SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You say:

to say that I've struggled a bit with creating an Excel spreadsheet, is an understatement. I wanted to do it "right" and have attempted it quite a few times over the past year/year and a half. And I just sit on it because I don't want to disappoint him. And get frustrated because I can't get the thing to work in the way I want

He said in a post on finances:

I don't post much here because as I type things, I reread it and it sounds like very ridiculous things that I would post. So half the time, I type a whole thread and then never post it.

On big issues -- infidelity, finances, marriage -- it's just easier if we work together, as a team. Play to each others' strengths.

betrayedandnumb, if he offered recent help with excel, then why not graciously accept it?

Teamwork. Work together. Not separate silos.

[This message edited by ladies_first at 7:51 AM, June 28th (Friday)]

This will be the last post I put on this thread because I can tell that my wife is getting upset after the prior post. Love you honey. Don't worry about the debt, I will handle it myself now. I'm actually tired of you posting 1/2 the details and then I get shredded on this site. Do me a favor, give all the details when posting, not the parts that you only want the people to know. Love.

^^^^

This bothers me.

Listen to each other:

You:

He has an elaborate template, but I believe he wanted me to make the effort and create one of my own.

Him:

My request is actually very easy and would take about 10 minutes to accomplish.

Sears CC – Balance = $10K - due on the 15th of the month

Kohls’ CC – Balance = $1K - due on the 12th of the month etc …

The real problem is the $12K debt. Don't stumble over the excel spreadsheet.

[This message edited by ladies_first at 7:44 AM, June 28th (Friday)]

As I see it, he doesn't care about either the amount or the method of reporting. (Okay, maybe he was being a little bit jerky about the Excel thing.)

But you two need to get on the same page financially, especially if you are in danger of losing your house.

Okay, I am not the best person when it comes to finances. I could use some help also...

However, are you guy's 4 yrs old? I mean who puts all their business out on a site for all of us to see?

We don't need to know the details and personally I would have been horrifed if my H put the amounts out on a site for everyone to see. Are you trying to embarrassed your wife more? Good Lord.

And for both of you this is not our business. This is between you guys. She was posting because of the excel spreedsheet and felt like a child. I understand you want to help her and if so just look at the statement or call the CC company. It sounds like a control issuse to me also. And she was scared to tell you thinking how much trouble she would get in and how you would be disappionted in her like a child. I know what she did was wrong but I can completely understand being made to feel like a child in trouble. No adult should have to feel that way. Also, maybe you can help her spend more wisely and teach her about what you know of finances instead of holding it over her with an excel spread sheet. And why could you not do it if what she did was not the way that you wanted it? I am only asking or saying all this because of your post.

Now, that being said, I think helping is wonderful just don't treat her like a child or put all the personal info out here for all us to see. How horrifing.

@imagoodwitch....that bothers me too.

^^^^^^^

I second that.

Oh. My debt is 12k. It was higher, but I've been paying more the minimum when I can which has helped. Letting the interest accumulate wasn't smart, but I am being responsible and doing the best I can on a PT salary. Again, there weren't any frivolous expendatures, but things like groceries and gas.

I am confused.

You said on of the cards was a store credit card and I assumed you meant department store.... Was it?

If there is a significant dip in household expenses did your H notice? Did you lie about your handling those on a part time salary?

Do you lie about the cards in year one? Or any other year?

Whether you used your credit cards on household expenses or not, there had to be time when you knew it was building and you kept doing it... For me it would be after a balance over $1000.00 started to linger. when did you start worrying about it?

Why did you let it get so far gone? Why keep charging? It is more than interest charges.

Also, not one purchase in the $12,000 dollars was non household related? All items were needed?

Why not use household income for household charges?

I think you enjoyed not being accountable to him more than you valued making sound financial decisions on your own.

You both have to stop. I don't think you are owning the entire debt picture. You never bought anything for yourself or kids or house that you knew to be out of reach of your normal budget?

And idiot- come one...

Don't worry about the debt, I will handle it myself now.

That is dismissive. If you want the R that you talk about then both of you need to get to work on it. If you have not done the finances together - then this should be the catalyst for real change.

You have a parent child money relationship. BOTH of you need to own your part in it and fix it. That means work and vulnerability. Honesty about what happened and how you both have battled for control(and seem to still be battling). And patience and support for each other in changing the dynamic that, in practice, has been toxic to your marriage.

Being a team really means that. working together and you are both so busy defending your agendas you are just treading water in a standstill.

You have a choice to stay in the cycle or get out.

However, are you guy's 4 yrs old? I mean who puts all their business out on a site for all of us to see?

This is an anonymous site. We talk about affair details, sexual positions, fetishes, our deepest pain and vulnerability here. As well as our kids, dogs, and internal family issues. Why not money?

I find the discussion as real as any other in the marriage. 12-15 K in debt is a hell of a lot different than 2k.

If my H wants to discuss my spending... he can have at it. I don't consider the conversation on money details any more mortifying than the affair details we see here daily.

Discussing it isn't the problem.

I still see a lot of hurt from both of you. I see poor coping issues that are still playing in your lives. Maybe a MC refresher visit could put things into perspective for both of you.

The marriage dynamic being affected by whether or not an appropriate excel spreadsheet has been utilized is troubling. Financial strain is a common result of infidelity and under this circumstance it seems quite heavy handed and frankly punishing to keep harping on getting the accounts into a certain narrowly defined spreadsheet.

I wonder, did H provide Betrayed with an excel spreadsheet of marital money and time spent on he OW?

The fact that they are discussing it here, in detail, is not the problem.

The obvious paternalistic attitude, combined with the petulant child response, is what is concerning.

It is completely reasonable to expect numb to take ownership of the mess she created, and to participate more in the finances. But I think this issue goes way deeper than this and is about feeling inadequate and possibly having that reinforced by I4L in other areas.

In the thread he posted about this a few months ago I asked him if they ever addressed this in MC, and I didn't see an answer.

My guess is that they are both getting something out of the dynamic they are playing out, even if it's just comfort in its familiarity. Until one of them budges, it is not going to change, and nothing that has been posted here indicates there is any movement away from this dynamic occurring.

This financial debt is the immediate problem that needs to be handled here and now. Not the excuses of how or why we got here. The Credit card companies don’t give a hoot about any of that. Do you thing that if I called Kohl’s and told them that I had an affair and that’s my wife spent thousands of dollars in your store, they would say “Oh, that is a shame. Let’s wave the interest charges for the next year to give you a chance to lower your debt with us.” NOOOO! The shareholders would say “we made a profit off of someone else’s problem. How can we do more of that?”

I can tell on some of these posts that some people get it and it is clear that others just don’t get it. This has nothing to do (right now) with how we got here or who is to blame for what. If we keep doing that, then the 12K will become 15K, etc…

There is a clear problem that needs to be fixed and that is the amount owed. It is time to put on the adult pants and handle the problem and come clean. It has gone one for way to long. If you remove my affair from the equation, please have gotten divorced of situations similar to this. Now add back in the affair and this is a really complex, emotional problem.

The lack of information, lies, drib drabs of information should all sound familiar to everyone on this board. It sounds like an affair but just replace the word affair with the word money. After 4 years of not being told the truth, I have to find a way to fix the problem because the current way is not working.

@Lovedyoumore – yes, my wife has the specific time line of the entire affair and all the details. Open and honest is the best way to heal.

@redrock – thank for saying what you did. Why can’t we talk about money when the other topics are far more graphic and disturbing.

This financial debt is the immediate problem that needs to be handled here and now. Not the excuses of how or why we got here. The Credit card companies don’t give a hoot about any of that. Do you thing that if I called Kohl’s and told them that I had an affair and that’s my wife spent thousands of dollars in your store, they would say “Oh, that is a shame. Let’s wave the interest charges for the next year to give you a chance to lower your debt with us.” NOOOO! The shareholders would say “we made a profit off of someone else’s problem. How can we do more of that?”

I completely agree with this. And I see a lot of blameshifting from b&n (I'm sorry, I am really sorry to say that, but I do see it). Just like an affair doesn't make a revenge affair ok, the financial infidelity (and it is, IMO, financial infidelity) is not ok, and it yours to own. It sounds to me like there were spending issues in the past - this is a coping mechanism and it's not healthy.

I don't mean to be rude or offensive. It is probably a personal issue with me because credit card debt scares me and paying interest to me feels exactly like setting money on fire (because that's what it is). I do agree that the debt is the problem, not the how and when. Stop the bleeding first. Deal with the emotional side of it later. And ditto Dave Ramsey.

Good luck guys.

I understand the problem right now is financial. But your attitude towards your affair seems...casual. I looked at your old posts,and found very,very little. So I read your BW's profile.

More than one dday..broken NC...TT...abuse..cops....all of this about 4 years ago.

Your BW has done wrong here...absolutely. She is in the wrong. But Im wondering..where is your remorse over what you did to your BW? In this thread you have publicly shamed her..embarrassed her...basically called her a liar...

Yes...TT sucks. Being lied to sucks. Infidelity of ANY kind sucks.

But your attitude makes it sound as if 'its over,in the past,it no longer affects US anymore."

Your BW is hurting. YOU can forget "the excuse of how or why" you got in this situation. Im guessing its not as easy for your BW.

You two seem to be working against each other. It also looks as if neither of you healed after you blew your marriage apart with your affair.

ETA: I agree with jana..I DO see blameshifting from your BW...but I see no remorse and a "get over it" attitude from you.

[This message edited by confused615 at 12:22 PM, June 28th (Friday)]

Here is a solution I came up with when I had 60,000 dollars' debt. I contacted a reputable debt management program (be careful about choosing, PM if you want details) and within 4-1/2 years I have now almost paid this amount off - I have 6 more payments. From what the debt management company told me, this does not affect your credit, but were you to negotiate the same way they do with your CC companies, it would.

Or, another poster suggested Dave Ramsey and his book - excellent idea. He clearly tells you how to pay down debt yourself.

Some of us just should never use credit cards, that's a fact.

I have a friend who used to work as a credit counselor, I can email her and ask her for recommendations if you would like, B&N.

@confused615 – you say “casual” because you read 3 things that I posted on one thread. This is the main reason I rarely post on this website because those who had an affair have to prove themselves to those who know nothing about them.

So you say casual, ok then let’s look at casual. I went to IC on my own for almost a year and work with a certified therapist where my wife just kept on posting thread here. After a year, I invited my wife into my safe zone with my therapist. To move forward, I need to hear my wife’s point of view and how I devastated her. I went to a group called Menergy, which is a group of only guys that deal with the way that they have treated and currently are treating the women and other people in their lives. I had a face-to-face sit down with my brother-in-law who claimed that he would be there for me if I needed help. I confessed my soul to him. He stabbed me in the back when I needed his help. Oh well. For an entire year, I did not have one argument with my wife. No tension in the house for either her or the kids. I read books on the subject, I prayed to God to help me never to do anything like this and I hope that God can forgive me like my wife has done. I’m constantly beating myself up over what I did and the damage that I caused to my wife, kids, family and friends. My true friends have accepted me back. I try to make every event that my kids are involved in where I did not due that during the affair. I work extra hard at work and at home so my wife and kids can be proud of me and not be that “angry” guy anymore. That is just the tip of the ice burg on what I have been doing since I have come out of the “fog”. The plain and simple fact is that no one will be hard on myself then myself. I will actually never forgive myself for the affair.

I don’t dwell on what I cannot change but I look at what I can change for the present and future. I just will not forget what I did in the past.

So, if you call that casual then yes, I seem to be taking a casual attitude about my affair.

Sears CC – Balance = $10K - due on the 15th of the month

Kohls’ CC – Balance = $1K - due on the 12th of the month

.

Again, there weren't any frivolous expendatures, but things like groceries and gas.

I'm unaware that Sears and Kohls sells gas and groceries?

.

it is considered financial infidelity

^^

Absolutely.

I, too, was guilty of financial infidelity for years before d-day. I had never heard the term until years later. I also was very child like in my spending and defense of.

Mr Lucky is very much like the H here and I was very much like b&n.

This is no longer about a spread sheet - it's become a very desperate need for co-operation between the two of you. Toss the past out the window for right now and come together and work this out. B&n isn't the first BS to do some form of revenge or another, and I do consider this revenge.

Somewhere on this thread b&n admitted to a spending high. I did that too and it was really a form of undiagnosed depression. I would spend, shop, buy and HIDE things. And completely forget all about it ten minutes later. I truly believe this also needs to be addressed as part of the problem going on between the two of you, along with the control issue.

Make a plan; date and time to sit down and go over everything. Conduct it like a business meeting, try and be professional instead of condecending and combative. Work out a reasonable budget for the household needs ie, gas, food, electricity etc. Create an excel or something that is easy and comfortable for b&n to use. Make a plan to sit down once or twice a week to update and look at the budget, keep it as professional as possible.

This whole thread really brought back our past, before d-day and after.

In all of our struggles to get my spending under control and be accountable we discovered the depression and I'm dyslexic in math. I simply can not do Mr Lucky's spread sheet correctly as I put in numbers in all kinds of crazy patterns...

Best of luck to the both of you. I truly believe you can overcome this and truly come together.

[This message edited by Lucky at 1:44 PM, June 28th (Friday)]

.

[This message edited by Lucky at 1:45 PM, June 28th (Friday)]