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H had PA's with 8 OW in 3 years. The first two years, I had no idea!! We had just had our first baby and I was working full time while breastfeeding him for a year. Things were bad between us, really bad. I was comfortable being in misery, but nevertheless M and faithful. I always believed tough times didn't last for long. Boy, was I wrong!! A couple years later, HE wanted to have another child. I agreed, so our child would have a companion. I suspected, asked, but really was in denial, I wasn't ready for the truth because I was pregnant for second time. Four months after birth of second baby, "I" found out.

In retrospective, the first 2 years, I had NO IDEA. The last year, when he met LTA OW, that's when I knew. He wouldn't kiss me, make out with me, let alone make love to me. I remember making him a cd of love songs for V day and he cried. Bc of guilt, hell, I don't know. But, I do believe that he loved her. I felt like he still loved me with OW. But, when this LTA OW came in the picture, that's when I knew. So, there it is. I think he loved her. Although he denies it up and down because he lied to her. It devestates me.

I'm new to this so forgive me if you find me utterly unhelpful.

But I am curious was does he say he felt towards OW? Whether it be lust or love, or lust colored into love, or just plain infatuation there must have been some feelings behind the action right?

Love isn't selfish; love is giving.

An affair is inherently selfish.

I'm sure meth heads "love" meth too.

Hopefulguy, he says he never loved her, she was just someone to drink with plus benefits. At best it was infatuation or else he wouldn't have lied to her. I spoke with OW and she loved him. I felt so bad for her, she had no idea! My brain still tortures my heart believing he loved her. Come on, over a year with same OW??

I think I can. You're hilarious! Yes, I KNOW he loved beer first, then high of OW, and me somewhere in there... :( He actually compares himself to a druggie, but with booze instead of drugs.

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 2:07 PM, May 10th (Friday)]

Well, he loved you too and it didn't stop him from selfishly doing anything he damn well pleased. There's unselfish love (like we have when we give the bums another chance) and there's selfish love like he had. He wasn't protecting the AP from being hurt and he sure wasn't protecting you. Where's the love in that?

Love is a verb and it requires loving actions. Maybe he once knew how to love and maybe he can learn how to do it again, but he sure wasn't showing anyone love during the A.

My WS said she loved the Om. Said it in txt, email, phone, in person, after sex. Her last contact, after she said she would agree to NC, was "Good Bye My Love".

Here is a really good love test:

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." 1 Corinthians 13:4-7

Did it pass? No?! Notice I am not shocked.

My WH and the OW signed off every email with Love You.

He swears he didn't love her, but who knows.

Don't have any advice or words to make the hurt go away. I wish I did for all of us.

Shit, they all "lurrrvvve" their AP while in the high of the A. But if it was real, why is he still with you, probably going through the hell they go through as we process and try to heal? I luurrrved my first boyfriend when I was grade 7. And the one in grade 8 and grade 9. You know, I cant think of a single guy I dated that I didn't luuurve. The beginnings of relationships go that way - then reality sets in. He didn't love her, he loved the way he felt - the newness, the excitement, the butterflies in the stomach... That's puppy love and completely pathetic in anyone over 18.

LMAO. You're too funny, Nora!! And, you made me so happy! I think I need to hear the truth sometimes. The lies in my head drive me nuts.

He liked the stroke of his ego. Because I was too busy breastfeeding and changing poopy diapers, while working 12 hour days!!! Man, our lives sucked back then! haha. Things are much, much, a thousand times better now. He even has a "grown up" job, not bartending with college kids anymore. So, that's a plus.

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 4:35 PM, May 10th (Friday)]

I'm glad I made you smile :) real love = real life and real life is full of poopy diapers and scary responsibilities. The A offers an escape and they fool themselves into thinking there'd be no poop if they're with the ow. What they don't see until its too late, is that the OW is one big turd!!

And when you go thru the shit, and you keep loving each other--it just can't compare to the puppy love stuff.

Or maybe he was really 'in love' with the *escape* from reality..??

Also for some individuals, i.e., these cheaters who are seem to be psychologically stunted, it takes them longer to mature and learn how to truly love, for real. They don't learn how to have real authentic relas when they're children- like the rest of us (!), so they have to screw up a few times as adults to learn how much pain that causes (others & them)- to realize that doesn't work. Unfortunately we're the 'collateral damage' while they're catching up to the rest of us, and working all this stuff out.

Yaaaay, lucky us...!!

I knew for a,long time before WH got caught in an A that his first love was vodka. Somehow, I didn't take that as personally. Is your WH sober now?

Yes, I, too think he loved the idea of the fantasy world he created, in which he lied to OW about who he was, what he did for a living, etc. He sort of role played with them.

He's a dry drunk. Since I had a 6 month TT package, he drank maybe 6 times in last 6 months at times when we were arguing and/or seperated or when I kicked him out a few times.

His last drink was on our anniversay last month. That way, we can celebrate at a month, 2 months, etc. It's crazy. He's a different person sober. I like him. lol. He's starting to love himself again. He got a new phone, NC with OW since I first found out 6 months ago, new job!!, getting a new car. He's becoming a new man and I'm so proud of him.

[This message edited by libertyrocks at 10:45 AM, May 13th (Monday)]

Hopeful guy, we will find out his feelings for her tomorrow at MC. I don't think he even really knows. He was drunk most of the time...

I think Nora is spot on.

My H told me while we were separated that he "would always have a special place in my heart but I'm in love with her now". I laughed...

I knew then what it took him months to see. He wasn't in love with her. He was in love with the fantasy. The escape. The ego-boost.

He now admits that it was fantasy land, complete with Unicorns and their skittles. He now understands that REAL love comes from time together, shared memories, building a life together, poopie diapers and all. Real love is what he has, and always had, with me!

Unfortunately, some waywards never really pull their heads out OR maybe they weren't really committed to the relationship to begin with. Only they could answer that question...

I hope your H can understand the difference one day and help you heal from the mess he created.