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I hope you get into see your IC sooner rather than later. You have a lot going on in the life drama department and need somewhere to work it out.

You seem to spend a lot of time rationalizing what your husband is doing/has done and the reasons he may be doing it. Please stop that. There isn't any justification for him to fuck another woman while he is married to you and ignoring the physical aspects of your marriage. His "ego" shouldn't rule over his life (or your life!).

You are right, you cannot control him. He is who he is.

Gently, I would not treat my dog as terrible as your husband treats you. Whether it is behind your back or not (secret texts about "S" and how he wants to fuck her hotness and she wants him too? Is he in high school?), he is treating you badly and you need to face that. He kicks you when you are down, what does he do to build you up? What is he bringing to the table in your relationship?

You say he loves you, you say you are best friends - you don't have to write it out here, but give yourself CONCRETE examples of this. As many of them as you can think of. What are the actual ways he brings positive contributions to your life together?

She punched me one other time when I was 10 or 11 & was emotionally abusive. (Alternated between being neglectful and needy, shoved off parental duties onto me, used me and my sister as pawns both with my father and to display a certain image to the neighborhood/town/school/etc)

Soooo, you just basically married your abusive mother. Might be something to explore in IC. It's completely common, and it's completely common to do that and to stay with the spouse in an effort to get them to heal that childhood pain you have. You should really check out Dr. Harville Hendrix's books, he deals with all these types of FOO issues and how they affect your life choices, like picking a spouse who wants to have sex with everyone but you.

I guess.... I believe deep down inside that everyone's "own" ego is #1 to them -- that when it comes down to it, we have to protect ourselves first. (Right? If a plane crashes you're supposed to put your own oxygen mask on first, that kind of thing.) One of my teachers/mentors in high school really drilled into me that like it or not I have my own self-interests first, and so does everyone else, even if it is just instinctual.

2x4 ahead

Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on this one. You don't have your self-interests first. Your ego is not #1. There is not a single post you've made on SI which suggests you even remotely care about yourself, your ego, your interests, your self-esteem. You're trying very hard to convince us of your mutual love, but we all see right through it. What you have is not love. What you have is not healthy. What you have is not a marriage.

Until you start being honest & facing the nightmare that is your relationship, until you admit that you have serious issues and do something about it like get yourself into counseling, you're going to continue to be miserable. This man is not marriage material. He is all kinds of fucked up, and you're too dysfunctional to admit that you like him for his arm candy value.

You need counseling.

Until you start being honest & facing the nightmare that is your relationship, until you admit that you have serious issues and do something about it like get yourself into counseling, you're going to continue to be miserable. This man is not marriage material. He is all kinds of fucked up, and you're too dysfunctional to admit that you like him for his arm candy value.

I would take the word 'miserable' out of NG's post and put in 'comfortable'. This is your 'normal' This is how your parents taught you, you should be treated.

You have participated in this dynamic. And this relationship, IMO, is abuse.

You say that you love him and that he loves you.

I would ask you to spend some time defining how you each perform this action on each other. Love is a verb. Like brokenblackbird described. Concrete examples.

You deserve better. Everyone on this thread see that except you. What you describe as 'low maintenance', IMO is FOO driven codependence.

Until you start being honest & facing the nightmare that is your relationship, until you admit that you have serious issues and do something about it like get yourself into counseling, you're going to continue to be miserable. This man is not marriage material. He is all kinds of fucked up, and you're too dysfunctional to admit that you like him for his arm candy value.

I've said multiple times that I'm waiting on an appointment with the counselor I went to during my teen years.

(I'm addressing the arm candy thing at the end since it doesn't fit here, but that is frankly hogwash. He's the one who's obsessed with appearances.. not me.)

I vehemently disagree with the notion that I'm staying with him purely for his 'arm candy' appeal. First of all, I'm not that shallow. Secondly, we rarely go in public together, other than errand runs and shopping. It's not like we're going out or to galas or fundraisers or even parties. Additionally, there is no way in hell his good looks alone could make up for the rest of the package. (What I mean is that if he was really truly awful, his good looks wouldn't save him by any means. I don't put that much value on appearance. That's him. Remember?)

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 10:20 PM, October 19th (Saturday)]

The result is that you all get the negative side of things, and, really, * only * the negative side.

A day spent watching movies is a positive that you wrote about. That would be lovely and positive in conjunction with many other things in place also, as a stand alone, that is kind of a very low expectation and not much of a positive. Especially in the face of the disproportionate amount of epic negativity.

Your relationship is very dysfunctional. You like to call it unique. I agree that you seem comfortable in this dynamic, although you say you want help. Then all your rationalizations and justifications kick in. Yes, very co-dependent relationship going on.

Is your WH's hormonal issues being addressed medically? If he has no sex drive, why does he say he wants to fuck "S"? Someone, I feel, is being gaslighted. Have you spoken together with his doctor(s) about his hormonal issues?

To answer your question, yeah, I think you are overreacting, because instead of really focusing on the real issues you are choosing to focus on this particular incident which is nothing but a tempest in a teapot compared to what the real dysfunction, toxicity, abuse and malady of your unique relationship is.

eta: Dr. Phil says that we don't do anything we don't get a payoff from doing so. The payoff doesn't have to be a healthy payoff. Most of the time the payoff is pretty dysfunctional and unhealthy for us, but we are getting a payoff. For instance, some mothers sacrifice in unhealthy ways for their children. They get the payoff by being able to say "I loved my children so much, I gave up my (fill in the blank) for them!" In their minds that makes them the best mother ever. What is your payoff for tolerating your WH's mistreatment of you, mysticpenguin?

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 2:46 PM, July 5th (Friday)]

he says so many negative things about me. I guess that's at least somewhat normal during a fight?

No, that's not how a "fight" between two people who love each other goes. If you read just about any story you can get your hands on, any study done by psychologists about the main indicator of divorce, and you will find that the way he attacks you during a fight is the number one indicator to divorce.

I have been in R with my H for over 5 years now. Even when I hated him and was deep in the anger phase, I never insulted him and demonized him and made him feel worthless. He probably felt worthless on his own because we were fighting about A related stuff which he owns, but it's not because of my words. We've been married for 15 years next month, and I've never demonized him for anything. I respect him, and he respects me. There are constructive ways to fight, and there are destructive ways to fight, and it sounds like your WH is fully in the destructive arena.

And he is NOT being open with you. Telling you anything and then changing the password on his phone every other day is NOT being open. That's just giving you lip service for the things he wants.

And I would venture to say that he's not the arm candy for you, but you are DEFINITELY the arm candy for him. He has you to show off to whomever he wants (you were in the top 5 in a major bikini contest, right?) so he can get the ego stroke that goes with being your spouse, but then he wants to have sex with anyone BUT you to stroke his ego in other ways. This guy is a bottomless pit and you will never be able to fill his void. He needs to fill that for himself, and letting him have sex with everything that crosses his path will only cause that pit to get deeper and deeper with time. You're giving crack to a crack addict and hoping that they will stop smoking on their own.... it won't happen.

I guess I just wanted to vent here today after we argued. I can't exactly call a friend or his mom and be like, "He said I overreact about S!!" No one knows and I want to keep it that way.

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 10:20 PM, October 19th (Saturday)]

Why don't you go out in public together very often?

Does he consider you eye candy?

Is he proud of you and strut like a peacock when you are in public?

Does he hold your hand when you are in public? so everyone knows you are his wife

Any way that you look at it,he has had an affair, and he is going to continue to have affairs, because he can

As far as low testostorone, he could go to a doctor and have that checked,there is medicine he could take so that you too could be sexually satisfied by him, not just him sexually satisfying his latest conquest and himself

Sorry but it really sounds like a one sided relationship, your in the relationship and he does what he wants, you cook you clean and he gets to have sex with whomever he wants, and what do you get out of it, once in a while he will hold your hand

No, that's not how a "fight" between two people who love each other goes. If you read just about any story you can get your hands on, any study done by psychologists about the main indicator of divorce, and you will find that the way he attacks you during a fight is the number one indicator to divorce.

I have been in R with my H for over 5 years now. Even when I hated him and was deep in the anger phase, I never insulted him and demonized him and made him feel worthless. He probably felt worthless on his own because we were fighting about A related stuff which he owns, but it's not because of my words. We've been married for 15 years next month, and I've never demonized him for anything. I respect him, and he respects me. There are constructive ways to fight, and there are destructive ways to fight, and it sounds like your WH is fully in the destructive arena.

That's kind of what I thought. I know I share the blame because I am extremely conflict avoidant (in my personal life).

I will see what I can dig up and see if he can recognize himself. If not I'll point it out for him, but I imagine he will be able to... we had a conversation last week sometime about the major issues in our relationship and I asked, "What do you think you contribute on the negative side?" His attacks during arguments was the first thing out of his mouth. So he's aware this is a problem.

There is improvement even in that, though, because he used to say even worse things to me. It's a progression that I can actually pinpoint and lay out on a timeline. Last summer it was at its worst. There was some actual name-calling and he would just completely shut down and not see reason. In February the name-calling was still there and he would shut down momentarily but just go outside/take a shower/etc for a few minutes to calm down and then come back and be present. Now there is no name-calling and he avoids saying obviously incendiary things (he won't use words that offend me like 'stupid') and he doesn't shut down / tune me out.

I mean when it was really bad he used to give me the silent treatment for days. I still don't know what provoked those silent treatments, and now he doesn't either.

Point being: he has made improvements.

Again we are in a MUTUALLY OPEN RELATIONSHIP :)

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 6:27 PM, October 25th (Friday)]

2x4 coming (and I'm really sorry)

You are dismissing all the advice you are being given.

This is the safest place to vent BUT sweetie, I think your head has to be spinning like a top!!

He doesn't do things to intentionally hurt me I call BS!!!! on this. He DOES TOO do (and say) things intentionally. And he knows it.

You write about your hurts and pains, and I am so sorry you are going thru so much. BUT when we respond you back-peddle as fast as you can.

I am confused as to whether you just need a place for support (which we all need) or if you really want to have objective opinions about changing YOUR life.

He is giving you pittance. Please don't accept that is all you deserve.

Make him accountable. Make him responsible. Don't keep making excuses and justifications for him.

YOU ARE WORTH SO MUCH MORE!! YOU DESERVE SO MUCH MORE!!

Sending hugs.

PS: I am sorry if I come across as a bitch, I don't usually give 2x4's. But my heart just breaks for you. If you were my daughter I would do everything I could to help you.

Why don't you go out in public together very often?

We both work from home.. we go to the gym together and grocery shopping / general shopping but that's about it; I'm not much for the bar scene & he doesn't like outdoorsy stuff. We rent movies to save $$ and mostly eat at home (also for $$)

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 10:21 PM, October 19th (Saturday)]

@still2 - I mean, I don't think I'm back-peddling. He HAS made changes and improvements & I've laid those out (specifically w/r/t this incident when I posted at 3:37). When I was angry earlier I wasn't talking about improvements or positive changes because, well, there have been positive changes but I think the ability to demonize me / vilify me / see everything I do in a negative way is a really, really scary & negative thing :/

[This message edited by mysticpenguin at 10:22 PM, October 19th (Saturday)]

I will see what I can dig up and see if he can recognize himself. If not I'll point it out for him, but I imagine he will be able to... we had a conversation last week sometime about the major issues in our relationship and I asked, "What do you think you contribute on the negative side?" His attacks during arguments was the first thing out of his mouth. So he's aware this is a problem.

You spend far too much energy & thought on him. This is wrong. It is dysfunctional. It is co-dependent.

You need to stop devoting your entire being to him. YOU should be the focus of your energy & thoughts. You cannot change another adult. You do not have that right. You are only in charge of yourself. You are your only responsibility. Even in a marriage, you are still only in charge of yourself.

Even if you were to find the perfect words & deliver them in the perfect way to your husband, you would still be enabling him. STOP! Stop focusing on him. Even if he changed, you would still be screwed up.

You need to think about just you. Just you. Think about yourself. It is not selfish to think about yourself. One of the hardest, highest hurdles I've had to overcome in my journey away from FOO issues and codependency is finally accepting that it is not selfish to take care of myself, think about myself, make myself a priority, and to allow other adults (this included my husband) to live their own lives without me trying to help them.

Until you learn to take care of just yourself you will be miserable. I know this because I was once like you.

Before your counseling appointment are you willing to do some reading? Are you willing to read books like Codependent No More and The New Codependent, both by Melody Beattie?

I'm sure you think I'm a huge bitch who doesn't understand you and is making negative judgments about your husband. I may be a bitch, and for sure I'm making judgments about your husband. But I think I understand you very well. I want for you to learn to understand yourself.

companionship, connection, & emotional intimacy

No, what you have is dysfunction and you feed off of that. You grew up in it, so you feel most comfortable when you are stuck in it. You make excuses because you don't really want the situation to change. Change is scary to you, so you'd rather put up with the crap because that feels best.

Many of us pointing out that you are co-dependent were/are recovering co-dependents. It is insidious. I understand how you feel we don't understand, but thats just the thing, mystic, we understand way too well.

I still think something else is going on here.

Are there any gender identity issues here? It really kind of sounds like to me that he is 'pretending' to be a man, but actually prefers a more 'feminine' role.

Could he be gay? Is he Bi? It just seems like he is trying to hide something from you, and is making you out to be the scapegoat for all of his discontent.

Anyone else getting this vibe?

1) willing to 'give up' sex drive for vanity?

2) doesn't enjoy vaginal sex

3) doesn't appear to want any physical interaction with you what so ever.

4) he appears to be 'using' you as a 'cover'

5) keeps changing passwords even after you have given him 'permission' to cheat

My gut tells me, there is more here than meets the eye.

Anyone else getting this vibe?

I definitely think there's something else going on which has yet to be revealed. But I want Mystic to just concentrate on herself right now. She can't do anything about her husband anyway, right?

She can't do anything about her husband anyway, right?

very true nature girl, I just want to open her eyes to all possible scenarios because I simply hate to see her played the fool in this dickhead's fucked up world any longer than necessary.

[This message edited by painpaingoaway at 5:24 PM, July 5th (Friday)]

Is he having therapy for his BDD and eating disorder? I also have BDD and knew how destructive it was in my relationship so I got help for it- i didn't fuck other people to make myself feel better. Sorry for the 2 x 4 but he should be in therapy and actively working on his issues. I know BDD is horrible and a nightmare but it can get better with therapy.

[This message edited by hobbeskat at 5:48 PM, July 5th (Friday)]