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My Ws is still in denial. He miminizes what he did. He says he knows it was wrong but since nothing physical happened it wasn't cheating. He also claims there was nothing emotional there. So this is part of the conversation I found between him and his co-worker. I posted it on another thread but in the replies.

OW: yup you was on my mind

WH:sweet! i was like message and saw it "toni" lol

OW: yup your stalker lol

Then later in the day....

OW: Hey hoe

WS: wouldn't you wanna know? lol

OW: oh i know six reasons lol

WS: what are they?

OW: think

WS: k you lost me lol

OW: you've got one at home, one on the way, and four others! Got it now goob? Your a hoe!

WS: yes ma'am lol

OW: lol hoochy

WS: hey well at least it's not with 6 different women lol

OW: True that's a good thing

WS: I do what i do and i do it well lmao

OW: Yes you do Glad I am old or I may get that way just talking to you lol

WS: ehhhh not old! age is just a number

OW: i have no eggs for your swimmers

WS: all the better lol

j/k

OW: yup lol not your not!

WS: well neither are you lol

OW: nope!!!! lol

WS: omg toni you are awesome!!!

OW: no just bad very bad

WS: still awesome though!!! j/s

OW: eh whatever

WS: it is! don't be that way

OW: okay i was just kidding

WS: better be!

or are you playin hard?

OW: hard is always better j/s

WS: is it? well i think so too but slow and easy!!!

OW: true let me get mine before you get yours

WS: oh yes most definitely!!!

Not included in that conversation I also saw these messages for Ws to her.

"You can talk to me about anything and I mean anything"

"Are we on the same page?"

"Are you sweet on me?"

He still proclaims it was just a moment of poor judgement and they were just joking. It was all out of BOREDOM. Sounds to me like he was trying to get in her pants. He used similar tactics when we started talking. I almost believe him each time he tells me it was nothing because he is such a smooth talker but then I reread the conversation and think he is full of shit! Am I crazy or overreacting? Do you consider this cheating or building up to having an A?

It's extremely inappropriate and painful to read - and not just because of her horrible grammar.

I would hell yes consider this cheating. I told my H I wanted a divorce for less than this.

[This message edited by JanaGreen at 3:55 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)]

Yes, it's cheating, it's an invitation.

This is how it started with COW over 2 years ago. I caught them, it stopped long enough for her to get married and immediately pop a baby out, then upon return from maternity leave, it started again and then went to a PA quickly after.

Yes. Sexting, IMO, is cheating. Had I nipped it back then more forcefully, insisting on counseling, taking it seriously, etc. we wouldn't be here today.

[This message edited by OldCow18 at 3:57 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)]

I wanted to add he deleted these messages but not before I could get screenshots.

Oldcow-I mentioned MC and he agreed to it but then never makes an actual attempt to go. He doesn't have any issues as he says. Oh and I'm just being "silly" or "wiggy" when I bring anything about the conversation up. He tries to make me happy by kissing my butt but nothing more.

Cheating is about deception and betrayal, so yes he did.

He also claims there was nothing emotional there.

Maybe not love, but he was definitely getting great emotional satisfaction from the ego stroking she was giving him....wasn't he?

He still proclaims it was just a moment of poor judgement and they were just joking.

A moment? Is he saying this is the only conversation they had like this one? If so, he is full of shit. You don't say things like "hard is always better" without there being conversations leading up to it. They've been testing each other's boundaries before this and it would have only gotten worse.

Yes!!!!YES!!!! It's cheating. What the hell was he texting something like that if he wasn't trying. I am so glad I never read the 10000's of text's that my WH and OW sent to each other. What it amounts to is immaturity and cheating. Don't let him tell you otherwise. (((HUGS)))

Yes!!!!YES!!!! It's cheating. What the hell was he texting something like that if he wasn't trying. I am so glad I never read the 10000's of text's that my WH and OW sent to each other. What it amounts to is immaturity and cheating. Don't let him tell you otherwise. (((HUGS)))

That is plain out right cheating. He has absolutely no argument for it not being.

Why is he even talking to OW in the first place? If this is a previous OW, then even a simple "Hey!" would be cheating in my book because of NC.

Lieshurt-Yes he says this is the only convo but I know better. This is the only one I found. I had suspicions and started checking his e-mails and facebook messages. I noticed he was deleting messages left and right. So one day I decided to leave his facebook page open all day and this is what I discovered.

Is this a serious question?

Tired-This is the first time with this woman but they have continued contact after the NC, mainly because he just blamed me and never out right told her to leave him alone. "My wife doesn't like this. My wife would appreciate. Out of respect for my wife." So I'm the crazy controlling one keeping him from talking to her.

Well, as long as he's lying you'll never be able to trust that he won't do this again.

I consider that cheating.

Yup, serious question. I KNOW it's cheating but he doesn't consider it cheating. He just says it was "wrong".

Yup, it's cheating or at the very least they were laying the groundwork. I texted my OM in a very similar vein.

As for that being the only convo of this nature, yeah, utter bullshit. They'd had enough of them so there was no doubt they knew what was meant. IMO, if you hadn't caught this they'd have gone PA within weeks if not days.

D9n't let him bullshit you any more. He cheated.

Clarrissa-I totally believe that. From what I did see it escalated quickly. Hell they may have taken it to the PA level. I will never know and neither would admit it if they did. They won't even admit it was anything more than play.

If it's cheating to you, it IS cheating. Case closed.

I told my FWH that one of the boundaries is that he can't dance with another woman except family or be alone in a meal setting or in any way with another woman. He said I should do the same thing. I said, nope cause I've been in many instances where I am alone in those situations and not once did I cheat. So I can be trusted, you can't, hence the boundaries. He agreed. He said he wouldn't consider me cheating if I am alone with another man but he understood why just being alone with a woman would be "cheating" in my view.

Another boundary for my FWS is he can't flirt at all, cept with guys... What you've had up there is flirting. And to me when my FWS flirted with so many women and not once with me during this A, I call that cheating. He should be putting all that effort into me, not another woman.

BTW my FWS had multiple OW both EAs and PAs, and TRUST ME when I say that what you've shown us is cheating and probably either the tip of the iceberg or the start of a formation of one.

CL,

I think you keep asking us whether this is cheating due to the fact that your H is gas lighting you to the max. In other words he is fucking with your mind. Hence the confusion and need for validation. It seems to me that he is unable (or more aptly - unwilling) at this time is to be honest with himself, so therefore being honest and open with you about what is going on for him, is nigh on impossible.

My H had a fb message exchange with an old gf that I now know (and so does he after me relentlessly challenging him on it for a year) which contained declarations of inappropriate longing, as well as giving her a very intimate song that he had said reminded him of me. I knew it was dodgy at the time, but he gas lighted me too.

Don't let this go, because it is dangerous to your marriage. Mostly because if he truly believes this text exchange is OK, then his boundaries are screwed, and probably manifest in other areas of his life as well.

Good luck.

Ophelia-So what do I do? Should I stay or leave? I know he is messing with my mind. I can't think clearly most of the time. Like I said, he talks a good talk and I believe him and then I think about it or remember something then suddenly I am very angry and want to stomp his ass into the ground. I'm a mess. I honestly feel like I am going crazy.

Unless you were looking over his shoulder while he typed every letter, that was cheating.