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My H and I were talking the other day and he told me that he still misses OW (my exBFF) from time to time because she was/is the only one he ever felt connected to; that they never fought, she always heard him out and then he'd hear her out and he could be himself around her.

He said things were always hard with us (true) and that he felt like they were "kindred spirits" and things were so easy between them.

When I ask him why he loves me and wants to be with me, he is always at a loss for words and says he can't think off of the top of his head at the time he's being asked.

However, whenever we talk about her, the words just flow and he can go on and on with a smile and even ask me my opinion of her or not want to share any thing about her that would embarrass her even though he's shared things about me with her and others in our circles that have humiliated me greatly.

Ever since hearing he feels like they are kindred spirits, I felt a wall of some sorts go up and feel now as if I can only open myself up but so much without wondering where my marriage is truly headed.

He's doing all the right things outwardly but inwardly, his heart is not there or he bounces back and forth. I don't think he knows what HE really wants...and I feel like I am caught up in a maze that I can't get out of. I get mixed messages and don't really know where he really stands, who he really is, or what he really wants even though I ask him over and over and over again for him to tell me the truth...to tell me what he wants and that I won't be mad...that I will respect what he wants, even if we have to go our separate ways...we can do so cordially.

Next month will be a year since NC and so far that I know, I have no evidence that he has had contact with her.

He says he has respected the NC standard but it seems like it's more bc of my not wanting it more than bc of him wanting to do the right thing. Now, he is a people pleaser...He does have a hard time with telling people no...even with me, especially in the beginning of our marriage and at times still. So, to some degree, I do give him slack in this area (meaning knowing how he is when dealing with others) but not when it comes to dealing with her.

My mom told me a few weeks ago that OW even contacted my sister to ask how I was doing after years of not being interested in me...which says to me that H hasn't really been in touch and she is fishing to see if we are still together or to see if I will reach out so she can wiggle her way back into our lives or I don't know what her thinking is but I didn't tell H she asked for me because I know that will only make her look even more great in his eyes...like, "Oh, look, you cut her off, and she still is concerned about you while you sit here hating her!"

I think H is going through withdrawal at times but at other times, I see he doesn't think his "friendship" with her is a problem even though he knows it is...In his own way, he is still not really owning his A. He will say he is wrong for cheating but will somehow bring his cheating back to something I did to cause him to go that route.

I've tried to connect with him but for some reason, he won't with me. He holds back and always points out something in me as the reason he can't even though it's not me, it's him and he knows it...I think he's afraid of real commitment and really being open with me for fear of being hurt and is why he falls for women he knows he can't have or that he can leave hanging on. He knows I am strong and can live with or without him and I think that intimidates him and is why he won't open up to me fully...but, I have to be me!

I don't really know what I expect to hear from anyone's response to me...I think I just needed to write today.

I'm still dealing with major health issues on top of my marital issues and am trying to take each day one at a time....

[This message edited by h0pe4ul at 8:20 AM, August 2nd (Friday)]

(((hope4ul)))

It doesnt sound as if your h is truly committed to you.

And he is also laying the blame for his a at your feet. That would not be true. It was ultimately his choice.

How long are you past dday? There has been nc in a year?

How do you tolerate it when he goes on and on about her with a smile on his face?

I'm sorry hope4ul, that's so painful and I can see why you would not know where things are at in your marriage.

What are you doing for you?

Focus on yourself, do something for yourself that helps you to feel good about you.

strength Hope4ul

Thank you, Kiki! :)

I'm working on it.

It's not easy to sit there and listen when he talks about her like that but I do because I know to react in anger when he's speaking about her only makes him idolize her more and makes me look worse.

According to the phone records, his email accounts, FB, etc., no contact. Now, I don't know if she is contact with him or he her via his work phone or his work email...I don't have access to those...He tells me no but I really don't know.

As far as what I am doing for me right now: I've been in so much pain the last few months physically that I haven't been able to do too much of anything, let alone anything for myself. I've had some really good days with H too during this time and some really horrible days as well. It's during the horrible days that I've seen and heard some things that's made me really question even more where his heart is really at and makes me want to step back.

Thank you for taking the time to respond! I appreciate it.

Your welcome Hope4ul

I think he's idolized her long enough. I would want to slap his face when he was talking like that.

But thats me. I dont mean to offend.

What of your feelings though? Havent they been abused enough?

Have you done the 180? To strengthen you? I'm sorry for your physical pain too. That has to make it even harder.

It seems almost as if he yearns for her and that would bother me greatly.

I can understand your confusion

Yeah, it does! That's exactly how it seems when he speaks about her. His A with her was emotional and he swears nothing physical happened but I have great doubts....I believe they made a pact to not tell the truth no matter bc I know she told me that if she ever cheated on her H she would never tell him bc he told her if she did she was out...so, she knows she is out if he ever found out...and my H knows he is out if I know...I feel like if they did get physical and then swore that secrecy to each other, this could be the bond that glues them together and is what keeps us apart but without evidence (and I am tired of digging; just don't care to do so anymore)--I feel like I am limbo...I need proof for myself to move on bc I don't want to leave without knowing for sure something did happen but I don't want to live a lie either...I feel stuck!!!

And she used to be my best friend, which sucks more!!!!! My H and best friend!!!! He fails to recognize that part when I tell him....He never puts two and two together....I can't get past how he can love someone who hurt me so much when he says he loves me so much. How can you love someone so much (her) who hurts the one YOU claim to love (me)?

So, I have been getting some physical relief with treatment (thank God!!!!!!!) and am starting to coming out of my own fog and am just starting to think about what I need to do to get back to building myself up...what can I do make me happy again...and really take care of me (inside and outside)...

I'm sorry if my posts are not making sense...a bit groggy from meds...and my thoughts are scrambled/vision blurry.

That's so painful! I have imagined my WH thinking those things, but other than DDay, haven't had to hear about them UNLESS I ASKED!!! That's one of the things I requested of my WH--that he NOT talk about the OW unless it was to answer a question I posed to him.

When we first discussed her, she was practically perfect in every way: she understood him, she accepted him, they were open and honest with each other, she loved sex, she spoke his language (math), she thought he was funny, etc. He was still in the fog, but still I told him then that that was all a fantasy.

They didn't live a real life when they were together. Their A consisted of 7 months of texting and e-mails and phone calls and 4 physical "encounters." She never asked him to pick up milk or bread at the store, to mow the lawn, to clear his place at the table, to help the children with homework, to stop watching TV and help. She ALWAYS shaved her legs (4 times in 6 months was all that was necessary), dressed professionally (he only saw her at work events), was never too tired to be intimate, etc. What was there to argue about? None of us would ever want one of our children to marry someone in that situation. We'd tell them to go on a family vacation with the intended and see how he/she behaves in "REAL LIFE." He wasn't ready to accept my words then, but it has sunk in week after week after week as distance and NC clear his fog.

I also read a book that helped me. The author said, pretty much, that the WH may never change his opinion of the OW--even if he does eventually realize it was a fantasy. He uses a "love bank" analogy and explains that the OW made a lot of deposits into the bank w/o making many withdrawals. That may be where your WS is. Since he has no contact with the OW, withdrawals can't be made and her balance can't drop. But if--my opinion here--he stopped talking about her, stopped hearing himself wax eloquent about her many virtues, the deposits might stop, too.

Talking about her feeds the fantasy. Just stop. If he brings her up, tell him it hurts, tell him you never want to hear "her" name spoken again (my WS's OW has a name similar to mine, so I've rechristened her "Jezebel." He almost visibly winces when I say it, so I use it sparingly. The point is more effective that way.), tell him you can't rebuild your couplehood if there's a third person still in the picture, tell him whatever you want that will make him stop.

If it helps, when I do bring up the OW, with questions or with conversations I start, I can see that even though he will always care for her, he's truly realizing their relationship (they were planning to marry each other) wasn't based in reality and would never have worked.

And, no, I'd never feed him ANY news of her. You're right to have denied him that tidbit about her asking about you.

So the luster CAN wear off if it's "allowed" to die. Does that make sense? Best of luck to you!!!

[This message edited by RippedSoul at 10:18 AM, August 2nd (Friday)]

I am not going to be much help here because reading your initial and subsequent posts just tore at my heart.

I did want to say however that I would have, by this time, either slapped his face, got up and walked out of one of these conversations or told him that I had had enough....if she is that special have her. I couldn't and wouldn't put up with what I am reading he is saying after everything I have been through.

I know every situation is different but this one, wow, it just made me really angry that he has the nerve to even say that. I would personally take it as a sign that it wasn't me he wanted at all.

T

[This message edited by TxsT at 10:25 AM, August 2nd (Friday)]

what Tx said.

I would say, fine, go get your kindred spirit. I'm sure there is someone out there for me too.

Just out of curiosity, does he post or belong to SI? HE's really got a long way to go...

RippedSoul: Yes, your points do make a lot of sense!

The funny thing is that for years, I was the one wanting to talk about her to find out why he liked her and he didn't want to talk about her and now that I am ready to move on, he thinks about her and wants to talk about her. When we fight, he wants to run to her house and confide in her (something he openly confided in me bc he didn't want to keep anything from me)...this is where the confusion comes.

On one hand, I see him trying to be open with me and telling me what's in his head but on the other hand, when I hear what's in his head, it makes me wonder if he really isn't in love with her although he says he doesn't love her that way.

I think he is still in great denial about his feelings for her. He did fall in love with her and told her and her husband about it...they both knew how he felt. Even though I asked him to keep those feelings between us, he told them bc he didn't want anything to hinder their friendship and they all went along with it and continued like no big deal but it hurt me big time and she used his feelings for her against me and things went downhill for me and him ever since.

I can't just go along and be this happy "foursome" like they want me to...It sucks!!! and I don't want to play along.

They both act like they have no feelings for each other but I see it, my sister saw it, but they think we are blind....and I don't know where her husband's head is at...I don't get how he can be OK with another man telling him he is in love with his wife and he be cool with his wife continuing to be cozy with that man...I just don't get it!!!

He wants to call her when he sees a show he likes that he wants to tell her about or if he is going through issues, he doesn't want to talk to me, he wants to talk to his "friend"...what am I, chopped liver????

How can we rebuild if she is always in the picture and this is why I explain to him why she can't be in the picture...there can't be an us as long as she is present...

So, I am done talking about her and hearing he feels they are kindred spirits really killed it for me...it's like it cut something in me for him and even more for her....

I feel as if I am on guard even more now and can't share my heart as openly as I want to with someone I am supposed to be doing that with...

TxsT: Yeah, exactly!!!

When he went NC, I was made to feel like I wasn't his choice even though he let her go. He cut contact with her but his heart was not with me and he let me know it in so many ways. He's with me physically but his heart is with her..and I know that!!! I know that!

And I am reminded of that when he gets angry and tells me what he had to give up out of being controlled or that I don't want him to have friends or whatever....

My heart is ripped out...it's numb...I'm in a crazy place mentally and physically and am trying my best to make the best decisions possible which can be hard to do when medicated....

What I have come to realize from our convo the other day is that no matter what I say, he is going to see her how he does...I can't change that!

I can't make him like or hate her.

I can't make him love or want me.

I can't make him commit or really want to be with me even if he does "love me".

I have felt ashamed, rejected, guilty, beaten down and told that I was the problem all of the years and the reason for his cheating, and I believed those lies...for so many years.

I am at fault for SOME of the problems in our marriage but I have stood my ground as far as not allowing him to blame me for ALL of the probs in our marriage anymore.

I have given up so much (although he tells me I haven't done anything or brought anything to his life).

He uses how I hurt him to justify his hurting me and I see now that anything he does is just ammunition to hold the past over my head although he says that's what I am doing.

I feel like I am losing on every end. She is his "ideal" woman although he says he doesn't want her.

He tells me one thing but I see another and something inside of me is just not at peace. I can't shake this doubt, this uneasiness no matter how hard I try....

No, that, I know of, he is not on SI.

Hope...

I am sorry for the abruptness of my first post to you. I just snapped and triggered at some of the remarks you made about your husband.

Your H sounds like he is still in the throws of ecstasy that A's create...he is still feeding off of the emotional and physical highs an A affords the participants. I am sorry for you, I truly am.

In my situation, even though my WH"s A lasted 4 years, I was lucky that the affects he was feeling from the A had all but disappeared. He no longer got "the high" I call it and it had become just another relationship. Lucky for me because he had already figured out how awful he was to have even done what he did. He was suicidal infact.

I have been lucky enough to see the remorse in his eyes from minute 1.

But this has not stopped me from telling him how utterly selfish he was, and that it would have been far less cruel to have cut me loose at the beginning of the affair then it was for me to now come to grips with what has happened over the last 4 years.

My only advise to you would be....keep going to IC and become strong, love yourself, love your OWN direction. If, after all that, he still has the nerve to say these things....punt his unforgivable ass to the curb. You will make it and he will make a fool of himself when one day he realizes that this other thing he cherishes so much doesn't do anything more for him.

T

Thank you very much, T!!!

Please know I took no offense or even sensed you were being abrupt in your post. Not in any of your responses.

I totally hear you and thank all of you for your feedback.

I need some time to think a lot of things through and work on me and get through my physical state right now and then work on where I need to be regarding everything else.

I really appreciate all of your input and hope that things continue to work out for all of your situations!!!

I think the only reason why H and my eBFF are holding on to each other or even idolize the situation is because possibly I made it seem more than what it really was: meaning, by me showing them all of my pain and being so hurt and wearing it all on my sleeve and she being made the high queen who took another man's heart from his woman and he being drawn by someone who his wife was not, I think I contributed to this whatever it is by giving it much more attention to them both than I should.

I confronted them both big time and her husband to no end but I kind of feel by allowing them to see me hurt at their expense that they kind of enjoy it in some sick way and it drew them closer instead of apart..I think I caused them to cling even more together by my objection to their "friendship" than anything...Not saying I shouldn't have objected but I noticed that they are alike and think alike and attest they think alike...He is right in that they are kindred spirits...so, they pulled together even more in my objection.

I think they like knowing they bring that kind of pain to someone and it's not them in that place makes them feel good...but, what goes around comes around and I know that one day, they will have to face up to what they did one way or another. It may not be through me but one day, they will have to reap for this...

I think the best thing I can do for now is not allow him to see me hurt anymore over this even if I am hurt. I will not bring her up anymore or even acknowledge anything about her even if he does...sadly, she is married to a relative of a close friend of mine and goes to my sister's church. So, I can't escape her either way....wherever I go, she is there! I will prob run into her at functions and will have to deal with it one way or another but I have to not let them see me hurt over this anymore...I have to get to a place where I really don't care anymore and not truly hurt anymore and only I can get to that place.

How? Not sure yet...but, will work on it.

Thank you everyone!!!! :)

My oh my oh my.

h0pe4ul, have you taken a spin through the I Can Relate forum, in the Emotionally Unavailable section? If you haven't already, you may find some answers about why your WH doesn't seem to be connecting with you, and why he fondly remembers the footloose and fancy-free times with his AP.

Things were so easy with his kindred spirit because they are both emotionally stunted, and happily skimmed along the surface with each other - each not demanding too much of the other, except for fake 'emotion' and the occasional smoke up each other's backsides. They are kindred spirits alright, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing.

My WH is definitely emotionally unavailable, conflict avoidant and passive aggressive. Your husband, from your post, sounds like he has these traits as well.

Mentioning that he still misses OW is very passive-aggressive. Sneaky though, huh? He's created a situation where you will probably act negatively to him sharing his "feelings" with you, like you have probably been asking him to. And when you don't like it - and who would? - heck, maybe he should just not share his feelings with you at all if you have such a negative reaction. Intimacy averted. Connection thwarted. And it's your fault. Pffft.

Ugh. Kindred spirits, indeed. I'm sorry he said that to you.

You know, tryingmybest, you are dead on point! He is all three and so is she!!!!

In our friendship, she was the same way with me...he even says why do we have to go so deep, why do I have to be so deep, why can't things just be superficial? He likes relationships like that.

I am not like that at all...

She is like that all the way...everything is fake all the way...

When I tell him he is being fake, he gets mad.

I get the feeling when he talks to me that he is trying to convince me how sincere his feelings are towards me and how kosher his interactions are with her and how they are "just friends" so he can be with her and have my approval without guilt...the both of them want this...but it's not going to happen with my approval and I told him that.

They want me to help them have whatever it is they want to build and I am not going to be like her husband and sit by and co-sign on it! Ain't going down on my watch. I am not the kind of person who turns a blind eye.

I just can't!!!

However, what I have come to realize is that although I hurt deeply inside, at the end of the day, the only person who is missing out and hurting himself more than me is my H because he doesn't know what he is giving up or missing out on by trying to hold on to something superficial. Whatever it is he had with her is not real....he knows that but still chooses to idolize the situation.

Although I am the one hurting right now, at least I am dealing with reality....and sooner or later, I can heal completely because I know what I am dealing with as far as knowing what is going on with hubby's thinking even though I wish we were past this point already.

However, because he is in so much denial, I am concerned that if he doesn't start to really look at himself, he is going to wake up one day and realize he's lost a good thing over something that didn't have to be but that won't be my fault bc I know I have done all I could possibly do at this point, even to my own hurt.

Knowing that sooner or later, that bubble will burst for the both of them gives me comfort but for now, I see myself not wanting to deal with any of these things anymore until I know he is truly committed to me, us, and our future together.

I don't have a desire to talk about the A anymore and only want to look towards the future, especially since I've been ill the last few months and realize how short life really is.

However, I don't want to waste more time trying to figure out where his head is at. I believe by getting healthier and working on me, and moving on with my dreams, he will either step up or complain like in times past and try to find reasons why I shouldn't go further and this time, I will know it's not me but him not wanting to change.

He said things were always hard with us (true) and that he felt like they were "kindred spirits" and things were so easy between them.

When I ask him why he loves me and wants to be with me, he is always at a loss for words and says he can't think off of the top of his head at the time he's being asked.

THIS.

Honestly, I would feel like he was just doing what you told him to. I certainly hope my STBH doesn't follow his old patterns and habits anymore because HE doesn't want to...not just because I am not okay with it.

But that? Being a loss for words about why he loves you?

I can't even imagine. I don't even know what to say.

I am angry for you.

I am offended for you.

I am hurt for you, and sad with you. That has got to be one of the most painful things ever- that he could sit there and go on about how the OW and him got along so well, and this was why he liked her so much...and he doesn't even know why he loves you and wants to be with you.

I love you. *hugs*

Thank you for the love, Beyond Breaking! :). I receive and appreciate it. :). A big hug to you too.

Thank you all for your support during this time. It's giving me great strength.

I don't understand! Is he in IC? If not he should be. He is still in the A fog. I seriously doubt he is NC. You've been I'll, unavailable, he may have taken advantage of that fact and gotten in contact with her again. He needs to make his own friends. He can have the same or similarly "satisfying" relationship with someone if the same gender. IC on the other hand, may provide him with that level of intimacy and a confidant, something he seems to crave...

Does your mom and family know about the EA? I would tell them if I were you so they can set appropriate boundaries with her. Also, could they have told him that she was sniffing around, not knowing that would be detrimental to your M?

If I were you I'd get my WS to a polygraph.