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She says they weren't and is hurt that I don't believe her (though she says she understands completely). She is doing what I asked her to do, but without the "of course, anything you need" enthusiasm I was hoping for. I don't know how to take this.

Enthusiasm may come in time. Actions > words, so it may just be she is wrinkling her nose at the shitpile she created and still has to clean. Good luck man.

she had never worn anything like that for me before. So when I found it I just assumed they were for somebody else. She says they weren't

I think she's full of it.

Okay, they're gone.

Next question, somewhat related to snooping. I've been trying to create a timeline of the events in my head. When, where, how many times and so on. Should I sit down with her and go through it? I know she will do it, but for those who have already done this did you find it helpful or hurtful? I wouldn't call it a burning need to know, but I still find myself going through old emails wondering "is this a day?" Should I wait until I am more sure as to whether I want this or not?

[This message edited by Montreal at 10:07 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)]

Montreal, may I suggest starting a new thread regarding timelines? I, too, would value different input on that issue. I am trying to figure out how much information I want/need without hurting myself further, if that makes sense.

I am glad your WW got rid of the lingerie. And, as someone who has struggled with self-image issues, I can actually relate to her explanation that she had it pre-A and was keeping it as a motivator. That's a very female thing to do, IMHO. That doesn't mean that I don't totally agree that if it bothered you, it needed to go. Just saying that maybe she's not gaslighting you on this particular issue. Just my opinion and I'm a BS too.

Best of luck to you on this crazy rollercoaster.

Montreal - do whatever YOU need to do to regain trust. If that's to recreate a timeline, and then test her on dates, etc., then do it. In my own personal experience, the more I dug around, the more I discovered inconsistencies which proved to me I was not getting the full story. I still don't have it. It's terrible to feel like you have to be a detective on your own spouse, but you need to do whatever it takes for you to feel peace, comfort and security again. Good luck.

Montreal:

You really are very recent from d-day, and "snooping" (in any way, shape or form) is totally normal. After a betrayal like this, even when you are sure that there is nothing else going on, it is human nature to remain wary.

Just after d-day, whenever my WH would leave the house, I would ransack it. I checked every drawer, box, pocket, nook and cranny. I even checked the toilet wells. When he wasn't looking, I went through everything in his wallet. And yes, I checked his underwear. Did I feel a little ashamed and nasty? Sure... but boy did it give me peace of mind when I came up with nothing every time!

You do what you need to do for you right now. That being said, do not obsess. If checking up on your WW becomes a full-time job, it may be time to step back and re-evaluate. Otherwise, what you're going through is perfectly normal.

Just hang in there, and keep a watchful eye. ::hugs::

FYI, my wife and I sat down and did a timeline, and while for me it was helpful and good to get some actual discussion time instead of the usual up to then denial and minimizing, for her it was extremely draining. I was amazed when she had to stop after an hour or two and was wiped out. I gathered some helpful info during that time, but so much she was not able to help me with. I now know this had to do with her shame (the whole cause of the EA in the first place), and as it turned out my snooping provided more info related to dates, times, etc...then she could provide. Some other details did come out, but essentially I constructed the time line based on filling in gaps and best guesses based on what she said. My point is that we as the betrayed want info and we expect full disclosure and complain if it is not forthcoming, and usually rightfully so, however when your spouse is actually remorseful and trying that will not always be reflected in what they can tell you. Another sad fact of the whole scenario is that a shamed spouse coming out of the fog is not going to have the laser focus you will regarding the details. Honestly they would love to forget the whole thing since it all presents them in the worst possible light. Not right, not fair, but an area I believe if you want to make a full recovery you will need to be flexible about as you determine if you can ultimately forgive her for what happened.