step easier for us, but it's a long journey with a lot of steps.

I laughed at this. For a brief moment I thought, maybe things would have been easier if my wife hadn't given out a BJ.

It doesn't matter. If you get stabbed in the back, it doesn't matter if it goes in at an angle, sideways, or it gets twisted, it's still pain from a knife in the back.

Seems to me there's a bigger chance at an STD with oral since everyone seems to think condoms are only for birth control.

cletuswv -

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My "deal breaker " , or line-in-the-sand, if you will, gradually moved as I asked questions. Bottom line is my fWW had a PA. She has answered all of my questions and I now know what they did and where they did it, but I remember her response when I first asked her "what they did". She took a big breath and was in tears and said we "did everything that people having affairs do". Naturally she hates everything about it now but that's what the "fog" does to a person.

[This message edited by BW2639 at 3:09 PM, May 3rd (Friday)]

It doesn't matter. If you get stabbed in the back, it doesn't matter if it goes in at an angle, sideways, or it gets twisted, it's still pain from a knife in the back.

Amen to that NotDefeatedYet. That's the real issue, if we're being honest with ourselves. Someone we loved and trusted betrayed us. My wife denies giving oral but admitted that pretty much everything else happened. She could be telling the truth, or trying to make me believe that she withheld that one thing for me. Whatever. Her betrayal of our marriage over a 10-11 month time period, and our ability to get over that and R, are the real issues.

one problem here is too many people here are saying what would be a deal breaker for them.....cause you didnt have to deal with it.

Pre-A 99% of you wouls have said an affair would be a dealbreaker...now its blowjobs and going down are a deal breaker...

sorry...just a frustrating thing I get here as of late...

truth is...no one know what they would do unless they are faced with it...its just a "guess"

I lived with a girlfriend before my wife, and I thought she was cheating on me. I kicked her out immediately. Put more than a decade and three kids into it and, what I wouldn't have hesitated to do before, now causes me to pause and consider the whole of the situation.

[Quote]one problem here is too many people here are saying what would be a deal breaker for them.....cause you didnt have to deal with it.

Pre-A 99% of you wouls have said an affair would be a dealbreaker...now its blowjobs and going down are a deal breaker...

sorry...just a frustrating thing I get here as of late...

truth is...no one know what they would do unless they are faced with it...its just a "guess"

I agree with Long Gone here. I know how I was before I felt the burn and pain of infidelity. I know that WGF gave oral. Her statement, she "started with just giving blowjobs because . . . " she didn't want to have sex. I recall a thread which discussed how many women view giving oral as the lesser sexual act. I obviously felt differently but again, what you thought you couldn't deal with before ever experiencing it is pretty much your mind defending yourself from an outlandishly big unknown.

Fact for most is, our SOs have had relationships before ours. They've done extremely intimate and sexual things with other people that they thought fondly of in some way. It just so happens that they may have done some of those similar things again but while in a committed relationship with us. The WSs broken mentality and selfishness is what matters. If you want to put limits on what is too much, that's fine, your heart will tell you if that's true or not, not your words.

[This message edited by Brokenheart777 at 5:32 PM, May 3rd (Friday)]

***IMO*** I wouldn't believe that a physical affair took place without oral sex.

I guess it could happen but doubtful in my book.

I never asked for such details because ***IMO*** an affair is an affair.

For those of you who feel that would be a deal breaker for you your spouse might know about you and decide to keep that detail to themselves.

The whole thought process a WS has regarding oral not being as bad as intercourse is probably a very childish reasoning. Think back to high school. Oral sex was never considered "going all the way". So perhaps they have maintained the same high school mentality that without penetration they didn't "go all the way" therefore it was not as damaging. To me, you kiss, touch or you perform or receive oral sex you have now committed a sexual act even if it does not end with penetration and that is still cheating.

X did both. Strangely, neither one seems "worse" to me. They were both incredible breaches of trust. One thing that does bother me though, is how proud of himself he seemed that they used protection when they had sex (gives lie to that whole "unplanned" thing, huh??), but not when they had oral sex. Despite the months of hysterical bonding after day, there was never anymore oral sex between him and I. I just couldn't....

"No oral makes R one step easier for us, but it's a long journey with a lot of steps."

I laughed at this. For a brief moment I thought, maybe things would have been easier if my wife hadn't given out a BJ.

NotDefeatedYet, I hope what I said didn't sound offensive. I meant that for me personally, it would be one more obstacle (out of 100's) to get over if my WH had given OW oral. It would be a particularly tough one for me because of my personal feelings re oral on women. My post also says that I've thrown out the whole concept of deal breakers.

I agree that betrayal is betrayal and it's hell.

I agree with the original poster that oral sex is much more intimate. My WH did that will all of his affair partners.

I am so grossed out.

I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone by saying oral would be a deal breaker for me. You're right, since it's something I don't have to deal with I can't say for sure.

What I can say for sure is that, to me, a man giving oral sex to a woman is much, much more intimate than sex. I honestly don't believe that is something I could live with, my WH performing that particular act on someone else.

I actually believe my WH when he says it didn't happen. When I asked him about he he was surprised, even shocked, at the idea. Then again almost all of his A's were with whores, so it wasn't like he was worried about her enjoyment. It was simply a transaction.

This is such a big issue for me that I could barely click on the link to this thread. I am halfway to a panic attack as I write. Because of this:

***IMO*** I wouldn't believe that a physical affair took place without oral sex.

I believe this as well. I know what my husband does in bed. I know that he did this. It is infinitely worse than the intercourse to me bc that is mutual. This is giving. It was for her, not him. Which means....well I can't really make myself type it, but you can see the obvious conclusion to draw.

The thought of it makes it hard to breathe.

I try to dump all the sordid details about the A into one big "crazy basket", but this one is hard. I haven't asked bc I know what the answer will be. Which is kind of crazy in and of itself actually.

I think this is one of the things that will take the longest to fade. If it ever does.....

The A as a whole is a dealbreaker for me. WH claims there was no oral either way. They only had sex once and it was a humiliating experience that ended the A. I am, however, fighting against my natural inclination to D by giving WH a chance to change and become the man and father he is capable of being. I am giving my children the chance to grow up in a healed and healthy family. As a Christian I don't believe anyone is beyond redemption so I am practising that belief...but if I cannot grow to love WH again then we will D. I will not martyr myself...WH has taken more from me than he has ever deserved and I have given him more than I ever should have and in the process completely lost myself. Through therapy I am reaching a balance in that and so is WH but there are no guarantees this M will survive his A.

I know ws did oral on ow, that's his thang Kwim? I know she reciprocated. For some reason I do feel bj is less intimate than him doing it on her. Then again if I was a man and my wife did it, I would prob feel like that was intimate idk, it all is betrayal and there have been lines crossed DLL over the fn place..geez the fact that my ws texted ow a catrillion times was a.line crosser.

Had my ws just received a bj or had he just had intercourse, it would still be horrible but him going down on her..I agree with a previous poster, that was for HER and that PISSES ME OFF!!

I feel like this thread has become sort of like an inverted stab at others who experienced a situation differently...

we must be careful not to label and judge others situations because we may be kicking others who are already down by rubbing it in there face why if "we were in there shoes, how much more horrible it would be..."

one problem here is too many people here are saying what would be a deal breaker for them.....cause you didnt have to deal with it.

Pre-A 99% of you wouls have said an affair would be a dealbreaker...now its blowjobs and going down are a deal breaker...

sorry...just a frustrating thing I get here as of late...

truth is...no one know what they would do unless they are faced with it...its just a "guess"

everyone here is not in good place and for the most part i think we are all dealing with or have dealt with our signifigant other doing things that we thought were once upon a time so intimate that they would be a deal breaker.

short term or long term

emotional or physical

oral or genital

who cares...comparing our situation with others is not a healthy way to deal with our problems or support the situations of others here. Most people here need comfort not judgement.

personally for me sex is sex oral or genital...its the EA thats gets me...but i cant say that someone else situation is my deal breaker cause you really dont know til your in there shoes...

why would kissing a person who gave oral be any different than letting them be sexual with you in other ways when there penises and vaginas were all intertwined with anothers..just as gross...or if you have ever gave them oral after the affair or during just as gross...

also in this world of deception unless youve had a poly done you may be saying something is a deal breaker that happened an you just dont know it...be careful what you say...

agree with WE.

A little surprised to read certain responses.

I have no idea how someone could take the word of their WS about what activities they engaged in.

Sex is sex. Betrayal is betrayal.

I have no idea how someone could take the word of their WS about what activities they engaged in.

Quite frankly since this thread started, I've been wondering how many people here really truly believe that their WS didn't have oral with their AP.

If they had the opportunity, and it's a sexual activity that they generally enjoy, why wouldn't they do it with the AP? Or even if they aren't really into it, maybe the AP is and the WS wants to "impress" them.

The only way I could imagine believing that they didn't, is if they really truly hated and objected to the act. And even then I'd have doubts. Or if they were Pinocchio, and I could physically tell every time they were lying or not.

As for my personal situation, my WH had 3.5 months with his APs alone in a hotel on a different continent, and quite frankly there is not a single sex act that I would doubt happened. He loves to go "down there", and therefore there is no way in hell I would ever believe him if he said he hadn't. I haven't even asked, I'm that sure about it, and I don't need to hear the words.