SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

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Welcome brother. Sorry you have found us but glad you did. You are not alone.

There is a phenomena known as Hysterical Bonding. You can read about it in the Healing Library. Quite normal. Many of us went through it so quick after d-day.

As I have read through all of your posts, the one big thing I see missing is any kind of remorse. With out remorse the marriage has very little chance of surviving. Maybe she is still in the fog or maybe she was looking for a way out. Hard to say based on what your input has been so far.

Her facebook message to the friend thanking him for not coming into the room needs a little more discussion. Obviously he knows what happened and was a willing party to the deed. Forget the bros before ... mentality. It seems it was planned by either her, OM or both.

The only person who has sabatoged anything is her. She wants to be trusted but look where that has gotten her so far. Those with nothing to hide hide nothing.

Your marriage may or not be salvagable. The jury is still out. Her behavior so far is not one that shows she is willing to so that will make it even more difficult. Not saying it is over but unless things change quickly I'm afraid you will have a long road in front of you.

Divorce or reconciling is going to be difficult no matter what path you choose. Regardless, you will survive this and will be all right.

A few things that will be helpful in deciding the path are the following:

Remorse - Willing to do anything and everything to help you heal.

No Contact - not with the facebook friend or the other male.

Transparency - full access to all methods of communication including user id and password for e-mail and facebook. Access to all incoming text/phone/voice messages with out her deleting anything with out your permission first.

Full disclosure - answer to any and all questions you have. I might also suggest you go back to the inappropriate relationship she had five years ago.

Blame shifting - ends today. You will not be a part of her poor decision making. She knew what she was doing. She made the decision. She now needs to live with the consequences she has so justly earned. Statements like "If only you had just said I loved you" and granting you permission to have your own affair to even things up are not signs of her owning this.

Individual counseling first and marriage counseling are well advised. In my (our) case it proved very beneficial.

Eat. Sleep. Exercise. Drink plenty of water.

Feeling pretty crappy right now. Just heard from my wife that she doesn't want anything from me. She says she wants us to work but to not need to support each other. Be two separate people with separate problems. Apparently my depression over the last number of years has taken everything out of her. She feels like she needs to carry me everywhere our relationship goes. I thought I was confused before. She says she doesn't want to trade our problems for other problems with different people. But doesn't want to rely on me for anything? This whole thing is messed up. My optimism for this is dwindling and afraid of the downward spiral that is my life continuing until there's nothing left.

Perhaps a starting point for you is to start thinking what you want your M to be.

And whether what your WW is proposing works for you. Reading between the lines of some of your comments it seems it doesn't. And it's not surprising because it's the usual WW blame shifting. Tell her that.

Tell her what you need. Don't agree to consolation 'it could be worse with someone else arrangements' your WW is apparently satisfied with. You deserve better.

IMHO she's looking for an out and she sounds immature enough that that is just what you should give her.

Cut her loose.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 5:24 AM, May 29th (Wednesday)]

Both have gone for IC now. She wants it to work but I still feel like she's not taking as much responsibility as she should for the affair. Our councillor has said that he wants to see me seperate from her for the first couple of weeks and wants her to see his female counterpart. Then when they feel the underlying issues of why our relationship have been fixed he wants to see us together. Is this the best way from people's experience? I didn't like it at first because I thought she is going to come to a realization that I am not good for her. I've read what everyone has said numerous times. I'm defiantly having a problem letting go of our relationship. She said she's angry at me for being depressed that its taken everything out of her. Then the therapist says I have a disease and she wouldn't be mad at me if I had cancer. She's struggling with this. After IC I did see some optimism in her. We will see where it goes. I think that I'm going to see her start putting the affair on all these underlying issues. I feel that yes those issues are there but she made a decision to do what she did and needs to know that she chose what she did. Is that correct? I think that's what I'm getting from you guys. Still pretty confused on everything....

Your depression was just an excuse for your WW to have an A. It was your fault she cheated on you.

She wanted the OM and she got him. Then she got caught.

She needs to be held accountable for what she's done to you.

Spurs;

I think one of our biggest problem dealing with infidelity is simply we aren’t ready for it. It’s not something that we have thought about, planned or expected to deal with. I find that sometimes it can help to imagine another serious and more tangible situation and talk through how we might react:

Imagine you wake up in the middle of the night and think you smell smoke. Well – you could remain with your eyes closed and simply HOPE it’s not a fire. When the smoke detectors start howling you COULD remain in bed and think it’s a dream. But chances are you would get up, try to discover what’s going on and if it’s a fire then start the process of getting everyone out, calling for help and minimizing the damage. You would never try to negotiate with the flames; you wouldn’t compromise and tell them they can rage on your roof as long as they don’t come in.

When the fire brigade arrives you don’t ask them to take off their boots to protect the carpets. You don’t worry about the water damage. You don’t tell them to leave once the flames are out. You don’t ignore embers and simply hope that they don’t ignite again. It’s only when you are completely secure the fire is out you finally start the process of evaluating damage and deciding whether to rebuild or relocate.

Apply this to your marriage:

Your absolute number one task right now is to make sure your family is safe. Right now the key to making sure the family is safe is making sure the fire is out. Making sure the affair is over. As long as there is even an ember still glowing the house is technically on fire – your marriage is in infidelity.

And just like with a burning house sometimes even the best and most valiant efforts can’t prevent it from burning to the ground. Same with your marriage; you can try all you can with a total 101% effort but you alone can’t save the marriage. You would never enter a house that’s completely on fire, sit down and try to ignore the flames in the hope that ignoring them would make it go away. Nor would you ever sit down in a burning house and think “well – at least it’s warm”.

All the talk about MC, IC, reconciliation… Well – it’s OK but right now it’s really not relevant. Right now your wife is in infidelity mentality even if she isn’t actively seeing OM. Right now she thinks SHE can negotiate from a position of power and set conditions to how, when and why you two remain married.

Reconciling a marriage by oneself is impossible. It has to be a joint effort. Right now it sounds as if she wants to reconcile on her conditions. It won’t work. Not any more than reconciling on what I assume are your initial conditions would work. What I think the toughest part of R could be is that the WS has to realize that for a period of time she is sacrificing some “rights” and for the betrayed spouse that over time you have to give those “rights” back.

Her reactions to date are stereotypical.

Look – I have to be very frank here… If you two have no kids and at this relatively young age then your “easiest” bet is divorce. It’s “easy” in the sense that running a triple marathon while carrying 100 pounds of steel is “easier” than running a triple marathon carrying 200 pounds of steel. Whatever path you choose is going to be hard.

The reasons I suggest D is “easier” is mainly that IF you go that path you will be doing OK in six months. Not “fine” and definitely not “good” but you will be eating, sleeping and starting to sense that you might get over this hump. In a year you will be OK and maybe even content. In two you will be dating and wondering why you hung on so long.

Remain married and there is no guarantee it will work. On the positive side then IF she jumps on board you take this journey together. But the common theory is the with intense work, MC, IC and commitment it’s a 2 year path. It’s not 2 years of what you are dealing with now; you will be feeling mostly OK once she starts working with you. But it’s still months of pain.

OK – There. I’ve said it. Now back to your marriage…

YOU DON’T HAVE TO DECIDE NOW

In fact – right now you really don’t have any say on whether your marriage can be saved or not. No say other than YOU can say that if certain conditions are met then you would commit to it. If I refer back to the burning house: If you kill the fire in the kitchen you can’t negotiate with the fire in the living room to not burn. Same with your wife: If she doesn’t commit to reconciliation she’s simply that fire in the living room.

So unless and until she commits to reconciliation… Save your valuables and try to kill the fire.

Think right now: What is the worst outcome of the present situation?

If you think it’s losing your wife… well… why not accept she screws around and negotiate that she uses condoms and showers before you have sex.

Sound good?

This would prevent your “worst” fear from coming to fruit.

I venture that the REAL worst outcome of this situation is that your wife is in infidelity.

OK? With me so far?

It’s IMHO an immensely powerful moment when a husband can look at his wayward wife and say;

“I love you to bits and I sincerely wish we could reconcile from the affair. I can accept that I might have to make changes but I will NEVER accept that anything I did or didn’t do can justify your decision to cheat. I truly believe that with hard work we can reconcile but I have also realized one thing: Losing you and our marriage is NOT the worst outcome of these events. The worst outcome is if nothing changes and YOU remain in infidelity and/or in the mentality that this is acceptable.

You are totally free to see OM, to have sex with whomever you want. You don’t have to sneak around with it. You can do ANYTHING you want; BUT NOT AS MY WIFE.

Until and unless you tell me in very clear and concise way that you want to save the marriage, are willing to follow the required path that includes limiting your freedoms and earning my trust again… I am simply assuming that you aren’t in this marriage and will work towards ending our relationship.”

And then you simply do as you say.

No need to discuss divorce or go into the details. In fact avoid that talk altogether. Simply say that there really isn’t any rush but that you are definitely moving on from infidelity. Whether she comes along with you or not is her choice but YOU are not going to be in this situation any longer that you can.

That’s it for now Spurs. It’s a lot to digest.

Thank you to everyone who has responded and supported me. I am starting to realize as time goes that divorce is not the worst thing that can happen to me. Thank you for the insight. My wife has expressed many times in the last few days her guilt and remorse. She wants to work on ourselves first and then our marriage. She admitted to shifting the blame elsewhere and has taken full responsibility for her choice. Ive gone to the doc who has given me some sleeping pills. Wow! Is it ever nice to get some sleep. Appetite is still on and off. Drinking meal replacement drinks is at least giving me some energy. My wife and therapist have encouraged me to take some time off work to try to get the depression under control and try to remove a little bit of stress off my plate. We have had sex a fair bit and my wife has asked me if we could slow down a little bit. She doesnt want it to be an "emotional bandaid". In other words because our sex life is good it lures us into a false sence that everything is ok. Sounds logical to me. Any thoughts? Still waiting for the anger to really set in. Im feeling hurt and betrayed. I say im angry but the anger doesnt surface like i thought it would. Is this something that in a couple of weeks im going to be a volcano and just explode? Any similar experiences out there? Im going to keep updating every couple of days as i find it somewhat therapeutic to write out my thoughts and happenings. I apprieciate everyone that has taken the time to read this and respond.

An update, after asking my wife who knew about what happened she told me only one of her friends that was with her that weekend. Then i see a text message from another cheating bitch on her soccer team, who has been having an affair with another soccer player for over a year, asking how things where after the weekend. Asking if i knew about what happened and how i found out all just stupid gossip. I directly asked if this person knew and my wife told me no before I saw the text messages. Then she says that she must of found out from OM or his friends. This woman is the last person I wanted to know because she will tell everyone and anyone who will listen. Im the exec VP of the soccer leaugue and everyone knows who me and my wife are. Great! Now everywhere I go I get to wonder if people know and I get to face that embarrassment. So apparently while texting this girl yesterday she said that OM has to know that I know and that she was going to take it upon herself to tell OM. She was asking questions like, are you going to hook up again? How much have you guys been talking? We should hang out together? With both OM. After texting with her friend my wife decided to text OM and say that I knew and that if confronted denial wouldnt be his friend. She told me all of this openly but had deleted all of the messages. She wasnt planning on telling me but because I asked she told me the truth. Does this all seem believable? Or am i being careless? I could really use some advice here if anyone has any insight.

Run, Forrest, Run!

As of right now, she is not remorseful and she is not being transparent. You need to tell her there is only room for two people in your marriage and if she can't handle that you can no longer be married to her. You shouldn't be ashamed. You did nothing wrong. She needs to go total no contact and then get into IC to see why she did this. People who usually have affairs are broken. She needs to figure out why she is broken. But you need to lay down the law about what you will put up with and what you will not put up with and do it now. And she should not be deleting anything from her phone. You should have total access to it and all computer accts. Good Luck!

I told her last night to please never contact him again. Which she said she had no problem with. We are both going to IC again tonight to sort our own stuff out. I dont want to be checking her phone all the time when does the trust start to be built again?

You are not going to like what I’m going to say…

I’ve been here on SI since 2005 and have over 5000 posts. I guess about +4500 are here on the JFO. I used to be a cop and somehow the front-line, ER, scene-of-the-crime atmosphere fits me. I’m telling you this to sort of convince you that I just might know what I’m talking about…

I see in your posts so many of the atypical reactions husbands have after d-day. I’m going to deal with some of them:

1) Your wife had an affair. Some years ago she had an inappropriate relationship. I am 100% certain that she intends to not cheat again. I am also 80% certain that she will cheat again. I am 100% certain that without the hard work of reconciliation you will NEVER feel safe when she’s on soccer meets, girl’s nights out, visiting relatives or generally being alone from you.

It’s best compared to an alcoholic that does something terrible (we can associate with this comparison because most of us know (or know of) an alcoholic). Imagine you had to get your wife out of jail for DUI and hitting a police officer. Turns out she went out with her friends, had a few, then a few more… When you bail her out you demand she stop drinking. You point out this isn’t the first time she does something wrong when drunk and that her drinking is negatively impacting your family.

OK – so she commits to sobriety. She is totally 100% committed to being sober. She doesn’t drink for a week, then two. Then all of a sudden the girls are having a night out. She decides to go but only for a short time and not to drink. At the bar she has a club-soda… Then she has a glass of red – simply to hold something so nobody will suspect she isn’t drinking. She might phone home to let you know all is OK. Then she has a sip. Then another (after all – that “just for show” glass cost money). Then maybe one Sex on the Beach with the girls… then a Manhattan… Before you know it your wife is dancing on tabletops and looking for the keys to the car…

It’s the same with untreated infidelity. If you two don’t get down to the very basics and if your wife doesn’t fully acknowledge the problem… You two are going to repeat this again.

2) Your fear of everybody or anybody knowing about this…

First of all: I’m not too much into blasting my personal info to everyone so I can understand your fear. But it definitely is unfounded and this fear is taking away one of your best weapons.

Look – let’s say this does get out. What’s the worst that can happen? Well – if you two reconcile it’ll be the talk of the town until someone else does something more juicy to chew on. Or until a sports star crashes his car while getting sex from a transvestite. Or until the next tax hike. Or…

If you don’t reconcile… Then so what if people know?

To reconcile some key players NEED to know. For example; the OM spouse. The spouse of the other woman that’s been having an affair for a year. The spouse of the friend that knows…

I follow soccer with a passion but it really sounds as if your women misunderstood the concept of putting the balls in the net… It sounds like a hotbed of partying, infidelity and destructive behavior. That won’t stop unless stakeholders are aware. It won’t stop until husbands and boyfriends (and the women that don’t partake) refuse to accept that a soccer-meet is synonymous to orgies.

3) You “asked” her for NC…

So if someone was punching you in the face you would ask them to stop?

OF COURSE she promises to NC. After all – this OM is probably a nobody. BUT without proper handling she won’t get out of infidelity.

Back to the alcoholic. At his low an alcoholic will promise – with 100% true intent – to stop drinking. Without treatment he won’t stick to it.

You don’t “ask” her anything. Go back to my first post on your thread:

It’s IMHO an immensely powerful moment when a husband can look at his wayward wife and say;

“I love you to bits and I sincerely wish we could reconcile from the affair. I can accept that I might have to make changes but I will NEVER accept that anything I did or didn’t do can justify your decision to cheat. I truly believe that with hard work we can reconcile but I have also realized one thing: Losing you and our marriage is NOT the worst outcome of these events. The worst outcome is if nothing changes and YOU remain in infidelity and/or in the mentality that this is acceptable.

You are totally free to see OM, to have sex with whomever you want. You don’t have to sneak around with it. You can do ANYTHING you want; BUT NOT AS MY WIFE.

Until and unless you tell me in very clear and concise way that you want to save the marriage, are willing to follow the required path that includes limiting your freedoms and earning my trust again… I am simply assuming that you aren’t in this marriage and will work towards ending our relationship.”

You need to have your WW write a No Contact letter, that you must read and mail to the OM yourself.

From what you've written, your WW can't be trusted at this time.

Great advice contained here, Bigger. Never thought of it in those terms.

Dude!

You have no kids! Why do you even Think about staying?

She shows almost no remorse. She gives you no transparancey. She still Contacts the OM. She repetedly lies to you.

She is not marriage material. It wouldn't supprice me if she have done this many times Before and will continue to do so if you stay with her.

Divorce her and find yourself Another nice girl to start over with. You are Young. You are gonna live in hell for a long time if you stay and will most certanly be hurt again.

Leave her now!

In the hospital psych ward now for the last two weeks. Suicidal. Feeling very lonely tonight wanted to reach out. Its been hard to find anything update on lately. My wife is totally remorseful now and says she is willing to do anything and everything to make it work. I tried suicide again last night and now she wont see me today. I hurt her too much. Need someone to talk to. So lonely. On so many meds my mind is loopy. Tried to jump out of the car last night while away from hospital. Trying to work on my stuff but cant stop thinking about her and all our stuff.

I'm so glad you're ok spursguy.

Take your time in the hospital to work on you and not focus on her. Your life is far more important than all of this. I know you can't see it now, but things can change so drastically with time. You are going to look back on this with time as a stronger and wiser person. I don't want you to miss all of the happier moments ahead of you because someone didn't treat you with the kindness and love we all deserve. This is YOUR life. Not hers. Don't give it to her.

Glad that you are ok. Like Meta said this is time to focus on you and your healing. Work on your stuff first and you can focus on the other stuff later.

((((Spursguy)))) I am so glad you are reaching out here, but my heart is breaking over the intense pain I read in your latest post.

For now, you focus on just ONE thing exclusively - getting yourself to a better place. YOUR health and well-being is the only priority, ok? Please please please set everything else aside for now. You are worth the time and attention.

Sending you strength and comfort, Spursguy.