SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Did any of you start an affair with intentions on destroying your life and the lives around you?

My H was not conscious that he was doing this, but sub consciously it is what he was doing. He sees it now. For him, he feared he was not good enough for me and that sooner or later I too would see that and I would either cheat on him or dump him and in his logic it was better to do it to me first. This stems from his foo and situations his parents put him in and their views/values of him.

Ultimately it does boil down to selfishness IMO, because he selfishly put his own wounds and foo issues ahead of our M and our wellbeing because it was where he was most comfortable, it was easy and second nature and in some respects he did not "think" about it at all, not consciously, it all just "happened" because he chose to not think, to not self assess, to not grow, to not mature, to just "be" who he was at that time.

He says that if I valued him and our relationship I wouldn't have engaged in such destructive behavior.

On one level this is true, but on another, the A has nothing to do with the spouse (see my tag line). It is all about the WS, another reason that points to the simple explanation of selfishness which in its simplicity is also deeply complex and that complexity is different for each person.

My H knew it would destroy our M, hence the secrets for so long and the lies. Why lie and keep secrets if you do not fear on some level the reprecussions you know are logical?

BS, what reason did you finally accept from your WS?

For ME, I do not "accept" any reason. I do not feel I have to in order to R. I believe him, I know it is a process for him and I see him moving through the process, I see and experience the changes so that meets part of my qualifications to R. But I do not accept that he could not have worked out his issues in another way. I firmly believe we do not HAVE to cause such destruction to our selves or those in our lives to grow, mature, etc, there are other ways, so I do not "accept", I was born with this quote in my heart and it colors all I experience: Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them.

I do have empathy for his foo and his pain and the lies he grew up with and his wounds. It is that empathy that allowed R, not accepting a reason from H. During R though there have been countless things I have had to accept to R and still things I probably need to that I have not yet, and we are over 5 years out and I have been working it from the beginning.

This is us and our situation, each M and each infidelity are unique IMO, there may be similarities (lies, selfishness, etc) but the whys behind the similarities are not always the same IMO.

Grace

BS here...all the "whys" i have been given are pretty much a combination in some way of all the ones listed in this thread. but honestly, at the end of the day...not one of them makes me feel any better. he still did that.

i think he if were to say he did it becasue he wanted to, like it, and thought he could get away with it....it might be a little better.

not much though, he still cheated.

BS here. The "why" is something I would love to know. I'm delusional enough to think if I know the "why" that another A won't happen since I will know what to watch for.

Not realistic at all, but I stupidly keep my pink bubble all patched up.

Realistically, I know that many (even most?) A's are not one decision, but a long list of small badly directed ones. It's not up to me to prevent the next A, it's up to WH to have correct boundaries. Having said that, I still ask him "Why?" once a week.

i don't think we're really asking "why" - we want to feel safe again and this is just one of the ways we think we can get there.

You search for and give an answer and its not satisfactory because we still don't feel safe. Is there really an answer that someone can give that would make you say "Oh... that makes sense now, I feel so much better."

The thinking is if we know 'why' you did it then we can avoid it in future.

Truth is a BS may never feel safe again no matter what a WS does. Doesn't stop us wanting it, seeking it, begging for it, demanding it.

IMO this is one of the reasons we obsess about the AP. We attribute all sorts of voodoo magic to them which they simply do not possess.

Yet in a weird way we feel safer knowing our WS only cheated because she she totally used witchcraft on him.

I also think lots of us believe a wayward becomes a wayward once they've had an EA/PA. But t goes waaaaay further back than that. Maybe from childhood. I don't think you can pinpoint a single 'why' - its more like a hornets nest of why's.

IMO cheating is a choice made in an environment of choices/behaviour designed to achieve some toxic mechanism or another .

I think you need to stop searching for a magic why and work through your stuff so that you feel safe to you. That's not to say don't keep exploring it - I mean stop expecting that this one magic 'why' is out there.

Work towards a place where you feel safe to yourself.

I'm still searching for whys but it tend to just find contributing factors so far.

The biggest why I know so far is "because I had little or no concept of the sheer cruelty and destruction it would bring on my BS, heart and soul"

And now I do.......

Possibly not a proper why but definitely a why not in the future.

PL, you sound SO similar to my W, prolly because the stories are so similar. I do believe you are on the right track though, as I sense remorse (not just regret) in your posts.

Do you think affairs are that simple? I believe I was extremely selfish in my actions, but there has to be more then just selfishness, IMHO.

Yeah, I actually do think it breaks down to this. What isn't simple is the narrative... the story that leads up to the A. But in the end, it really comes down to actions, and what allows those actions to be carried out. As a BS, it took me a while to understand and accept her narrative; her perspective leading up to the actions. I've heard her perspective, and can understand her attitude, her dissatisfaction with our relationship, our practically non-existent communication, her childhood issues, etc.... but really, it was just pure selfish action on her part. Nothing else. And I'm OK with that... at least, as OK as any BS can possibly be with "why".

[This message edited by DWBH at 10:43 AM, July 8th (Monday)]

As cold as this sounds, just as the choice to cheat has nothing to do with the BS neither do the "whys". Those are about us. It's not things you run by your spouse to get buy in and just as many BS's say it's impossible to know the pain of betrayal (I think many do, though. Betrayal is a fact of life for some of us), it is pointless for others to label it.

Selfish? Maybe. Sometimes it's a misdirected attempt to finally "stand your ground". A failed attempt to assert yourself. A "that's it"!!!! That goes horrifically wrong. That is all about us. Our job to dig and see how we need to establish some healthier coping skills. Find tools within our stockpile we've badly misused and hone them to laser precision.

If we're honest we see how our wayward thoughts didn't start with our choices to cheat. We can trace them back and see how we tolerated shit from others and ourselves long before these horrible choices presented themselves. The moving lines. The porous boundaries. The distance we may have placed between ourselves and others...or the enmeshment we've established.

Some of us can blend so much with those we're with that actions taken by them are felt by us to such an extent it's as if they set our every mood, thought, feeling. When you've melded to that point "how can you hurt me" is a foreign concept. Hurt you? You're me. It's one in the same isn't it? Dear God.

The opposite (me) can also be true. So detached that hurting another is not really front and center. We've got this so no worries. Assume you've got yourself, or at least you better. I can duck so bet you can too, right? No? Well, better learn or be extremely careful what you toss my way. I'm quite accurate and have stockpiles of ammo.

Neither successful in going through life without amassing casualties including ourselves.

Natural reactions aren't always the best. While I get why a BS would want to ask the WS for answers that's never made sense to me at all. I was the victim of a violent crime. I'd never ask the piece of shit "why". He'd be the very LAST person I'd expect truth from. Never asked my ex why he would just go off. Didn't care. Didn't care what my mother or her friends sick little sheared pin was or how it got that way. I just knew it did and that's pretty much all I needed to know.

That, to me, is why detaching is so vital for the BS especially right after dday. You're at your weakest. In shock. Why roll over and expose your belly to the thing that inflicted the blow? Guard. Present a very small target and lick and nurse your wounds. Make sure you're getting food, water, rest, and most importantly, distance from any more injuries. When you're stronger THEN you can interrogate your enemy. Until then, just watch and heal.

What why would be acceptable anyway? I've found none I've accepted from myself and I've got inside info. I sure wouldn't expect anyone else to buy in.

Deleted due to messing up quotes. Will repost

[This message edited by pizzalover at 3:10 PM, July 18th (Thursday)]

Itsaclimb

I needed (still need!) to hear my WH take responsibility, instead of (what I perceived to be) him making excuses. I needed him to look me in the eye and say "I didn't value you the way I should have, I didn't protect our marriage the way I should have. I put my selfish needs and desires ahead of you, our children and our marriage. I never gave a thought to what I was throwing away, I never even took the time to consider that what I was doing had the potential to destroy our marriage and our lives. I was selfish, I behaved in a disgusting manner and I have no excuses."

Perhaps that is what your BS is actually after?

I agree with what you wanted to hear. It's pretty spot on for how I feel now. I was in complete denial to the consequences of my actions. If I could change what I did I would in a heartbeat.

Heartbroken -

No problem about the t/j!

I told myself I was being very realistic about the likely outcome and the consequences. I knew I'd likely get caught, even if I blustered that I could get away with it. I knew it would mean D. I knew I'd lose friends & his family; I knew mine would be shocked and horrified and disgusted. All of which, as it happened, did come to pass.

What I didn't factor in, and where the "fantasyland" aspect of my A came into play, was how I'd feel about it when it actually happened. I was devastated. Rocked to the core. I came here to SI 2 days after D-day a sniveling, self-pitying snot-nosed mess. It was gross. It all hit me at once: how low I had sunk. How little integrity I had. How little basic pride I had in myself, that I would basically have an affair pretty much out in the open, advertising myself basically as a slut while wearing a wedding ring and blatantly disrespecting the man who put it on my finger. How I was suddenly exposed to every single person in my life as a liar and an adulterer

.

Wow. I couldn't have said it better myself. I really had NO IDEA how far reaching the consequences of this A would go. I was living in a fantasyland and D-day blew my world apart. I realized what I threw away and I'm working every day to try to repair my life and my relationships. I'm devastated daily by the look on my BH's face, hearing the pain he is in. He NEVER deserved this. It's hard not only for him to look at me differently, but all the only people in my life who knew me to be a honest person who wouldn't ever cheat.

Do you believe that reconciliation can't happen?

In my case, it can't because WH is not remorseful. He still blames me for everything. I don't have the experience of having a remorseful spouse who is willing to do the work to heal him/herself and then the marriage. However, I do believe reconciliation is possible if the wayward spouse is remorseful and the betrayed is willing to forgive. (I stuck around for so many years because I know I can forgive, but my WH doesn't want to do the work necessary)

Lemony,

I feel that I am remorseful. I believe that MPB can forgive over time. It will be a long hard road. I hope he's willing to walk hand in hand with me.

...filling the empty hole, trying to seek outside approval, viewing myself through eyes of other people (mostly men). I did have the affair because I wanted to - nobody forced me to do it. I was absolutely selfish. I felt over time very addicted to it, like a drug. While I was in it, I didn't know how to stop it, even though in hindsight, it would have been easy by just revealing it. Now that my world has blown up, I need to start facing the person I've become and it's terrifying. I never wanted to hurt anyone, but obviously that was the only result.

I can relate to this, Pizza. The denial, justification, and rationalization I utilized to say to myself "What you're doing is okay. And you're okay" were off the charts. I'm not sure if I was more lost or more broken. Scarily, epic amounts of both, I'm afraid.

idk if i have anything to contribute to this thread as there have been some great thoughts already posted, however i'm going to throw my two cents in anyway...

As a WS (I am both WS first then BS)....during the time of my As, i had all kinds of "whys" in my head...justifications for my actions..some were why i felt i was entitled to do it...he did this to me, he goes out and doesnt come home, he drinks too much, he doesnt help at home, etc. some were more along the lines of i just didnt think about him..i was always very clear to AP i didnt want to leave my M, didnt want to be resuced and ride off into the sunset...no expectation i would get caught, so my BH would never know, nobody would get hurt, so im having fun, nobodys getting hurt, why not? again i can go on for a long time about issues in my marriage with him with me etc and why i felt justified or at least excused in my behaviors...it hasnt been until i sat down and did the work that i discovered the reason...i was selfish and i wanted to. That is the why, there is no other why. I acted like a spoiled brat that wants what they want when they want it. I didnt think about my H or my kids or my family or my life or any of it, i thought about myself and what spidey wanted to do.

As a BS, i want to know why, why did you let me think we were working on fixing us, we were working it out, you still loved me, why did you let me think all those things when there was another woman in the picture? knowing how devastated and hurt you were when i did it, why did you do the same to me? you could have walked away the hero, everyone wouldve respected your decision to leave your cheating W, but you didnt, you stayed with me, why? so you could become involved with OW? Why not talk to me? why not leave me? why why why?????

I am only about 2 months out from his dday and why is still on my mind a lot. one of the only good things about us both being WS is part of me "gets it" and i have done the work, and what i mean is not in any way that he is justified...he isnt, but what i mean is that i can recognize that no matter how many answers and reasons and apologies my WH gives me, none of them are going to satisfy me. because he was drunk, because he was hurting, because the attention felt nice, while all of those things are probably 100% true...they arent the whys...the why for him is the same as it was for me, because he was being selfish. until he gets that, no reason that he could give me will satisfy me.

my WH has said something similar to an earlier suggestion..."I dont know why I did it, but Im not that person and I will never do it again and I will spend the rest of my life showing you that" ok yes thats nice to hear, its better than hearing him say well yeah i might do it again, but honestly it doesnt do a lot to "fix it" its words...im not that person? I never thought you were that person before, but you were. as was i. so yes i will spend the rest of my life showing my BS that i am not going to behave like that person ever again, but i cant say im not that person anymore..i am still that person. i am still the person who will be overwhelmed, i am still the person that will feel unwanted or unloved if my h behaves in the ways he has in the past, i am still that person that will be flattered that someone else is looking at me or likes me or whatever, i am still that person. What i can say though is that i will never behave like i did before, i will not cross boundaries, i will not lie, i will not sneak, i will not cause harm, i will not disrespect my husband, our marriage, our family. to me thats so much different than im not that person...yes i am.

i dont know if this helped anyone, pizzalover specifically, but it helped me to write it out so maybe thats why i did it...

Badchoices -

I think I got to a lot of whys, and my BW really only accepts one of them.

The one my BW accepts: Simply put, I did it cause I wanted to.

The reasons I have uncovered for me to work on and change myself for the better:

FOO, not knowing how to accept or express true love, not being able to fill that empty hole in my soul, so trying to fill it with outside validation, viewing myself through the eyes of other women, and the list goes on.

All of those reasons set the stage for my decisions leading up to my choice to have the A. All of them made me the selfish person who wanted to have an A instead of just being honest.

I am not sure about your BS, but I know my BW heard my whys as excuses - she understood them, knows that it is great that I understand them, but still felt like I was trying to avoid responsibility. My BW just wanted me to own my decisions and I can understand her logic.

ETA: not sure if this helps you or not.

I feel like I have a lot of the same issues as you - filling the empty hole, trying to seek outside approval, viewing myself through eyes of other people (mostly men). I did have the affair because I wanted to - nobody forced m to do it. I was absolutely selfish. I felt over time very addicted to it, like a drug. While I was in it, I didn't know how to stop it, even though in hindsight, it would have been easy by just revealing it. Now that my world has blown up, I need to start facing the person I've become and it's terrifying. I never wanted to hurt anyone, but obviously that was the only result.

The biggest why I know so far is "because I had little or no concept of the sheer cruelty and destruction it would bring on my BS, heart and soul"

And now I do.......

^^^^

Yes.

I also think lots of us believe a wayward becomes a wayward once they've had an EA/PA. But t goes waaaaay further back than that. Maybe from childhood. I don't think you can pinpoint a single 'why' - its more like a hornets nest of why's.

IMO cheating is a choice made in an environment of choices/behaviour designed to achieve some toxic mechanism or another .

I think you need to stop searching for a magic why and work through your stuff so that you feel safe to you. That's not to say don't keep exploring it - I mean stop expecting that this one magic 'why' is out there.

Work towards a place where you feel safe to yourself.

I want to feel safe and be healthy. I want o examine where my wayward behaviors came from - they've probably been there for a long time.

T/j: 20WrongsVs1

Thank you for that link. It has flipped a switch for me and clarified some things I've been struggling with.

Why would I have stayed in something that clearly could have only ended with mass chaos?

From a BS perspective, I can tell you that many of us are tormented by questions like this.

I asked my wife what the endgame was. What was the happily-ever-after she envisioned? She had no answer. As far as I can tell her thinking never went beyond the next meeting with the AP.

Just wanted you to know that your husband's question is common, I think all of us struggle with questions like that in the early months. Wish you and your husband the best.

I asked my wife what the endgame was. What was the happily-ever-after she envisioned? She had no answer. As far as I can tell her thinking never went beyond the next meeting with the AP.

I knew that the affair would never go anywhere. I didn't want to leave MPB and my AP didn't want to leave his wife. I could never envision a life w/o my BH or a life where my AP and his wife weren't together. So why the fuck did I keep destroying my life and his??? This should have been a deterrent, but for some reason it wasn't. I was hooked and addicted.

 As far as I can tell her thinking never went beyond the next meeting with the AP.

In the moment thinking. It's ironic that concept is mostly a positive one as it limits anxiety, worry, stress. Just live in the moment. It's pushed quite a bit. I don't think it's necessarily healthy nor does it make any sense to me. Life isn't silo's. If I lived in the moment during my childhood I would have killed myself or my mother. It was the understanding that this too shall pass that kept me going.

The "in the moment" removes critical thought as consequences are never. It will all work out.

Pizzalover, you seem stuck in this shame loop on hyperdrive. You made these choices. You split the rail. Was it because a true inventory of your circumstances and how you fit in them was too painful or uncomfortable for you? What happens when you really look at things in your life and take stock?