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Okay, so the other night, fWBF went to a bachelor party. I did not want him to go but I never told him he couldn't. He was the best man and had to plan the party and knew they were going to end up at at least a couple strip clubs. I was hoping that once he got to where they were meeting and collected his money for the bus he rented for them that he would decide that he should not be there and he would come home. That did not happen. He texted me that the groom changed his mind and that they were going to a different nearby town that does not have any strip clubs (he thought this would make everything all better, but while I was happy he was not going to be at stripclubs, I was still very disappointed and sad that he could go out and have a good time knowing that I was at home crying and suffering, thinking about what he has done to me-him being out at the bar is a trigger).

He called me to say hi and to tell me where they were when they got to the first bar. Then I texted him about an hour later to see where they were and what they were doing, he texted back, and then I said I was thinking about laying down in bed for a while before I had to go pick him up (this was about 11:oo pm). I never heard another word from him. At quarter after 2 in the morning I texted him again saying what the heck, I thought you were going to stay in contact with me a little better than that, and to see exactly where I needed to pick him up. He said he thought I went to sleep. I was instantly pissed! I don't know how many times I have told him that I can't sleep while he's out at the bar (pre-A too, but of course its worse now).

After getting back home from picking him up, I could not fall asleep, so I got up and wrote him a note telling him about my disappointment and sadness, and telling him that oviously he has no idea how much he has hurt and devestated me if he really thought I was sleeping while he was out at a bachelor party. I wrote about some of the things that I was thinking about while he was out. He tells me he understands what he has done to me, but to me, this incident shows he has no clue.

So Saturday morning after he read the note, he said "I was thinking tonight we could go to bed early and talk about your note that you wrote me". Even though I hate talking about this stuff, I want him to take the initiative to start these conversations, so I was happy that he was doing that (although a bit skeptical because he has said this before and then never says anything).

That night, he never said anything, last night he didn't say anything. So before I went to sleep I asked him to just not say anything about talking later if he's not really going to do it. He said "why? Did I?"

Anyway, then he says that "sometime this week we'll have to set aside a day that we get to bed early and talk". Then he said "uh, I think I need to prepare a little a first though"

What the hell does that mean?? What does he have to prepare for. I'm sure he means prepare what he wants to say-but I have written so many things to him and have gotten no response, and the note the other day was not too complicated. I told him I want to know his feelings and thoughts-why do you have to "prepare" what to say when it's your own feelings and thoughts. I get that you might have to if what you've just heard is fresh, but he has had SO long to think about everything I have written, it makes me think he reads it, but then never thinks about it again.

I don't know if this is just a rant or if I'm expecting some advice or something. I'm just so frustrated with the slow progress and not at all confident that we will even discuss anything A related this week. Weeks keep going by with no discussions of his A, so it feels like I'm getting nowhere.

Sorry you are going through this.

It does sound like he would much rather avoid talking about things. Why does the time need to be planned? Why can't you just start talking about it whenever it comes up? You said you hate talking about it, which is probably making it easier for him not to talk about it. As much as you would like him to start the conversation, it sounds like you are going to have to get it started. It's okay. You can do it. Take a deep breath. Maybe close your eyes and pretend he isn't there listening and just say what you would normally write down. See what happens.

My fWH didn't start out too great in the conversations-about-the-A realm. I started almost all of them for the first several months. He is much better about it now, and will ask me if I want to talk or will bring it up himself if he thinks something is bothering me. It was not something that was natural for him (why would he want to bring up hurt and pain, right?) But over time it became clear to him how much it helped me and it was less painful each time.

I hope this helps you a little.

I was hoping that once he got to where they were meeting and collected his money for the bus he rented for them that he would decide that he should not be there and he would come home.

You had an unvoiced expectation -- and some guys may even say an unrealistic expectation about a bachelor party.

he says that "sometime this week we'll have to set aside a day that we get to bed early and talk". Then he said "uh, I think I need to prepare a little a first though"

Shame is tricky beast, some might say it's a prerequisite for remorse. He had the affair, so this makes him the "bad guy." Nothing wrong with him getting in the right frame of mind to face the consequences of his actions.

Why not let him start the conversation? Can you listen to what he says -- really listen for subtext and hints of remorse -- while he shares with you?

I understand your righteous anger, but it's hard for the WH to face the BW when there's only anger and shame in the room.

I actually WANT him to start the conversation, and he just won't do it. I think it may partly be shame and just not wanting to talk about it, but also I think he wants to make sure he says all the "right" things. He complains that what he says is never good enough.

Last night I went to bed early to read (transcending post infidelity stress disorder) and he came and laid down and finished reading how to help your spouse heal from your affair. Afterwards he asked if there was anything bothering me. I have written down so many things that I wish he would address (and have told him that), but I thought since he doesn't know where to start, I'll start with something that really isn't that huge.

It did not go well. I wasn't satisfied with his standard sorry, I love you, I'll always be here for you. I have told him what I want to hear are his feelings and thoughts-then and now. Then he was pissed because he says nothing is ever good enough for me. That did it. When he says that I feel like he is blaming everything on me, that's one of his reasons for cheating-me making him feel like he wasn't good enough (which I can somewhat see because I do push him to try to be a better person). I told him that and he yelled at me "that IS why I cheated on you". I couldn't take it anymore and left to go for a ride. When I got back, he apoogized, but I just feel so horrible. We can't even talk to each other. He even said (before I left) that this (getting upset) happens every time we talk and that's why he doesn't want to talk to me.

I still believe that if we can get through this things could be really great, I'm just questioning if we can actually do it.

He just texted me that he is sorry that he said some very hurtful things last night and that it is unacceptable and that he needs to be more patient when I am upset. He also said that he just doesn't see how picking at is going to help, but that he will do whatever it takes.

I wish he would go to MC.

I am just starting IC, so maybe she'll help, but I don't see her again until next week.

Oh, and yes, I do listen for any subtexts or hints of shame or remorse, anything really. Those hints are what's gotten me this far.

jost, he doesn't sound remorseful. Putting you in a trigger situation (FTR, I think he had to go to that party, but he could have done waaaay better easing it for you), then promising a conversation, then delaying the promised conversation, then playing dumb about it, then delaying again, then blowing up at you when you finally got around to having a conversation? Saying he doesn't want to talk to you because it always ends with you being upset? Well, no shit, sherlock - if he puts off conversations to fit his timetable or needs...he can't expect that you are going to come into it super-duper-happy go fucking lucky. You took the initiative to calmly write him a letter. If he had addressed it with you in a timely fashion and in a loving way - would you have gotten upset? Blameshifting.

Conversations can be scheduled for folks who need time to process - but they should be scheduled for 30 minutes later, an hour later. "when the kids go to bed." Not days and days later.

He's avoiding this, jost. He'd rather rugsweep. Whatever glimmer he is giving you (like reading a book on affairs) doesn't equate remorse.

Why won't he go to MC? Is he willing to go to IC?